Fatima-Garabandal-Medjugorje: the Russian link

Discussion in 'Marian Apparitions' started by darrell, Jan 28, 2010.

  1. darrell

    darrell New Member

    Saw this article on SpiritDaily today:
    http://www.spiritdaily.com/medjfatima.htm

    A friend messaged this article to me at the same time:
    http://whatisgarabandal.blogspot.com/2009/12/significant-points-of-great-drama-of.html
     
  2. Mario

    Mario Powers

    Darrell,

    I enjoyed the article very much. A few of the ancillary comments were new to me. First, was the position that the communist revolution (invasion?) would briefly impact Garabandal and then pull back. I also was surprised that Our Lady would comment on human origins. Of course, with over two thousand apparitions, I suppose there was time to cover a variety of topics. :D

    As far as signposts for the approaching Warning, I found the following exerpt reinforced what I already believe:

    The Great Tribulation of Communism: During the first of the “nights of the screams” the young girls (then ages 12 to 13) were shown the “sudden and unexpected” Tribulation of Communism led by Russia that will have an effect on the whole world, and which will happen before the Divine Warning to the entire human race. No one expects this because the world has been lulled into the false belief that Communism has died with the fall of the Berlin Wall and the dissolution of the Soviet Union.

    It seems that the greatest trauma of this Tribulation will be felt in Europe. St. Padre Pio is reported to have said that the great Miracle to occur at Garabandal will be paid for by the blood of the Europeans—oceans of blood. Our Lady told Conchita that Communism will “come back” and that it will also come to Spain, but Spain would not suffer as intensely as the rest of Europe apparently because it had suffered Communism in the 1930’s. Conchita’s Aunt Antonia testified that she heard the girls say, while in ecstacy, that “if we don’t amend our ways, Russia will take possession of the whole world. Our Lady told the girls that during the time this Tribulation the Church would seem to disappear, the Sacraments would be difficult to receive and the Priests would have to go into hiding. [Apparently many Priests will be killed.] When things are so bad that all hope seems lost, then God will send the Warning to all mankind. The Great Miracle will follow within 12 months, and there will be conversions of many nations, including Russia.

    In an interview with a certain, very well-informed party last August, I and those with me were told that the Communists would go into Garabandal during the Tribulation, and that some persons in the village would be killed for their faith. We were also told that the Communist would be in Garabandal only a few days—a week at the most it seems. The well-informed party lives in Europe. He told us that just prior to the “revolution” he was told by Conchita that he should go to Southern Spain or to Portugal, because he would not be able to get to Garabandal (later) from the north. —How will he know when the “revolution” is imminent? It has to do with the Pope going to Moscow and his return to Rome. Issue #5 of the “Garabandal Journal” contains a statement from the German Book, “Garabandal—The Finger of God,” which says: “The pope will go to Russia, to Moscow. As soon as he returns to the Vatican, hostilities will break out in different parts of Europe.”


    The contrast which puzzles me, when comparing your two links, is the current revival of faith which Mr. Brown is highlighting on Spirit Daily vs. the soon-to-be visible resurrection of a Communist regime. :? Any thoughts?

    Safe in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary!
     
  3. darrell

    darrell New Member

    Yes Terry, that was my initial thought also. While the contents of the article would certainly seem to suggest the paving of the way for a visit from the Pope, if the reporting of Russia and her political leader’s conversion to Christianity is accurate, this causes one to wonder at the likelihood of a tribulation of communism led by Russia. On the other hand, this would certainly make it “sudden and unexpected.” However as Michael Brown points out, regular Sunday church attendance is still only around two percent. I suspect a majority of the Russian people are still following the ways of secular humanistic society. And of course, we really don’t know all that goes unreported…

    I was discussing this with my friend “G”, the one who is something of an expert on all things Garabandal, and he resoponded that “…Russia remains somewhat of an enigma. The precise manner in which these prophesies relating to Russia will eventually unfold remains very nebulous.”

    According to this prophecy, which I personally believe, we won’t see the Warning until after the Pope visits Russia. This is the sign I personally watch for, and then events may begin to unfold very rapidly. Unitil then, we remain in a time of grace. I think we will continue to see escalating labor pains, as most recently in Haiti.

    While I no longer spend much time pondering on the secrets and what the future holds, I do think it's prudent to keep all these things Our Lady has given us in mind -- and in our hearts -- as we go through our daily lives. In the article on Garabandal, the author writes, "We are presently at the junction of a major and very dramatic turning point in human history..." This should not cause us any fear or anxiety, rather it should inspire us! Our God has chosen each and every one of us to live in this day, for a time such as this.

