Civil War in the Ukraine?

Discussion in 'The Signs of the Times' started by padraig, Jan 20, 2014.

  1. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    Mmm, I came across this article in a newspaper from 2008.

    Russia was accused of distributing passports in Sevastopol as a prelude to military intervention!

    They did the same thing in the breakaway regions of Georgia. Looks like this Annexation was planned well in advance.

    Is it coincidence that an aeroplane went missing at the same time Russia decided to invade? Classic diversionary tactics.

    Some forum members are great researchers on the internet - can someone find out if Russia is giving out passports in other regions??
  2. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    In times past the Black Madonna of Kazan was taken to battlefields to bless Russian armies. So it was flown over the Black Sea (not to bless the winter Olympics) but to bless the military operation in the Crimea.

    This is an excellent article on the vision of Russia under Putin. Please read as it will enlighten you as to to what is really going on.

    Note - the article claims thst Russia is giving out millions of Russian passports in Azerbaijan, Belarus, Ukraine, Latvia., Lithuania, Estonia, Kazakhstan etc.

    The bear has awoken from hibernation and facing no opposition does what she wills. Obama is so weak it makes Putin laugh. And Crimea wss officially brought into Russia on 18th March (note that at Medjugorje our Lady said that date is significant for the world).

    Garabandal prophecy - return of communism and invasion of Europe by Russia. Padraig, your understanding of Putin as an agent of evil is correct. He will get more aggressive for there is no one who will stop him.
  3. Mario

    Mario Powers

    There is a great unfathomable mystery between predestination and free will which are both taught by the Church. Obviously the Lord has no problem juggling the two, but not me!:confused: However, when Jesus and Judas dipped in the dish at the Last Supper simultaneously, I believe repentance was still available to Judas through this expression of fellowship (Jn 13:25-26)!

    Safe in the Flames of the Sacred Heart!
  4. Fatima

    Fatima Guest

    Yes repentance was still available. From the writings of Luisa Piccarreta
    O Jesus, with your tears and with the water with which You washed the feet of the Apostles, let us wash the souls who will receive You. Let us purify their hearts. Let us inflame them; let us shake them free of the dirt that soils them, so that when they receive You, You will find joy in them instead of bitterness.
    But, my affectionate Good, while You are all intent on washing the feet of the Apostles, I look at You, and I see another sorrow which pierces your Most Holy Heart. These Apostles represent all the future sons of the Church. And in each one You see the variety of all the evils that will arise in the Church, each a continuation of your sorrow. In one you see weakness, in another deception; in this one, hypocrisy; in that one, love of interests. In Saint Peter you see the lack of determination, and all the sins of the leaders of the Church. In Saint John you see the sins of your most trustworthy. In Judas you see all the apostate, with the series of all the grave evils which are caused by them. Ah, your Heart is so flooded with sorrow and Love that You cannot bear it, and You pause at the feet of each Apostle. Your tears flow, as you pray and atone for each of these offenses, asking for the remedy corresponding to each need.
    My gentle love, while you continue to wash the feet of the apostles, you now come to Judas' feet. I hear your labored breathing; You not only cry —You sob. And, while You wash those feet, You kiss them. You press them to your Heart. Unable to speak—your voice choked by weeping—You look at him through eyes swollen with tears. With your Heart, You say to him:
    My son! I beg you, with the voice of my tears, do not go to Hell! Give Me your soul. I lie prostrate at your feet, and I am begging you… Tell Me what you want. What do you ask of Me? I will give you everything —only do not join the lost. I am your God —spare Me this pain!”

