Communion in the Hand and other modern mass practices

Discussion in 'The Sacraments' started by Scolaire Bocht, Aug 16, 2015.

  1. Scolaire Bocht

    Scolaire Bocht Archangels

    One of the really big differences between the current mass and that which was practiced for centuries is the extreme care that was formally taken to ensure that no Holy Communion fragments were lost and also that no unconsecrated hands could touch same. The differences are explained clearly here in this blog comment:

    There are not a few people out there who regard this as a very serious issue, like this writer who views it as the most serious liturgical issue facing the Church today: http://rorate-caeli.blogspot.com/2011/09/communion-handling-gravest-problem.html .

    You see if you think about it it would be a terrible nightmare if it turns out that these old precautions were very necessary and that routinely communicants are now walking on fragments of the Eucharist dropped while people received in the hand. Of course the standard reply to all this, and the reason why Communion in the Hand was introduced, is that it is a return to an earlier, purer, Church practice. But Bishop Athanasius Schneider for one, a Kazahkstan bishop with a doctorate in patristic Church studies, says that is a 'myth' and receiving on the tongue and kneeling is the only proper way: . Meanwhile at the Vatican level Cardinal Burke, at any rate, is of the opinion that Pope Francis prefers that communicants receive kneeling and on the tongue: .

    I mention all this because it is very striking how much these issues, and related matters like the over use of Eucharistic Ministers, crop up in well thought of modern apparitions and messages, in particular:
    Valentina Papagna, from Slovenia living in Sydney:
    http://motheofgod.com/threads/valentina-papagna-messages.6474/
    , Maria Simma from Austria:
    http://motheofgod.com/threads/maria-simma-the-souls-in-purgatory.7586/
    and Mama Rosa of San Damiano in Italy:
    http://www.wisdomandinstruction.com/communion-hand-part-ii/

    Just wondered what peoples thoughts are on this subject?
     
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  2. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

  3. Pray4peace

    Pray4peace Ave Maria

  4. Scolaire Bocht

    Scolaire Bocht Archangels

    A good thread and I notice that the sensus fidei on this forum, to the tune of 85%, is to receive on the tongue.
     
  5. PotatoSack

    PotatoSack Powers

    since that poll where I voted I receive in the hand, I now receive on the tongue. I really made the change by accident almost. I got distracted because the person in the pew in front of me did not go up to recieve. I was surprised and that made me first in line. So I was out of my normal rhythem and I guess I didn't get my folded hands out fast enough because the eucharistic minister just brought the host to my mouth so I thought I better open up quick. I am not even sure if I said Amen. I got back to my pew thinking...wow, that was odd and surprising. I figured that was my sign that I was to receive on the tonue.
     
  6. Joe Crozier

    Joe Crozier Guest

    I wonder if Jesus placed the bread in the mouths of the apostles to feed His sheep. God loves the work of His hands and the Hands of His workers. The hands should surely be clean but its more about clean hearts. Respect and reverence are what matter I think. Personally I kneel and bow to Jesus before accepting the host in the cradle of my hands. It's getting harder. One day my knees will seize and I will get stuck or topple over. God has a wicked sense of humour but only has fun with His friends.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 22, 2015
  7. sunburst

    sunburst Powers

    Something to think about,...
    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]

    Translation problems? Mass celebrated towards the people? Altar girls? Postures?

    No, the greatest and gravest problem of the liturgy of the Latin Church - that is, of the "Ordinary form", or Mass of Paul VI - is one that transcends all this, even it is related to all of them: it is the way the Body of Christ is treated.
    [​IMG]
    No, the greatest and gravest problem of the liturgy of the Latin Church - that is, of the "Ordinary form", or Mass of Paul VI - is one that transcends all this, even it is related to all of them: it is the way the Body of Christ is treated.


    That must be the very first issued tackled by an eventual true "reform of the reform", one that is set not by fleeting example, but by hard law.