    For I know well the plans I have in mind for you, says the LORD, plans for your welfare, not for woe! plans to give you a future full of hope.
    --Jeremiah 29:11
     
  4. Kathleen

    Kathleen New Member

    I love reading this blog- I learn so much and realize how little I know.
    I feel so humble in my lack of knowlege here on the specifics of Mary's apparitions and God's plans. I have to go back to her request to pray, pray, pray and rely on that.
    I was so amazed when Satan's attempt to pull together the world governments into one cohesive power crumbled last December. I was very fearful the months prior and completely convinced it was happening in front of my eyes, but I kept praying. My fears disolved in amazement when I saw the world wide fight against Satan's plans. Thank you God!
    How many of us really don't know what is going to happen but yet we pull together and pray. I think ( I worry about them actually) of the many protestants, convinced there will be tribulation starting 2012 (who knows?), knowing that they need to pray because they see many of the same signs we are picking up on. A great many of them are very stressed out and feeling powerless over here in the US, as I was feeling last fall.
    I now know I am ignorant but not powerless and truly do not feel alone after seeing the power of all of us praying every day. I believe that will carry us through even if we never quite figure out what the devine plan is. I'm sure this will be a rough path but its so worth it.
    Keep writing- I'm learning so much from you all. Thanks for letting me be a part of this conversation. Bless you, Kathleen
     
  5. maryrose

    maryrose Powers

    Kathleen
    I first heard about Garabandal in 1979 and was very inspired by it but this information from Darrell on the significance of the Pope visiting Russia is new to me. There are so many things we dont know but the very important message is 'pray pray pray'. Our lady has said that wars can be prevented and chastisements shortened by our prayers so you are so correct when you say we are not powerless.
    God controls everything but God is controlled by prayer,

    Mary
     
  6. Seán

    Seán New Member

    As far as I know, Russia was consecrated to the Immaculate Heart in 1984, and Sr Lucia affirmed this. Not long afterwards,
    the old Soviet regime collapsed, and Russia became more democratic, with greater freedom of Religions. If Russia is to
    spread communism literally, it surely must not be until the next generation grows up, for the current generation has been
    consecrated. It is hard to see how such a revolution would pan out in the immediate to near future.
     
  7. Kathleen

    Kathleen New Member

    Dear Mary and Sean:
    Thank you for responses. I've been needing more understanding and perspective. Its important to know what we are praying for, so the knowlege I feel I am gaining here helps me target my prayers and feel more effective in my prayer. Its a good thing. Off to pray now. Sweet dreams everyone. God's love, Kath
     
  8. Kathleen

    Kathleen New Member

    Sometimes I think I do things because I'm lead there by the spirit. I don't usually read the New York Times. I went out of my way today to go pick up my Dad's paper from yesterday to bring home and read. (it's a "three dog night" out there, so I'm surprised I got out of my car to do this) Oddly enough several pages in, I found an article that struck me as very "coincidental" considering our notes back and forth this week. In the paper, there is an article about Russia called Uncertainty Grips a Russian Repulic by Ellen Barry. The focus is on their continued struggle with crime and Islamic Fundamentalist supported terrorism. I think the statistic we were reviewing in earlier notes, of a 2% Christian faith base, shows the need for us to continue to focus and pray for them. Their struggle with developing an honest democratic governmental system is failing. While they have been consecrated they are still struggling so much. Pray, pray, pray. Thanks, Kath
     
  9. darrell

    darrell New Member

    Hi Sean, this is correct, and I imagine there would already have been nuclear war otherwise. As for Russia not spreading communism in our generation, I wouldn’t be so sure. If you had asked me a year before the Berlin Wall came down if the Soviet Union would ever break apart, I’m certain I would have said, “Not in our lifetime.” But it happened, and really quite suddenly and unexpectedly. I have no doubt that there are many from the old regime still around, plotting and waiting in shadows until the time is right to make their move and again seize power.

    “…Russia remains somewhat of an enigma. The precise manner in which these prophesies relating to Russia will eventually unfold remains very nebulous.”

    Hi Kathleen, I think the article you referenced has hit on something. In my unit at the hospital where I work, we have quite a few foreign nurses: at least half-a-dozen from the Philippines, one from South Africa, one from New Zealand, three from India, one from the Ukraine and one from Russia. I was talking with Larissa – the nurse from Russia – one night, and perhaps she has given me a tiny bit more insight into this. I asked her about her former life in communist Russia. She stated that one good thing was that everyone was guaranteed care: a place to live, food, and medical care. It may not have been the best, or even that good, but everyone was guaranteed care. Larissa said the downside of this is that is made a lot of lazy people: they didn’t have to work if they didn’t want to because they knew the government would take care of them. I imagine all this idleness led to a lot of the crime. “Idle hands are the devil’s work.” The reason democracy is struggling in Russia is because a successful, thriving democracy is based on individual citizens motivated to work and strive to achieve to make something of their lives.