    And you again press those feet to your heart. It aches, seeing Judas fixed in his hardness. Your suffocating love almost causes you to faint. My Heart and my Life, let me hold You in my arms. I understand that these are the loving ways that You use with each hardened sinner. Please, my heart, as I share your sorrow and atone for the sins you receive from the souls that obstinately refuse to convert, I pray you to let us travel around the earth together. Wherever there are obstinate sinners, let us give them your tears to soften them, your kisses and your embraces of love to chain them to you so they cannot escape. I want to do this to console you for your pain at the loss of Judas.
  5. concernedforusa

    concernedforusa New Member

    To Garabandal:

    You wrote:
    When I read your comment, I was shocked that you called Our Lady of Kazan as the “Black Madonna of Kazan”. Then I realized that you picked this name “Black” Madonna from an article on a Muslim website. Muslims hate Christianity. They would not hesitate to call Our Lady of Fatima as “Black” Madonna. But, maybe you needed to exercise more discretion and not just to parrot Muslims’ labels.

    Our Lady of Kazan is the holiest icon of the Russian Orthodox Church.

    Below is a link with images of our Lady of Kazan. You can see with your own eyes that there is nothing “Black” about this icon: of kazan&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ei=xjYuU82kPLCs0AH2koDADg&ved=0CDUQsAQ&biw=1366&bih=565

    Below is an excerpt from an article:

    The icon of Our Lady of Kazan disappeared in 1917. Many years later the Vatican came to possession of this the holiest icon of the Russia. In 2004, Pope John II presented this icon to the Russian people.

    Referring to some old article, written in 2008, you wrote:
    Let me ask you a question: If Russians offered you the Russian passport, would you accept it? I don’t think so. The same is with Ukrainian people – they feel themselves Ukrainians, they live in Ukraine, and they don’t need Russian passports.

    Only people who are actually ethnic Russians may accept Russian passports. But, the problem is that, if they live, for example, in Ukraine and they have the Russian passports, they cannot claim that they need Russian protection because of fear for their lives. They will be offered to leave Ukraine and go in Russia – they are the Russian citizens after all! Only Russian people, who live in Ukraine, who may feel themselves in danger, and who do not have the Russian passports – only those people may cry out for Russian troops to come and protect them. So, this scenario with giving Russian passports will not work at all!

    You wrote:

    You referred the readers to the same Islamic website and to the same article that labeled the holiest icon of Russia as the “Black Madonna”. Let me tell you that Muslims “love” Christian Russia as much as they “love” any Christian country in the West. It is very regrettable that you find Muslim websites reliable when they talk about the Christians or Christian countries.

    You wrote:
    You created a “boogey-man” in your own imagination and you scared yourself with your own imaginary “boogey-man”.

    You wrote:
    That is precisely why you stick to your imaginary “boogey-man”, not matter what. You rely on the prophecy that is neither in the OT, nor in the NT. You can rely with 100% assurance ONLY on the Prophecies in the OT and in the NT and on the Words of Our Lady of Fatima. But, I know that nothing can change your mind.

    God Bless!

    Last edited: Mar 23, 2014
  6. jerry

    jerry Guest

    concernedforusa: please look carefully at my avatar image.
    Do you know what it is called?
  7. jerry

    jerry Guest


    The Virgin of Kazan is one of Russia’s most sacred relics. The icon was discovered on July 8, 1579, in the city of Kazan. Interestingly, it was the Virgin Mary herself who in an apparition revealed the artefact’s location – it was buried – to a little girl, Matrena. The icon apparently shone as bright as the sun and the Virgin instructed the child to tell the monks of a nearby church about what she had just experienced. When they dug at the indicated location, the icon was recovered. A copy of the icon was sent to Czar Ivan the Terrible, who had a cloister built on the site where the icon had been found. Matrena, as well as her mother, then joined the religious community that was installed there.

    In 1612, St. Sergei was said to have appeared to Bishop Arseni. The saint – who had died in 1392 – told the bishop that the Lady of Kazan would intervene in battle. Hence, the icon was brought to lead the troops of Prince Pozharski that were trying to free Moscow. True to the prophecy, on November 27, 1612, the Kremlin was liberated.

