Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day!

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by sparrow, Dec 27, 2019.

  1. sparrow

    sparrow Exitus ~ Reditus

    Catholic Hermits Excommunicated on Christmas Day
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    Deacon Nick Donnelly has reported that the Hermits of Westray received notification of their excommunication on Christmas Day. The three Scottish hermits were reportedly excommunicated for a post on their website entitled “The Declaration.” In the post, the hermits declare:

    Never in history has there been such a Pope, who by his actions, words and teaching, has thrown the whole Church into confusion. There have been bad and immoral Popes like John XII, and Alexander VI, there have been mad Popes, like Urban VI, there have been severe and unbalanced reforming Popes like Paul IV, and there have been pleasure loving Popes like Leo X, but none of them have spread such alarm throughout the Catholic Church. Such days have never been seen since the days of the Arian heresy, and yet these days are far, far worse.

    A terrible darkness has spread over the world and the Church. Modernism, Secularism, Humanism, and Scientism are eroding the ancient Truths of Faith; and aided by the poisonous ideology of Evolution, which is no science at all, have convinced many in the Church that Man is getting better all the time. Thus ignoring the fact that the last century has seen tyrants and wars which eclipse all others in recorded history, for aided by science the evils of war and tyranny have been magnified beyond all imagining, and that terrifying magnification is ever increasing, and evil is truly unrestrained.

    Tragically the head of the Church on Earth, Pope Francis, by his utterances, his behaviour, his teaching and his actions, has shown himself to be indeed a great heretic. He has proclaimed that no-one goes to Hell, he has undermined the indissolubility of marriage, he has approved of couples living together, he has behaved in an ambiguous fashion towards homosexuals, and received warmly, not only homosexual couples, but a transgender person and his fiancé and pro-abortion advocates. Pope Francis has said that the death penalty is inadmissible, and finally, in outright contradiction to the First Commandment, has said that God has willed all religions, and that this must be taught throughout the Church in her seminaries, her universities, and her schools.

    The hermits go on to lament the silence of the bishops, stating:

    In all this, silence has enveloped the bishops. Unable or unwilling to confront the successor of Peter; either through human respect, fear of schism, or through the thought of being cast out of their dioceses by the Pope, they have been reduced to a state of helplessness. Integrity has collapsed, fortitude has given way to cowardice and the flock are left, not only to the wolves, but to ravening lions, and every other conceivable violent personification of heresy and untruth . The bishops have forgotten how to teach , are powerless to correct, and seem unable to prevent the cruel invasion of the LGBT propaganda machine into Catholic schools, and nowhere is this more evident than in Britain.

    Some people who have commented on Donnelly’s post have said that Bishop Brian McGee had no choice but to excommunicate the hermits because their “declaration” stated they were withdrawing from the pope. Others have stated the support the hermits’ “declaration.”

    The members of the hermitage include Father Stephen de Kerdrel, Sister Colette Roberts and Brother Damon Kelly who had been arrested in the past for his public criticisms of homosexuality and abortion.

    TAKE ACTION: Those interested in expressing their opinions directly to Bishop McGee can do so by sending him an email.
    UPDATE: We have received word that Bishop McGee is apparently blocking emails. You may need to resort to calling him at 01631 567436.

    https://www.complicitclergy.com/2019/12/25/catholic-hermits-excommunicated-on-christmas-day/
     
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  2. Mark Maiocco

    Mark Maiocco Archangels

    Thank you Sparrow for posting this. To be completely honest it leaves me sickened and in tears! I do wonder if the decision for excommunication from the Vatican came without dialogue or any attempt at all for communication and/or reconciliation. I could very easily believe that our Church leaders simply slammed the lid shut in one fail swoop and got rid of these Holy hermits just for “disagreeing” with the Pope. It makes me feel so helpless. I’ve been working so hard over the last two years of my life to daily submit myself to God’s will and serve Our Lord through His Blessed Mother. I’m still praying and fasting and receiving the sacraments as often as I can along with at least one daily rosary. I also pray for our Holy Father the Pope every morning. But when I read this story and see the heartless actions that our Church hierarchy are entangled in - especially on Christmas Day - I feel overwhelmed by the evil of it all. Sometimes I don’t think I can bear anymore heartaches. I’ll continue to pray...
     
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  3. padraig

    padraig Powers

    How strange to excommunicate like this right out of the blue. I suspect the Bishop was shoved into it. The French army has phrase when they shoot on of their soldiers for ,say, deserting, 'Por encourager les autres'.... (to encourage the others).

    In other words to put the Fear of God into everyone else. How many clergy have been excommunicated for child abuse? How many for heresy? How many for being perverts? How many for financial corruption? Apart from Mr McCarrick I can't think of any. But these three hermits get nailed.

