Dump the Cross

Discussion in 'Spirit of Ireland' started by padraig, Jul 9, 2024.

  1. padraig

    padraig Powers



    ‘A democracy, not a theocracy’ – Cork Council considers scrapping prayers and crucifix

    James Wilson

    09.58 8 Jul 2024

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    Ireland is a “democracy and not a theocracy” – with no place for prayers or religious iconography in our city and county council chambers, a Cork councillor has said.

    The city’s first Social Democrat councillor Pádraig Rice has spoken of his shock and surprise that council meetings still begin with prayer – with a crucifix hanging from the wall.

    Cllr Rice said he believes there is a “time and place” for religious worship and Cork City Council meetings are not that time.

    He has put down a motion calling for a clear separation of Church and State – urging Irish people to “create a modern, pluralist republic of equals”.

    “This is a democracy and not a theocracy,” he told Newstalk Breakfast.

    “The people who voted for us come from all faiths and none, so I think it’s deeply inappropriate that we open our meetings with prayer [and] have religious iconography in the chamber – I just don’t see the need for it.

    “I think it should be stopped; I also think symbols are really important and having symbols of one faith in the chamber and none from all the others, I think sends out a signal.

    “Our city should be about inclusion and not exclusion."

    He noted the “special position” of the Catholic Church was removed from the Constitution in 1972 after a referendum.

    Despite this, Cllr Rice said he feels that with prayers and the crucifix it “sometimes feels like the 1930s in there”.

    When asked if he thought that the crucifix should be retained as a piece of historical architecture, Cllr Rice said he thought that prayers and the crucifix are “all tied up together”.

    “I think it’s all important,” he said.

    “I think if we’re going to stop the prayer, we should probably remove the iconography as well.

    “I think it’s all connected.”

    [​IMG] Cllr Pádraig Rice. Image: Pádraig Rice.
    Cllr Rice noted there has been a “big increase” in people recording in recent censuses that they have no religion and believes society needs to “acknowledge that fact”.

    Tonight, Cork City Council will debate a motion of secularism and, if successful, Cllr Rice suggested the chamber’s crucifix could be placed in storage or given to a religious order.

    You can listen back here:
    Carmel333, Jo M, Mary's child and 3 others like this.
  2. miker

    miker Powers

    Let’s see how that works for them in near future when Islam becomes majority and they try to remove Sharia law. Idiots. If they truly understood Christianity they would know it’s actually all about freedom and choice. God’s a gentleman- He allows us to make choices even stupid ones. Idiots
  3. AED

    AED Powers

    Sigh. I remember Fulton Sheen's talk about the pharisees at the foot of the Cross. " Come down from that Cross and we will believe in You." Sheen points out that ever since the cry has been " take down that Cross" because most people do not want a Savior nailed to a Cross. It is a scandal to them. They do not want suffering. They do not want to contemplate the cost of sin. Nothing has changed. Poor Ireland.
  4. padraig

    padraig Powers

    A big question for me would be, believe in God, don't believe in God what harm is the Cross actually doing hanging on the wall? If you don't believe in God all it is two pieces of wood strapped together. If it makes some people happy it being there, why not just leave it hanging?
    LMF, Clare A, Jason Fernando and 7 others like this.
  5. SteveD

    SteveD Powers

    The NAZI's decided to ban crucifixes in school classrooms but there was so much trouble from Bavarian Catholics that they reversed the instruction. If 'pushback' worked against Hitler, it ought to work against some nonentity of a socialist councillor. Time for the Catholics of Cork to take a stand.
  6. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Well they'll be a long time waiting for the Bishops.
    LMF, Michael_Pio, maryrose and 4 others like this.
  7. Pax Prima

    Pax Prima Archangels

    If this is prophesied chastisement, everything has to unfold. I also like the quote that Brian posted, talking about the mystery of how Godless peoples over history constantly rise to power. These same Godless people always follow a pattern of hating Christianity.

    Here is an amazing thing I learned in the last couple weeks. The seven headed dragon in revelation is satan, but the seven heads represent 7 empires. The seven empires were the Egyptian, Assyrian, Babylonian, Persian Mede, Greek, Roman and one more yet to come. Each of them satan gave the power of his throne here on Earth. So the leaders and followers in these empires are literally under the influence of satan. So it becomes clear why they hate Jesus so much.
  8. padraig

    padraig Powers

    I can't help feeling so sorry for this poor person. Its his soul I would be concerned for. Jesus said that those who denied Him before men He would deny before His Father in heaven.