    Ever since, whenever Russia had to go into battle, the Virgin of Kazan or one of its copies was carried in front of the army. Later, the Virgin also rescued Russia from Napoleon’s troops. In September 1812, Marshal Koutesov took the icon from Moscow’s Cathedral and rallied his troops to cut off Napoleon’s supply routes. As such, the icon is often considered to be a “palladium”, an image upon which the safety of a city or a country – Mother Russia – was said to depend.

    At the time of the Russian Revolution, the basilica housing the icon was destroyed, apparently to prove that God did not exist. As great sledges and rams knocked down the church, loudspeakers blared: “You see, there is no God! We destroy the church of the so-called protectress of Russia, and nothing happens!” A green plot of grass in front of Lenin’s tomb marked the site where the Basilica of Our Lady of Kazan had once stood as the national Marian Shrine of Russia.

    But what happened to the icon at the time of the Russian Revolution? Though some argue that it was sold by the Emperor’s family to sustain itself in exile (a hope that never materialised for them), it is more probable that the icon was sold to help pay for the Bolshevik Revolution. This was the opinion of American art expert Frank Dorland, who studied the icon in the 1960s.

    From the little that is known, the icon apparently reached Western Europe in 1935. On April 15, 1953, the English adventurer “Mike” Mitchell-Hedges – known for his infamous crystal skull – was approached by letter from a business friend, Arthur Hillman, who was negotiating the purchase of a collection of great historical and artistic value. It was initially referred to as “The Louis Tussaud’s Collection”, likely because it was where the collection had been on display, in his museum in Blackpool (England). Between April 1953 and September 1953, several letters were exchanged between Mitchell-Hedges and Hillman, until, on September 23, 1953, Mitchell-Hedges finally purchased the icon. It is known that Mitchell-Hedges never came to see the artefact prior to purchasing it and it is therefore unclear whether he fully realised what he was buying.

    What happened to the icon between 1917 and 1953 is difficult, if not impossible, to assess. Some suppose that the icon was actually in the possession of Herman Göring, Hitler’s designated successor and commander of the Luftwaffe. This isn’t so bizarre, as in the same lot put up for sale, there was a copy of “Mein Kampf”. It is unknown whether Mitchell-Hedges bought the entire lot or merely the Virgin of Kazan.

    Between 1953 and 1965, the precious relic hung in the home of Anna Mitchell-Hedges, Mike’s daughter. Though there was no doubt that the relic was most important, the question was whether it was one of the many copies or the original icon. One of those who tried to answer that question was Cyril G.E. Bunt, the author of a book on Russian art and – for 49 years – on the staff of London Victoria and Albert Museum. “Experts will agree,” he wrote, “that it is the work of a great icon painter of the 16th century […] the pigments and the wood of the panel are perfectly preserved as exhaustive X-ray tests have proved, and have mellowed with age.”

    His verdict might seem surprising now, but we need to note that in the 1950s, at the height of the Cold War, there was still great confusion about which relic went where how. He concluded that the Mitchell-Hedges icon was a copy of the original icon, but that it was nevertheless the artefact that had been carried by Prince Pozharski during his march on Moscow with his Nationalist Army in 1612. Today, that is known to have been the original icon, not a copy.

    At the time, however, it were the likes of Grand Duchess Zenia and priests that had actually handled the original icon in Moscow, like Patriarch Leonty of New York, that aided the verification of the artefact as being the original icon. The identification occurred through the rizza, with its configuration of jewels, which is the easiest method to attain a positive identification: the icon in the possession of the Mitchell-Hedges family had a rizza that only the original icon, on display in Moscow in 1917, possessed.

    The Mitchell-Hedges Virgin of Kazan was the original… but what to do with it? With Russia off-limits, a new venue for the Virgin of Kazan had to be found and as early as 1963, there seemed to be but one choice: the Portuguese town of Fatima, where in 1917 the Virgin Mary had apparently appeared to three small children. John Shahovskoy, the Archbishop of San Francisco and the Western United States, wrote how “the Roman Catholic faith holds that the blessed Virgin appeared at Fatima and predicted the reconversion to the government of Holy Russia to Christianity. There must be something more than coincidence that this occurred in 1917 AD, the year that our beloved Russia was lost to the Bolsheviks and Communism.”