    I can't disagree with a word these holy gentlemen wrote. In fact they didn't mention the half of it. Not much Mercy or accompaniment here. Abortionists are fine, homosexuals are fine, Amazonian Shamans are fine, Atheist Communists are great but Catholic Hermits get excommunicated.

    Funny old world.

    Just goes to show who we're dealing with though. A nasty, nasty lot.
     
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  4. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    There is no chance that these hermits would cross their arms in a Panchamama ceremony -- they would cause a riot by intervening - they are Catholics on steroids lol

    And very brave but also prophetic -- they see through crystal clear water --

    Though we are utterly unimportant, for who is interested in hermits that dare to speak out, we cannot keep silent for fear of damning not only our own souls, but the souls of countless others(xxii) .

    In my opninion we are in a unique situation in Church history in that we have a 'destroyer' in the Chair of Peter so how much allegiance do we give because 'where there is Peter there is the Church'. Jesus told the Jews to obey the Pharisees even though they were hypocites --
    'So you must be careful to do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for they do not practice what they preach'.

    But there are teachings in this Pontificate than contradict the faith & cannot be obeyed in conscience -- e.g. death penalty, parts of Amoris Laetitia --

    I have to say I don't like this Pope on a personal level -- he is deceptive and cunning (I am not judging his motives but observing his actions and commenting on their impact). He uses the plane interviews and Scalfari interviews to spread confusion - a seemingly deliberate policy to create a mess and chaos. He walks on crooked lines and we don't not know what he really believes because of his carefully chosen rambles --

    I just wish he would tell us what he really believes plain and simple ---- even if it is heretical -- I would have more respect.


    Just tell us Pope Francis in plain language what you believe about hell, the Eucharist, the Mass, contraception, homosexual acts -- tell us plain and simple not to a senile old journalist but to the Dubia cardinals -- it is time for this Pope to be held to account!

    Stop hiding behind a cassock -- stand up and be manly and speak in plain language!

    And as for the merciful 'who am I to judge Pope' -- give me a break. You have made judgements about what bishops/cardinals to appoint and to sack!!

    Meanwhile millions are leaving the Catholic church in droves, souls are being lost and Francis 'fiddles whilst Rome burns'.

    Am I living in a twilight zone or reality?

    And in my next confession ----'.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2019
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  5. sparrow

    sparrow Exitus ~ Reditus

    So in a case like this, do the Hermits stop practicing their faith? What happens if they go on practicing it? What if all of us who believe the truth that this Pope is confusing now are told we are excommunicated? Thoughts??
     
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  6. AED

    AED Powers

    Good question. As St Peter said to the Sanhedrin after directly disobeying their order to stop preaching "we are to obey God not man"
     
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  7. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Well you couldn't have the Sacraments; but you could still go to mass and pray in front of the Blessed Sacrament. You could still say the Rosary and read Scripture.

    Still it would be a killer.

    They could carry on as excommunicated hermits I suppose.

    Poor men. You cannot retract what you say if you believe it to be true. That would be a lie of course.

    If I could excommunicated I would certainly pray about it and think about it a lot in case the Vatican was right. But if I thought my case was right I would stand over it.

    I think the one thing I would do is to go directly to Our Lady and ask her to step in on my behalf; to be my Advocate.

    I would entrust myself Heart and Soul to Stella Maris.

     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2019
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  8. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Something is either true ..

    ...or it is false.

    Something is either right..

    ..or it is wrong.

    Something is either good..

    ''or it is bad.

    You cannot go and say that which is false is true, or that what ir wrong is right, or that something that is bad is good just to please people and to obedient.

    That would be the road to madness and badness.
     
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  9. Xavier

    Xavier "In the end, My Immaculate Heart will Triumph."

    There is such a thing as either invalid or unjust excommunication, according to the teaching of St. Thomas Aquinas and the Church.

    "Now excommunication does not interrupt this union, since no man can be justly excommunicated except for a mortal sin, whereby a man is already separated from charity, even without being excommunicated. An unjust excommunication cannot deprive a man of charity, since this is one of the greatest of all goods, of which a man cannot be deprived against his will ... An excommunication may be unjust for two reasons. First, on the part of its author, as when anyone excommunicates through hatred or anger, and then, nevertheless, the excommunication takes effect, though its author sins, because the one who is excommunicated suffers justly, even if the author act wrongly in excommunicating him ... Secondly, on the part of the excommunication, through there being no proper cause, or through the sentence being passed without the forms of law being observed. In this case, if the error, on the part of the sentence, be such as to render the sentence void, this has no effect, for there is no excommunication; but if the error does not annul the sentence, this takes effect, and the person excommunicated should humbly submit (which will be credited to him as a merit), and either seek absolution from the person who has excommunicated him, or appeal to a higher judge." http://www.newadvent.org/summa/5021.htm

    And then St. Thomas continues: "Reply to Objection 1. Although a man cannot lose God's grace unjustly, yet he can unjustly lose those things which on our part dispose us to receive grace. for instance, a man may be deprived of the instruction which he ought to have. It is in this sense that excommunication is said to deprive a man of God's grace, as was explained above (Article 2, Reply to Objection 3)."

