End Times. Era of Peace. Millenarism.

Discussion in 'The Signs of the Times' started by jerry, Mar 8, 2013.

  1. Jon

    Jon Archangels

    I think its the anxiousness..Maybe that's why I can't seem to let my mind rest...And the state of suffering that sometimes is born out of the presence of evil all around us right now..
     
  2. Jane

    Jane Angels

    This has got to be one of the best post I have read.
    Make no mistake. Garabandal's warning is the very thing which will prevent many people from entering the new era of peace. Those who want to believe in Garabandal, don't want to recognise Jesus is coming in His unfathamable Divine mercy, therefore they won't enter that door of mercy which will take you to the new era of peace. Jesus says this, not me!

    St Faustina said what Satan hates the most, is people knowing of Jesus' mercy. So ofcourse he is going to want to throw us off guard.

    Jimmyiz's thread yesterday on 'St Leonard of Port Maurice' is spot on and a reminder of what Jesus said in the gospel "Two men in the field, one will be taken, one will be left." "Many will be called, but few are chosen."

    No wonder I now stay close to reading only scripture or what the Saints say. Everything else seems to lead us away from God or/and obedience to the church.

    The very thing we all seem to agree on is....
    The signs are here. We can see God is going to act soon.

    Mark, I am with you when you say "St. Faustina has the primary answer to the modern world. “Jesus, I trust in you.”
     
  3. Tina S

    Tina S Guest

    Jane - I doubt you mean this to be offensive to anyone but I thought I should comment here. People that believe in the prophesies of Medjugorje, Garabandal and others that haven't been approved yet by the Church are many times very holy people. Only God will judge who will enter the door of Mercy. I believe that is based on the state of our souls and our love for God which most following prophesies are quite close to God.

    While I don't like throwing quotes around, I'll share this one. Pope Urban VIII was quoted as saying " In cases like this, it is better to believe than not to believe for if you believe and it's proven true you will be happy that you have believed because Our Holy Mother asked it. If you believe and it is proven false you will receive all blessings as if it had been true because you believed it to be true.".

    So, while I believe discernment is important and not to believe every prophet that comes along, there are fruits that cannot be discounted both in Medjugorje and Garbandal. Also, Saint Pio, Mother Teresa and many others have indicated that Garabandal prophesies are, in fact, true. So, I choose to believe like many others and don't feel I will be left on the wrong side of the door of Mercy for having believed.

    Again, I don't believe you have ill intentions but felt I should share that. God Bless!
     
    Jon likes this.
  4. Jane

    Jane Angels

    No. Absolutely no offence or ill intentions to anyone.
    I am just stating what Jesus said to St Faustina.
    I try to state facts and not hearsay to help. As hearsay takes people on the wrong track.
    I was too a believer, so I know both sides to how a person feels. :)

    It must be comforting to have that faith in knowing you won't be left on the wrong side of the door.
    With me, I feel as if I need a lot of work. So I keep on trying to do what the church wants in obedience and just say "Jesus, I trust in You."
     
  5. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    Excellent synopsis Stephen

    How do you interpret [or has the Popes?] the Fatima prophecy within the context of the above sequence. Does it fit or not?

    In the end, my Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me, and she shall be converted, and a period of peace will be granted to the world”.
     
  6. sunburst

    sunburst Powers

    Make no mistake. Garabandal's warning is the very thing which will prevent many people from entering the new era of peace. Those who want to believe in Garabandal, don't want to recognise Jesus is coming in His unfathamable Divine mercy, therefore they won't enter that door of mercy which will take you to the new era of peace. Jesus says this, not me!
    I will speak for myself,..I believe in garabandal!!! Not simply because I "want to" but because of the messages and through everything I have leaned about it that deepen my faith. I am not worried about the warning or the chastisement,..I also believe the Church approved apparitions of Akita that speaks of a purification
    As for Divine Mercy I have been involved in that for years now. Through cenacles of prayer,..and the promoting of Divine Mercy Sunday.
    So for you to say I have not entered into His Mercy which I believe is "now" while there is still time is incorrect. Conversion takes time, so if people don't recognise the time of Mercy while there is still time, ... when that door of Mercy begin's to close it will be to late for many. I believe Jesus in His Mercy is doing everything He can before He has to shut that door.
    Which I believe the greatest act of His Mercy "will" be the warning,..because people are so "far" off, they don't even recognise sin "as" sin anymore. I always love to hear anything that comes out of the Diary,.. Jesus is so Merciful, and He does not want to use His Justice unless He has to. Let us all continue to pray one for the other,...and maybe we can try to come together to try to sort things out;)
     
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  7. stephen

    stephen Angels

    Thanks Garabandal,
    I think for the popes, the key words are "in the end". Nobody ever seems to notice the significance of those words. They place this period of peace as the definitive coming of the kingdom rather than some sort of peaceful truce between nations. Pope John Paul II stated in his Easter 2002 Urbi et Orbi address "
    And you, Risen Lord,
    who have overcome tribulation and death,
    grant us your peace!
    We know that peace will be fully revealed at the end of time,
    when you come in glory. (Pope's emphasis).
    I think personally there has been a too restrictive interpretation of Our Lady's words in Fatima . If you read all the homilies the popes have given there, you discover an eschatological thread running through them all-one that continually points towards the new heaven and new earth after the last judgment. Even Paul VI described the sun miracle as announcing the last judgment scene.
     