    It's the same for the poor family of Joe Biden. Mega rich through high level corruption. Mega famous and popular. Tremendous power and all the right connections. Yet what does it all amount to? A mountain of dead bones. Nothing. The saddest thing of all is that they count themselves as Catholic.

    It reminds me of Pope St John Paul when he visited Sicily and condemned the Mafia there. The Italian police secretly recorded a meeting of old Mafia Dons shortly afterwards. The Mafia Dons were outraged that a Pope should condemn them. They considered themselves perfect Catholics.

    The Church has condemned Socialism over and over and over again (and with very good reason). No one seems to take the blind bit of notice.

  9. padraig

    padraig Powers

    The bottom line for me is concern for souls going to hell.

    A poor young Socialist Councillor who wants a Cross taken down.

    The Biden Family.

    Mafia Dons.

    The Vatican.


    I just hate to think of poor, poor, poor souls falling into hell.

    Jo M, LMF, HeavenlyHosts and 7 others like this.
  10. Carmelite

    Carmelite Archangels

    Also, represents the seven deadly sins
  11. PNF

    PNF Archangels

    Pax Prima, I think you are incorrect to say that the "seven headed dragon in revelation is satan." Yes, Satan and the dragon are the same entity in the Apocalypse. But the Beast "with seven heads and ten horns" is not identical to Satan, although it is influenced by Satan and his False Prophet. The fact that the dragon, the Beast and the False Prophet are three separate entities is proven by Apocalypse 16:13 where it says:

    13 And I saw from the mouth of the dragon, and from the mouth of the beast, and from the mouth of the false prophet, three unclean spirits like frogs.​

    These three entities are "persons" in the unholy trinity. The dragon/Satan, the Father of lies, is the evil opposite of God the Father. The False Prophet/Bergoglio is the evil opposite of Jesus Christ. The Beast, the Counterfeit Catholic Church, is the evil opposite of the Holy Spirit,

    Below, I give you food for thought on what the seven-headed Beast is. Ignore if you wish.

    The "Beast from the Sea" in Daniel/Apocalypse 13 is described as having seven "heads" (Greek=kephalas). These refer to the seven different Papal regimes since the Lateran Treaty created the Vatican City-State on June 7, 1929. The seven popes-heads-Peters (Greek=Kephas) from that point are: Pius XI, Pius XII, John XXIII, Paul VI, JPI, JPII, BXVI. Please click on the links of the Greek words to understand that an allusion is being made to the Popes by the use of the word "heads." The quality of these "heads" degenerates over time as described in the figure of the statue of Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel 2, moving from gold to clay over the full period of 100 years. So the degeneration is gradual, but in the end things get very bad. We almost at the end of that process.

    But the Popes are only one part of this governing apparatus, called the Beast. The "Beast from the Sea" refers to the modern, political nation-state aspect of the Vatican, not to its theological role. The ten horns are the final governing authority of this entity, represented by Cardinals who have usurped the power of the final Pope, Benedict XVI. These ten horns are identified as having "diadems," which is a reference to the zucchetto that each Cardinal wears on his head. The Ten Horns began to rule in 2013 with Bergoglio, the usurper, as the leader of the final group. Daniel calls this final leader "the little horn," the eleventh. This "little horn" is called "the False Prophet" and "the Beast from the Earth" and "the eighth [head] that is of the seven but goes to perdition" in the Apocalypse. In the Church Fathers, that final bad guy is referred to as "the Antichrist."

    The sequence of empires discussed in Daniel is an allegorical figure representing the regimes of these different rulers of the Vatican City-State in the final 100 years of the Church, starting in 1929 and ending in 2029. This timeframe begins from the request of Our Lord to Sister Lucia on June 13, 1929. The 100 years is referred to by Our Lord to Sister Lucia in the message of August 1931, where the allusion is made to the King of France (a veiled allusion to a guy named Francis).

    So "the leaders and followers" that are "under the influence of Satan" are the people in the current Vatican, not political nations. The illegitimate "leaders" of that counterfeit of the Catholic Church are called the "ten horns" and the "followers" of that same entity are called the "harlot." The Apocalypse explains what happens to those people. The true Catholic Church, as small remnant, is the immaculate Bride of Christ, whose head Jesus Christ returns to save her.

    The Third fragment of the Secret of Fatima contains an outline of our current situation and starts its narrative "after Pius XII and before 1960." This timeframe is from 1959 until 2029 (the 70 years referred to in Daniel 9). Here is what I believe to be the true Third fragment of the Secret of Fatima (more details here):

    Now I am going to reveal the third fragment of the secret;
    This part is the apostasy in the Church!