    _______________________

    (1) Any human being who has ever had any experience with any edible object based on a milled product knows that crumbling is a natural part of the process of consuming it: loaves, wafers, cookies, biscuits, crackers, tortillas, nachos - it does not matter, fragmentation takes place.

    (2) Catholics believe that the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Our Lord Jesus Christ are truly present in each of the Consecrated Species, and completely in every single and minute fragment of it.

    Because of (1) and (2), the Church was traditionally extremely careful regarding the distribution of Holy Communion. That meant reducing to the minimal imaginable level the possibility that any Fragment of the Body of Christ, even the smallest one, might be profaned or lost - which meant only the celebrant himself touched the Body of Christ, that all Fragments could be held under control on the Altar, and that all gestures in the distribution of Holy Communion by the Priest (or Deacon) to the servers and faithful would mean that no Fragment could ever go unaccounted. (And that same process also took place with the distribution under both Species in the East, in a slightly different evolution, but with the same end result: consecrated hands distributing Holy Communion in such a way to make any loss or spillage unlikely and under strict control.)


    What the liturgical innovations following the Council did was to inculcate Catholics with the notion that the Fragments of the Body of Christ do not matter - and it would be absurd to limit that only to the abhorrent practice of Communion in the hand; no, it is not just a matter of respect, but of Belief that God Himself is entirely present in each single Fragment of the Consecrated species; and Communion in the hand is only one aspect of this. In fact, all those allowances for distribution by people other than those with consecrated hands that are not purified before and after the Distribution of Holy Communion, the use of all kinds of "vessels", and all related matters - happening thousands upon thousands of times every single day around the world - also necessarily lead to abuse. Or, rather, they ARE the abuse.

    All other problems with the New Mass are intimately related with this gravest of problems. If the Sacred Liturgy is the "summit toward which the activity of the Church is directed" (SC, 10), the handling of the Body of Christ by the non-ordained is the pit from which all and every single liturgical abuse ontologically flow. Because if God present in the Most Holy Sacrament is treated as "crumbs" and "dust", then reality vanishes and all that remains, in appearance, are empty and ridiculous symbolisms - and no wonder people do not respect these, change them at will, and expect them to adapt to one's own preferences.
    (September 28, 2011)

    By New Catholic at Sunday, November 05, 2017 [​IMG]
     
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  8. dcana

    dcana Principalities

    The pope in question was Benedict, not Francis. The video is from 2011.
     
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  9. sunburst

    sunburst Powers

     
  10. Shae

    Shae Archangels

    I have been receiving Holy Communion in the hand for many years since I was a child, but after following this thread, I have started receiving on the tongue starting yesterday. It kind of threw me off and I forgot to say Amen yesterday, and today, I only remembered to say Amen at the very last millisecond before it was placed on my tongue, lol. Guess I will just have to stick with it until it becomes 'normal' practice for me.o_O I have to admit, it did feel like a much more reverential way to receive Our Lord, so I am grateful for this thread.
     
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  11. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    I almost never say Amen because I am short
    And I am lining myself up to receive on the tongue so I am watching the Host
    And preparing
    It all happens so quickly
     
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  12. sunburst

    sunburst Powers

    At the Latin Mass there is no Amen required,.. all the priest needs is your tongue :p
     
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  13. SteveD

    SteveD Archangels

    A friend rang me today to tell me that he had come across a video on YouTube showing a consecrated host being set alight. I found it but won't link it here. This is not the only video showing destruction of a consecrated host and that so little fuss is made about this is baffling to me. Surely the Church should officially and loudly protest these sacrileges. I recall the demonstrations arising from threats to burn copies of the Quran. If the Moslems can get so angry about paper being destroyed, surely we should, at least, protest at the Body and Blood of Christ being casually desecrated.