    Meanwhile, in 1964-1965, a special pavilion was erected at World Trade Fair in New York to house the icon so that people could come to admire it. On October 4, 1965, Pope Paul VI came to bless the icon.

    And then entered the “Blue Army”, an American organisation that had embraced the communist strife and the role of Fatima. The icon was the perfect billboard to promote their campaign. The Blue Army had its first “official contact” with the icon on September 13, 1965, at the New York World’s Fair. That night, the pavilion was filled with members of the Blue Army, led by the Bishop of Fatima himself. It appears that the entire night was spent in adoration and prayer for the conversion of Russia and world peace. Blue Army groups around the world, in many cities, held similar all night vigils on that same date.

    The Blue Army learned about the opportunity to purchase the icon in January 1970. Anna Mitchell-Hedges demanded $125,000 for the relic – a most reasonable price.

    Father Karl Pazelt, the director of the Byzantine Centre in San Francisco, begged the leaders of the Blue Army to make sure the necessary funds were raised. Then, it seems, another miracle of Fatima happened, for the Blue Army were able to purchase the artefact, even though officially there was nothing to indicate they would ever be able to obtain the required funds. This is why some accounts claim that Anna Mitchell-Hedges was only paid $25,000.

    Once the icon was purchased, it was taken to Fatima. Russia’s most precious relic now hung in the very place where the Virgin had predicted the vice that was communism. It therefore doesn’t take a genius to figure out what the Soviet communist regime did next: it suggested that the icon was not the original one. The Soviet powers were perfectly aware that the icon was courting a date with destiny… and became extremely nervous.
  8. jerry

    jerry Guest


    The West, of course, wanted to see the icon returned to Moscow, as its return would be interpreted by the Russian people as an omen that the evil of communism was about to be vanquished by the Virgin. But would the people of Russia rebel against their leaders, inspired by the return of the icon? And would such a revolt be successful? That was definitely not a foregone conclusion. And if the icon failed to bring about a popular revolt, then what? It was therefore agreed that the icon would remain in Fatima until Russia was free from communism… a far safer option.

    What happened next, was a surprise, for rather than to Russia, the icon went to the Vatican… to the private quarters of Pope John Paul II. After the papal assassination attempt in 1981, the pope became convinced that his life had been saved by the intervention of the Virgin herself. He believed that the Third Secret of Fatima had predicted his survival and that the Virgin had personally saved him from death. Equally, the Polish-born pope tried to bring religion back to the communist countries.

    When he discovered the icon in 1991, during one of his many visits to Fatima, he realised the icon was most important, politically, but maybe also to his own personal cause. He asked to have it transferred to the Vatican, where it was installed in the papal apartment. In 1993, the Blue Army consented to this transfer.

    Rome was never meant to be its destination, of course. In 1989, when communism had collapsed, Metropolitan Alexy of Leningrad, the future Patriarch Alexy II of Moscow, visited Seattle and had dinner with Father Frederick Miller, then-executive director of the Blue Army. The meeting could be seen as the first step in a process that might see the return of the icon to Russia.

    But in 1993, it was no longer the Blue Army, but the pope who was negotiating with the Russian Orthodox leaders. The pope did not merely want to see the object on display in Moscow, he personally wished to visit Moscow or Kazan, when he would return the icon to the Russian Orthodox Church. It was clear that the Vatican wanted to show to the people of Mother Russia that it was the Catholic Church, not the Orthodox Church, which had preserved their most precious relic. Unsurprisingly, these plans were blocked by the Moscow Patriarchate. They wanted to see the relic’s return, but without the Vatican’s fingerprints all over the event.

    Officially, the pope wanted to deliver the relic personally as a sign of rapprochement between the two Churches that had been divided since 1054. This was also the dream of the Blue Army, but it was clear that this would be a very high-profile state visit, which would have to meet with the total approval of Russian president Vladimir Putin. The president, it seemed, did not wish to see a papal visit to Mother Russia either… and definitely not one in which he brought the Virgin of Kazan back.