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  8. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    Thanks Stephen - time to think and pray:)
     
  9. Jon

    Jon Archangels

    Remember, even the Church slammed the door on Divine Mercy, banning the devotion from 1959 to 1978. That is harsh treatment, even when compared to the "wait and see" disposition on Garabandal.

    Based on your previous post, I think I understand what your reason is for avoiding Garabandal: Fear.

    Not your own fear...But the idea that the Warning is potentially one masterful deception of Satan to be the ultimate "accuser", and point out our sins, so we Fear the face of God, and run from His Mercy, our Lord jesus Christ....Thus subjecting ourselves to the Door of His Justice, because we chose (out of fear) to reject His Mercy.

    I don't know, but I think there are many who would have the opposite feeling. Besides, did not several saints, including Saint Faustina, experience this mini-judgement, or Warning, themselves? And described it for the world to understand?

    Somebody, I'm sure, could point out the parallels in these saints' illumination experiences to the idea of the Warning, and explore the concept a little deeper.
     
    Jane likes this.
  10. SteveD

    SteveD Guest

    I can understand your reading here but it is only an opinion and many do not share it. 'In the end' can mean at the end of the current period of wars, unfaithfulness etc.. A period has a beginning and an end and so is clearly (to me) not the final peace of Christ after His coming which has no end. The Pope's Easter 2002 address was not related to Fatima and so is not directly relevant to an understanding of Our Lady's words there, you may see a link but it is not obvious to me.
    Your interpretation ignores the numerous prophecies relating to civil wars in Europe and invasions from Russia and Islamic countries and the victory of the 'Great King' followed by a period of peace before mankind becomes complacent once again and Anti-Christ appears. (Have you read 'Trial, Tribulation and Triumph'?)
     
    jerry likes this.
  11. stephen

    stephen Angels

    SteveD,
    Yes I have read it and it doesnt follow the magisterium. About those prophecies, do you want to explain why some say this king will be from france Spain etc?
    Pope Benedict XVI: praying for the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart is "equivalent in meaning to praying for the coming of God's Kingdom" "Light of the World" page 166. The kingdom comes as stated by the catechism AFTER the last judgment.
    On the same page Benedict says this about the prayer to hasten the triumph of the Immaculate Heart from his homily at Fatima in 2010 "This statement was not intended-i may be too rationalistic for that- to express any expectation on my part that there is going to be a huge turnaround and that history will suddenly take a totally different course"
    In 1984 he stated fatima's 3rd secret related to the novissimis which is the end times and in a letter to bishop Pavel hnilica in 2000 he said the secret show the persecutions until the end of the world.
    The popes are the ones we can trust to listen too and interpret? why follow every prophecy? St Paul tells us our prophecying is imperfect. The popes have been given to us for a reason
     
  12. Jon

    Jon Archangels

    I agree with you. And those who disagree appear to run the full spectrum:

    I think, if I understand correctly, just within this thread, we now have two different rejections of Garabandal for exactly the opposite reasons:
    1. The Warning: Because it is possibly a heretical idea of Jesus coming in some form other than in Judgement. A potential deception because it is too merciful (<-my words), and is an attempt that can be categorized right along with this, from the Catechism: "The Antichrist's deception already begins to take shape in the world every time the claim is made to realize within history that messianic hope which can only be realized beyond history through the eschatological judgment."
    2. The Warning: Because it is potentially one masterful deception of Satan to be the ultimate "accuser", and point out our sins, so we Fear the face of God (i.e not merciful enough), and run from His Mercy, our Lord Jesus Christ....Thus subjecting ourselves to the Door of His Justice, because we chose (out of fear) to reject His Mercy.
    Please point out if I have misunderstood. If so, I apologize.
     
  13. Jimmyiz

    Jimmyiz Guest

    Very interesting Jon. Your points may have just pointed toward Garabandal being true. We are taught that there must be a right balance of God's mercy and justice. Not leaning too much one way or another. By pointing out both overly weighted arguments you may have landed us right in the middle thus showing a right balance and truth. Maybe just a crazy thought on my part though.
     