    On the subject of the Eucharist, I came across a defender of PF on a blog who described himself as an 'Ordinary Minister of the Eucharist' at his parish which betrayed his total lack of understanding of his intended role. This person does not understand (as so many Catholics don't) that permission for laypeople to distribute the Sacred Species is limited to extraordinary situations, which is why they are called 'Extraordinary Ministers'. Canon law states: The extraordinary minister's function is to distribute Holy Communion, either within Mass or by taking it to a sick person, when an ordained minister (bishop, priest or deacon) is absent or impeded. Laypeople distribute commonly in situations where there is no absence of an ordained minister, nor is he otherwise impeded. It is done to 'involve the laity' and to 'speed up' distribution in situations in which the priest is easily able to do so unaided and is almost always done in contravention of Canon Law. I urge all members to join the queue for the priest's distribution unless there really is an 'extraordinary' situation and also to receive on the tongue. I have witnessed 'Extraordinary Ministers' giving blessings to those who don't receive with the priest standing beside them and who must be perfectly aware that someone has pretended to undertake a function of which only an ordained priest or deacon is capable. If we can get respect for the Eucharist (and Canon Law) right, we might infect others.
    The nuns taught me, many years ago to make a genuflection properly (completely down on the knee, head down, short prayer, rise) and not a one second slight knee bend, I seem to be one of the few who knows how to do it at my parish.
     
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  14. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    It's not quite as simple as you have stated, I don't think, Steve. There are rules for how many EMHCs there can be according to the size of the congregation. There are rules governing the Cup as well. I am not able to quote you the rules. It probably varies.:(
     
  15. Mario

    Mario Powers

    My pastor serves 2 parishes, one small and one large. There are 5 Holy Masses each weekend. Rarely does he allow the distribution of the Precious Blood. The only time he utilizes Extraordinary Ministers is when my duties at the nursing home prohibit me from assisting at Holy Mass. There have been occasions when some older parishioners are unsteady on their feet that I've talked with them after Holy Mass and recommended they receive on the tongue. I'm surprised at their resistance at times because I know they grew up receiving on the tongue. But generally speaking we usually don't run into problems.

    I also appreciate five things about my pastor: 1) he usually uses the First Eucharistic Prayer; the only other one he might use on weekends is the Fourth Eucharistic Prayer which when combined with its own Preface is a beautiful rendition of St. Basil the Great's Canon. 2) He uses the Confiteor in the penitential rite. 3) He's very reverent and prayerful; especially in the purification of vessels after Holy Communion. 4) He celebrates the TLM once a month at this point in time. 5) He has a deep Marian devotion.

    Fr. Schultz is only 46 yrs old, too!

    Safe Under Mary's Mantle!
     
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  16. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Wonderful!
     
  17. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    For that second video posted by Scolaire Bocht in his opening post, the transcript is as follows:

    "The Holy Father is giving a very clear lesson by his own insistence that the faithful receive Communion kneeling and on the Tongue. He's teaching us something. This is a decision which he obviously made with much thought and for good reasons, and so to me it's the case to Teach the faithful once Again about DUE REVERENCE ON RECEIVING HOLY COMMUNION and to Encourage them to consider a return to that traditional form of Communion KNEELING and Receiving Holy Communion on the TONGUE." -Cardinal Burke

    As sunburst pointed out, Cardinal Burke was referring to Pope Benedict XVI, as the video is from 2011.
     
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  18. Mario

    Mario Powers

    Another great instruction:



    Safe in the Barque of Peter!
     
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  19. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    It makes me wonder how many have been instructed correctly regarding this. I watched the ceremony and Mass for the new Auxiliary Bishop of our Arch Diocese and saw maybe 1 in 15 who received on the tongue. Almost everyone received in the hand. I saw nobody kneel.
    This isn't a matter of false piousness as some would like to project but of reverence for Our Lord and His sacrifice and Love for us.
    My suspicion is that because the gospel being preached today is so heavily weighed toward Mercy 24/7 and secular humanist ideals that a great number simply have no inkling of God's judgement.
     
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  20. DivineMercy

    DivineMercy Archangels

    There may or may not be rules governing the number of emhcs used, but in my experience this is NOT followed. When I was choir director at my old parish we would wonder if we might be able to get a measly 2 verses in during Communion before Fr was finished purifying the vessels.
     

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