    Hi Mary. I’ve posted info on the significance of the Pope visiting Russia before, perhaps you just didn’t pick up on it. But as you so astutely stated, the very important thing is that we pray, pray, pray!

    This visit by the Pope is a sign to watch for, IMHO, but not for us to worry or be afraid of what will follow, but rather for us to know we are still in a time of grace, a time to pray, a time to work on our individual missions in this life, and to do our part in spreading the Kingdom of God.
     
  10. Seán

    Seán New Member

    Thanks Darrell and Kathleen, for your responses. It's sad that the essence of Garabandal has waned quite a bit, as there is much more speculation over the
    predictions made there than there is attention put on the message itself. Briefly, Our Lady asked that we pray for priests, make acts of penance, and
    continue converting our hearts to Jesus. But it is the Eucharist and priests that get special focus at Garabandal, which I think is beautiful, like a continuation
    of Fatima.
     
  11. Lee

    Lee Principalities

    I was under the impression that Russia had not been consecrated. Look at this and tell me what you think.


    http://www.catholicapologetics.info/catholicteaching/privaterevelation/russia.htm
     
  12. darrell

    darrell New Member

    Try these hyperlinks:

    1.) http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/FatimaConsecration.htm

    2.) http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/Fatima1984.htm

    3.) http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en.html (Scroll down!)


    Regarding the frequent claim that the "Third Secret" has not been released in its entirety...

    1.) http://www.ewtn.com/library/CURIA/CDFLUCIA.HTM

    2.) http://www.ewtn.com/fatima/apparitions/third_secret/fatima.htm

    3.) http://www.ewtn.com/vexperts/showmessage.asp?number=586774&Pg=Forum3&Pgnu=1&recnu=9


    Regarding the status of Fr. Nicholas Gruner...

    http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/fr_gruner.htm
     
  13. Mario

    Mario Powers

    Lee,

    Thank you for posting the article and prompting me to express what I've never expressed outside my family before.

    First, Our Lady's words to Lucia were clear:

    Twelve years later (June 13, 1929), this request came to the only surviving Fatima seer, Sister Lucy, at Tuy:

    "The moment has come in which God asks the Holy Father to make, and to order that in union with him and at the same time, all the bishops of the world make the consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart."


    It appears Lucia understood the specificity regarding Russia:

    In a 1985 interview, Sister Lucy was asked if the Pope fulfilled the request of Our Lady when he consecrated the world in 1984. Sister Lucy replied:

    "There was no participation of all the bishops, and there was no mention of Russia."

    She was then asked, "So the consecration was not done as requested by Our Lady?" to which she replied:

    "No. Many bishops attached no importance to this act."


    My heart wants so much to believe that the Consecration of 1984 satisfied Mary's requests. Whom am I to question the Vatican? Yet, I do. Why? There are two reasons:

    1) One does not water down a prophecy in order to claim its fulfilment. I do not question the sincerity of Pope John Paul II, but the Consecration of 1984 doesn't single out Russia. Repeatedly through the years, as she did in 1985, Sr. Lucia looked for such specificity as a prove of fulfilment. For her to suddenly change her mind in the letter dated 1989 makes no sense to me. I've believed this, now, for some time.

    2) The prophecies of Garabandal indicate that Russia will be converted by means of the Warning and Miracle. The stirrings of faith in Russia in the last twenty years are significant, but not extraordinary. Therefore, if the prophecy of Garabandal is true, then it would make sense to me that a more probable time for a "by the book" consecration to take place would be after the Russian invasion of Europe, but before the Miracle takes place.

    Such are my thoughts. Either way, Our Lady's Immaculate Heart will triumph. That is why I'm in the midst of completing the request for Five First Saturdays of Reparation. I love Our Mother!

    Safe in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary!
     
  14. Mario

    Mario Powers

    I just noticed Darrell's link showing a letter written by Sister Lucia to Father Robert Fox. Now, there's a priest I trust.

    Oh boy, time for re-evaluation!! :lol: :lol: Thank you, Darrell!

    As I just said in my last post: Either way, Our Lady's Immaculate Heart will triumph. That is why I'm in the midst of completing the request for Five First Saturdays of Reparation. I love Our Mother!

    Safe in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary!
     