    Little happened for a decade, but after Putin’s visit to the Vatican in 2003, it became obvious that the seriously frail and aging pope would not be invited to Russia any time soon. Pope John Paul II realised that he had to lower the stakes if he wanted to accomplish anything. As such, he consented in a lower key process in which a Vatican missionary would present the icon to the Russian Church.

    In late August 2004, the Pope said goodbye to the icon in an incense-filled Liturgy of the Word celebration inside the Vatican. “How many times have I prayed to the Mother of God of Kazan,” he lamented about the icon that had hung over his desk in the papal apartments for the past ten years, “asking her to protect and guide the Russian people and to precipitate the moment in which all the disciples of her Son, recognizing themselves as brothers, will know how to reconstruct in fullness their compromised unity.” He then handed the icon over to two emissaries, Cardinals Walter Kasper and Theodore McCarrick, the latter archbishop of Washington, who took it to Russia.

    Interestingly, Cardinal Walter Kasper, the president of the Pontifical Council for Christian Unity, stated that the icon was “a symbol of the new Europe and its formation, of which Russia is a part.” He added that “Our Lady of Kazan is the protector of Europe and its Christian roots. […] After two world wars, and the phenomena of secularisation, Europe needs to be founded again in the faith.”

    On August 26, 2004, the Virgin of Kazan went on display on the altar of St. Peter’s Basilica. Two days later, it was delivered to Moscow. Vatican Cardinal Walter Kasper handed the icon back to the Russian Orthodox Church in a ceremony at the Kremlin’s Cathedral of the Assumption, as a personal gift from Pope John Paul II.

    It would be almost one year later, on the next feast day of the holy icon – July 21, 2005 – that Patriarch Alexius II and Mintimer Shaymiev, the President of Tatarstan, placed it in the Annunciation Cathedral of the Kazan Kremlin. The Virgin of Kazan was back where she belonged – and where she had conquered, it seemed, the forces of communism. Destiny had been fulfilled, through divine will and/or political engineering, with the participation of several popes, an English treasure hunter, maybe Hitler’s inner circle, and maybe even the Virgin Mary herself.

    Pasted from <>

    Article found while i was checking how widespread was the labelling of The Virgin of Kazan as the Black Madonna of Kazan.

    Happy it was ministryvalues site that came up with such an informative article - given that it was 'his' thread that got locked recently. :)

  9. TODAY on Facebook....
    “Ukrainian citizens who are being coerced into obtaining Russian passports remain citizens of Ukraine. This contradicts the law of Ukraine because Ukraine does not recognize dual citizenship, but in this instance, with a part of Ukrainian territory having been seized and residents forced into accepting passports of a neighboring country, it will be recognized.”

    All Crimeans to remain Ukrainian citizens
    Government Minister Ostap Semerak notes that Ukrainian citizens who are being coerced into obtaining Russian passports will remain citizens of Ukraine. As announced by Minister of the Cabinet of Mi...

    Residents of Crimea get Russian passports with the registration in… Russian cities far from Crimea

    Ivan Khomyak (Facebook post)

    My friend has relatives in Eupatoria (Crimea). They are pro-Russian. Two families. Both were happy that they will have “order and high level of life”. They ran to get the Russian passports. They got them (200 UAH each, why not roubles?). By Russian tradition they drank to “the purchase”. The child curiously was turning over the pages and found out… Murmansk registration in it*. They are shocked. And this is not fake.

    *Murmansk is a port city in Russia located in the extreme northwest part of Russia, not far from Russia's borders with Norway and Finland.
  10. concernedforusa

    concernedforusa New Member

    To: Jerry

    Yes, I immediately noticed that your avatar image looks exactly as the Mother of God of Kazan. Am I right?

    And thank you for sharing this incredible story about Our Lady of Kazan!

    God Bless!