  14. SteveD

    SteveD Guest

    You say that you are not a theologian but the book 'Trial, Tribulation and Triumph' has been very warmly endorsed by two prominent theologians. The author accepts that there are discrepancies in the exact background of the 'Great King' provided in different prophecies but such discrepancies litter the history of genuine prophecy through personal interpretation and accretions, incorrect assumptions etc. However the general 'picture' is one of a great monarch of royal blood who will rescue Europe and there are so many such prophecies throughout history that they are difficult to ignore.
    I do not agree that the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart comes at the end as I have explained. Your interpretation is not definitive but an opinion which, with respect, I do not share. Saint Paul encouraged the gift of prophecy within the Church and certainly never limited it to Peter and his successors. Those quoted in the book come mainly from Saints, Blessed and Venerables and so I think that a high degree of confidence in them is not misplaced.
     
  15. stephen

    stephen Angels

    Fine , if you dont agree about the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart.
    Just to clarify-its not my interpretation its the popes-and they know everything there is to know about fatima.
     
  16. Tina S

    Tina S Guest

    I likely wrote the last part poorly. Like you, Jane, I need to continue to grow in faith and pray to God for his abundant Mercy. I just meant that if I don't get to Heaven, it's not going to because I believe the prophesies of Garbandal to be true. Like others, I believe Jesus' great act of Mercy since His dying for us on the cross will be the Warning. I'm not waiting for it though; that would not be wise. I know that it is possible the prophesy isn't true and I should always be ready especially since we never know when our last day will be. I try to live in the hope of being among the blessed who enter Heaven one day. We are all on our own personal road and I believe those that honestly strive to lead holy lives will go to Heaven and it will be through the gifts (sacraments, pope, bishops, priests, scripture, etc.) Jesus left his bride, the Church, and the guidance by the BVM to her earthly children that don't always follow as best as she'd like:(. Praise be to Jesus for the sacrament of confession! The BVM always points to Jesus. Yes, "I trust in Jesus" is an excellent way to live!
     
  17. Jon

    Jon Archangels

    Some have described it this way: God the Father's Love and Mercy manifest themselves to us as Space and Time....respectively. His Love=Space (infinite and limitless) and His Mercy=Time (which has a limit or an end, though it is an ocean of limitlessness until that end).

    Implicit in the idea of the Door of Mercy, the Day of Mercy, the King of Mercy, is also the idea of an End of Mercy = an End of Time.

    THEREFORE, even if this Mercy ultimately manifests in spectacular ways (via events like the Warning and Miracle), the implied End of Mercy likewise implies some form of Judgement (Door of Justice) that probably coincides with events spectacular like the Chastisement (which may be exactly the same event as described in the CCC: "...the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world").

    So at least these ideas CAN be reconciled:
    • You CAN'T have an "end of mercy" without implying "a judgement based on justice"
    • But you CAN have a manifestation of His Mercy as a Divine Intervention, that DOES NOT EQUATE to an earthly "messianic hope" without an "eschatalogical judgement", as long as it comes prior to the End of Mercy (End of Time), and is followed by that End of Mercy.
     
  18. SteveD

    SteveD Guest

    Lucia was the expert on Fatima and she quotes Our Lady as saying:
    1. "In the end my Immaculate Heart will triumph
    2. Russia will be converted
    3. and a period of peace will be granted to the world"
    So, the conversion of Russia follows the triumph, as does the period (note the word period) of peace granted to the world. She is clearly not speaking of the end of the world, when the conversion of an individual nation would have no effect on the world. This period ushers in the end times but is not coincident with them.
     
  19. stephen

    stephen Angels

    Dont make the mistake of thinking the visionary is the intepreter of their visions because they are not. Lucia said that on several occasions "it is not for me to interpret but the pope". That is why Pope Benedict was able so say in the apostolic Letter proclaiming Hildegard of Bingen a Doctor of the Church that even she didnt understand all her revelations. By the way, Hildegard was show the five epochs to come between her time and the end of the world-revelations which have the highest level of approval by Pope Eugene III, an in those epochs there is no era of peace before the end of the world. I asked Cardinal Karl Josef Becker who is a great theologian who has worked in the Congregation for the doctrine of the Faith for years about these era of peace theories before the end and his response? "We can never accept any millennial theories"
    Tell me do you believe in Medjugorje?
     
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  20. Jane

    Jane Angels

    Jon, That is right.:)
    Now I'm not too good with words, I try my best but sometimes things just don't get out like I'd like.

    The problem, isn't my fear at all. If only people can try and see what I am trying to show.
    I know I speak far too much. But at least when I speak, I am speaking with things that the Church has approved now.

    SATAN DOES NOT WANT PEOPLE TO RECOGNISE JESUS COMING IN MERCY.
    And Jon, what you said is what I have been trying to establish. But as soon as I mention anything which might sound against the prophecies of Garabandal, some people get quite defensive as if it is personal. It is not at all personal.

    We, together are trying to get to eternal life. We should help each other, not close down just because someone sees something differently that might make one realise they were wrong.

    St Faustina did see her sins before God. Why? Only God knows why.

    I wish people would want to try and work with me not against me. I am not the one you should be fearing. I am quoting Gospel or Saints. And might I add, not hearsay words of saints.

    Thankyou Jon. Will you try and work with me?
     

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