    Our Lady showed us a Church, but this was a
    Church of hell, and an individual who I describe as the 'holy
    Father' leading a multitude that was praising the devil,
    but there was a difference from a true holy Father, the gaze,
    this one had the gaze of evil.

    Then we saw the same Pope entering a Church,
    after some moments, but there is no way to describe the
    ugliness of that place, it looked like a gray cement fortress
    with broken angles and windows similar to eyes;
    it had a beak in the roof of the building.

    Next, we raised our eyes to Our Lady who
    said to us: You saw the apostasy in the Church.

    Because the dogma of the faith is not conserved in Rome, its authority
    will be removed and delivered to Fatima. The cathedra [or chair] of Rome will be
    destroyed and a new one built in Fatima.

    In the kingdom of John Paul II the cornerstone of Peter's tomb
    will be removed and transferred to Fatima.

    This letter can be opened by the holy Father, but it must be
    announced after Pius XII and before 1960.

    If 69 weeks after this order is announced, Rome continues its
    abomination, the city will be destroyed.

    Our Lady told us that this is written, [in] Daniel 9:24-25 and Matthew 21:42-44.

    Ang and Michael_Pio like this.
  12. Mario

    Mario Powers

    Our eyes are ultimately always on Christ. Nothing else suffices! Think of the Roman martyrs in the first 100 years or so of the Church, including Peter, Paul, Ignatius and Polycarp!

    Romans 8: 38 For I am sure that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor things present, nor things to come, nor powers, 39 nor height, nor depth, nor anything else in all creation, will be able to separate us from the love of God in Christ Jesus our Lord.
    Jo M, HeavenlyHosts, Sanctus and 2 others like this.
  13. AED

    AED Powers

    When I wasgrowing up my world was immersed in Catholic culture. It was a completely different life. It was easy to be good. Evil ran underground for the most part.

    Now it is unmasked boldly going public. All the cultural institutions have been taken over. Evil is in the very air we breathe. And it is extremely hard to be good. Without God's grace I would say impossible. Thats why it is SO important that intercede for those who have left the faith or never had it. Sometimes it is the only thin string holding others from falling into utter darkness. We cannot afford to be discouraged by prayers that seem to go unanswered. We must plug along in the dark interceding with all our energy and trusting that our gracious God hears us. " No one who hoped in Me was disappointed." ( Isaiah 49)
    Jo M, Byron, Sam and 5 others like this.
  14. Carmelite

    Carmelite Archangels

    Thank you for that. It feels that way sometimes. Many prayers and sacrifices and family members still not converting. Discouragement is the enemy for Christians.
    I see my country parish getting smaller and smaller numbers at Mass and pray God gives me the strength and perseverance to stay faithful to the end, even though at times it’s a lonely journey.
    Jo M, Sam, LMF and 4 others like this.
  15. Mario

    Mario Powers

    Well said, Ann!(y)
    Jo M, Byron, Sam and 4 others like this.
  16. Katfalls

    Katfalls Powers

    Yes I feel our President in the US represents the condition of our country. Old, tired, and collapsing. God did not have to send a punishment to us, we did it to ourselves. Like our President, we are the walking dead. Muddling confused sentences, no direction, Godless blank eyes.
    Clare A, Rain, Jo M and 8 others like this.
  17. Pax Prima

    Pax Prima Archangels

    This is it. I only pay attention to the signs for the coming of Christ. I believe that this was part of the message of Our Lady's novena in Medjugorje. Why it was at night.
    Jo M, Sam, HeavenlyHosts and 3 others like this.
  18. LMF

    LMF Archangels

    "5:2 For yourselves know perfectly that the day of the Lord shall so come as a thief in the night.
    5:3 For when they shall say: Peace and security; then shall sudden destruction come upon them, as the pains upon her that is with child, and they shall not escape.
    5:4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that the day should overtake you as a thief.
    5:5 For all you are the children of light and children of the day: we are not of the night nor of darkness.
    5:6 Therefore, let us not sleep, as others do: but let us watch, and be sober."
    Jo M, Sam, HeavenlyHosts and 4 others like this.
  19. AED

    AED Powers

    You describe our sad condition very well.
    Clare A, Jo M, Sanctus and 3 others like this.
  20. Ang

    Ang Archangels

    Very interesting PNF. What is this last part from?
    Sam likes this.

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