  11. jerry

    jerry Guest

    concernedforusa: no you are not correct. I give you a clue. I consider myself an honourary Pole. :)
  12. concernedforusa

    concernedforusa New Member

    To Jerry:

    Is it the Our Lady of Częstochowa?
  13. jerry

    jerry Guest


    I know the image as the Black Madonna of Czestochowa. I have no problems with the adjective black.

    Do you see the point I am trying to make?
  14. concernedforusa

    concernedforusa New Member

    To Jerry:

    Yes, I see your point. But, the Russians do not use adjective "Black" in describing the icons of Our Lady. It's just a cultural thing. I've already noticed that Polish icons resemble Russian icons to a great extent. Sometimes, it is impossible to distinguish them.

    God Bless!

    jerry likes this.
  15. garabandal

    garabandal Powers
    The proof of the pudding is in the eating.

    Putin invaded Crimea and annexed it. Similarly the Russians previously annexed two areas of Georgia.

    The invasion of Crimea was a military takeover.

    Russia under Putin is acting like a rogue state.
  16. padraig

    padraig New Member

    We were blessed in that we were always taught from childhood that if we asked God for forgiveness we would be forgiven no matter how terrible the sin.

    Isaiah 1:18

    "Come now, let us settle the matter," says the LORD. "Though your sins are like scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they are red as crimson, they shall be like wool.

    Thank God I have never had the least difficulty believing in this.

    I recall a priest saying one time that he thought the great sin of Judas was that he didn't really believe God would forgive him. So that his own great sin was despair. Which is just so sad.

    It is true as you say the mystery of grace...and its rejection is tied up in all this.
  17. padraig

    padraig New Member

  18. concernedforusa

    concernedforusa New Member

    To Garabandal:

    You wrote:
    Your comment above only proved that you are swallowing information which is spoon-fed to you without analyzing it carefully.

    Let us take a look at this article, the link to which was presented in your comment.

    This article said:

    My God! Reading this statement I had impression that evil armed to the teeth soldiers of the Evil Empire from Star Wars attacked very young children in the kindergarten!

    Ukrainian soldier is the exact copy of the Russian soldier. They both are equipped with the same modern weapons and they both have the same courage in the battle. If Ukrainian soldiers believed that the territory of their mother-country was invaded by foreign troops, they would fight ferociously to their death. They would not retreat; they would die to a man protecting their mother-country and its people.

    The Ukrainian soldiers did not offer any resistance because they know very well that the Crimea belongs to Russia. They know very well that the Russians have a just cause. That is why there was no fighting and no casualties.

    I was furious that this article portrayed the Ukrainian military as the bunch of frightened little chickens running to their mama-chicken. This portrayal is embarrassing and humiliating to me as the Ukrainian. People, please, process the information! Please, see what is not written between the lines!

    Below is another excerpt from this article:

    Several hundred of unarmed civilians were able to seize a Ukrainian naval base??????? My God in Heaven!!!! People, pleeeeeese!!!!

    May God lead and enlighten all of us!

    Mario likes this.
  19. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    Is it a fact that Russia invaded and took over Crimea. This was an aggressive act. The fact that western powers have replied with a whimper shows that they are following a policy of appeasement.

    Crimea was legitimately part of the sovereign nation of Ukraine. To argue that Russia had a right to invade and take over because of historical links gives credence to Putin's act of aggression.

    The same argument was use by Hitler to take over Austria followed by the Sudetenland, (part of Czechoslovakia) because they were German speaking.

    You are the one who has been suckered by Putin's propaganda.
  20. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I am afraid this is turning into a heavily political discussion.

    The purpose of the forum is religious/ spiritual. Its good to give a certain amount of allowance for the political but .....I think on this thread it is getting a bit much and it skews toe forum form its original spiritual purpose.

    So I am going to close this thread down.

    I don't want to seem like a dictator doing things like this, think well of me I do the best I can.:rolleyes:
    miker, Mario, Eamonn and 1 other person like this.

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