  15. padraig

    padraig New Member

    There has been so much written about this and by so many very good and holy , sincere Catholics on both sides of the debate. Over the years pretty well after reading differing interpretations from one side or the other I have tossed and turned form one side to the other depending on the latest article I have read.

    However I tend to settle nowadays on the opinion that the Consecration of Russia and the world to the Immaculate Heart HAS taken place and that the events that removed Communism is in fulfillment of Mary's promise at Fatima.

    A far as getting every single Catholic Bishop to join with the Holy Father in such a Consecration...well I don't think that was ever going to happen. Many Bishops don't really believe in Marian Apparitions or Apparitions generally, including ones such as Lourdes or The Sacred Heart, in fact I suspect a few would have trouble in believing in the Resurrection of Jesus or any of His miracles. Its been like this since the earliest days of the Church ,since I suppose Judas took the silver coins and I think it always will be. some will follow, some will walk the other way and this goes for Catholic Bishops as much as it goes for the rest of us.

    There has been so much written of what Sister Lucia {who will one day be declared a saint , no doubt} thought about the Consecration, some citing one source, some another. But as a follower of Mary I think she would have gone along with what the various Holy Fathers believed that the Consecration has happened.

    Thats only my two cents worth. I suppose everyone will always differ on this as they are of course entitled to.

    As far as the resurgence of Communism is concerned, it is a puzzling one. But I think visionaries take things up in a different way than the rest of us. At the time Our Lady appeared in Garabandal Communism was considered in Catholic circles to be the greatest evil of the times. So when Our Lady informed the girls that 'Communism' might resurge, perhaps thats how the girls took it, but what Our Lady was actually saying was that, 'The greatest evil in the world ' would resurge.

    I think this is the dragon who suffered a mortal blow and yet was reborn as is mentioned in The Book of Revelation. I believe as Darrell says events will centre on Russia after the Holy Fathers visit. The wars centering on Eastern Europe with Russian involvement being central.

    I am not sure if Russia will be the bad guy in all this, however.
     
  16. Kathleen

    Kathleen New Member

    I'm so confused. I guess I'm back to where I was in the begining. Prayer is the answer. I'm too little of a person to make much headway on all of this. I'll probably have to read all of this information over several times to gain an opinion. And, if I knew the answer, what would I do with it?
    My heart does ache for the Russians regardless of the answer here. In all of this, they still struggle to pull out of years and years of corruption. Back to the basics-pray, pray, pray
    Have a lovely evening/night/morning/day :) Kath
     
  17. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I love Padre Pio's saying, Kathleen, 'Pray and don't worry!'

    One thing has taught me a lot in the past. When you type the words, 'Catholic Prophecy' into Google and see the results from the past you see the huge amount of folks who bet their money on huge events at a certain time and were very,very wrong. You see this on loads of different forum...well Ron Conte on 'Catholic Planet' is a good example.

    However Catholic Prophesy is a hobby of mine. I would say Bobby and Darrel are probably right on what they are writing.

    I must go back and try to read Chapter 13 of the Book of Revelation again, I always think this is the key...

    But as you suggest, if all is well with our souls all is well with the world.

     
  18. Seán

    Seán New Member

    Some good books on Catholic Prophecy:

    The Coming Chastisement (Yves Dupont; Tan Books)
    Prophecy for Today (Edward Connor; Tan Books)
    The Secrets Chastisements and Triumph of the Two Hearts (Kelly Bowring; Two Hearts Press)
     
  19. maryrose

    maryrose Powers

    I visited Russia in 1994 with a priest and others to meet with catholics living in Siberia. We visited many cities and did street evangilisation. We met so many people who were quite overwhelmed to receive a little medal of Our Lady or a crucifix. Most were young people who had never received any religous instruction. When travelling by train we met a lot of young men, 16 year olds, who were travelling to some outpost in Siberia. They told us they were members of the red army. We told them we were from the Blue army. They were very open and accepted everything we gave them. There is a great hunger for God in the soul of Russia. I remember meeting a young mother who wept when she was given a picture of Our Lady. I do believe the prophesy that Russia will be the nation that will give God the greatest glory yet. Thinking about these people I really do love them and I realise I havent been praying enough for them. Tomorrow is the 1st Saturday so I will begin again the 1st Saturday devotion especially for Russia.

    Mary
     
  20. Lee

    Lee Principalities

    Sean, I read the Secrets Chastisements and Triumph of the Two Hearts and used a highlighter in yellow, as I read. At about the 3rd chapter I stopped, the entire book was turning yellow! Great book.

    Mary your tale of visiting Russia really touched me. I'll pray for the people of that country as well.
     

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