    Still, it is very sad that such things are happening. A negative sign of things to come for the Faithful? Let's hope not. Let's all entrust ourselves to Our Lord and Our Lady, and beg Them to deliver us from trials beyond our strength.
     
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  10. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

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  11. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Yes its maybe over the top and a formal declaration. But the German Cardinals and Bishops are much worse. What should be sauce for the goose should be sauce for the gander.
     
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  12. Indy

    Indy Praying

    When a message comes from hermits I really listen, when hermits get excommunicated it is clear what lies ahead for anyone who remains faithful.

    As hermits are the first (I think) to be excommunicated for speaking out about what is going on I take it as a sign that the underground church is about to happen in a big way.


    From the notes in the link above.
    xxi) The approaching mass apostasy of the faithful is now upon us:

    Many have written about this, we just include a few quotes from the Blessed. John Henry Newman:

    “The trials to come will be such as would have terrified even St. Athanasius, St. Gregory the Great, and St. Gregory VII and made them lose their footing. Dark though the prospect was in their time ours will be a time of black darkness different from all previous times. Dear brothers you are entering a world such as Christians have not known before.”

    “The future of the Church? My views about that go back fifty years. During all that time I have expected to see a period of general unfaithfulness. In fact during all that time, like the beginnings of a flood, the waters have not stopped rising. I foresee the moment, after my time, when you will see only the tops of the mountains, like solitary little islands in an expanse of water.

    “Here I speak of the Protestant world. But the Catholic leaders will have to do great things and they will need wisdom from on high as well as courage from the Holy Spirit if the Church is to escape the terrible calamity.”
     
  13. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    Don, What in particular don't you agree with from their notes? I am not saying that you are wrong, I am just curious. Thank you.
     
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  14. MMM

    MMM Archangels

    When Hermits speak out they cease to be hermits anymore. ;)
     
  15. Indy

    Indy Praying

    They did not speak, they declared.
     
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  16. josephite

    josephite Powers

    These Hermits are in good company!

    St Mary MacKillop Australia's only canonised saint was excommunicated on 22 September 1871 by Bishop Sheil for alleged insubordination; most of the schools were closed and the Sisterhood almost disbanded. The excommunication was removed on 21 February 1872 by order of the bishop nine days before he died.

    Nun whose order fought abuse becomes Australia's first saint
    By Richard Allen Greene, CNN
    October 18, 2010 -- Updated 1021 GMT (1821 HKT)


    Australia got its first Catholic saint on Sunday, a feisty 19th-century nun who was briefly excommunicated when her colleagues exposed an abusive priest.
    Mary MacKillop co-founded the Sisters of St. Joseph of the Sacred Heart in 1867, and gained a reputation as the first Australian nun to leave the cities and minister to the rural poor.
    Nuns in her order got evidence that a priest was engaged in "scandalous behavior,"(was sexually interfering with children) according to the Rev. Paul Gardiner, who has spent decades researching MacKillop's life.
    The nuns reported it to the Rev. Julian Woods, MacKillop's first spiritual mentor who co-founded the Sisters of St. Joseph.
    Woods in turn reported the abuse to church authorities, resulting in the Rev. Ambrose Patrick Keating being sent back to Ireland from Kapunda, Australia.
    But Keating's friends "were really upset with Father Woods and thought they could best get at him by getting at Mary," said Claire Larkin, the chair of the Mary MacKillop Centre in Penola, Australia.

    "They told a lot of lies to the bishop," who excommunicated MacKillop and the entire order in 1871, she said.
    Bishop James Quinn revoked the excommunication five months later, on his deathbed, the order says in its biography of Mary MacKillop.
    But she still had to spend decades fighting local Catholic leaders for control of the order she founded.


    Print A- A A+
    Fr Andrew Hamilton SJ | 05 October 2010


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    St Mary MacKillop's life Story (short version)

    Mary MacKillop's life does not just tell us about a brave and determined woman who has become a saint. It also says something important about Australia and the Australian Catholic Church today, and about the vision we need as Australians and Catholics. In this feature, Fr Andrew Hamilton SJ takes us through the life of St Mary of the Cross MacKillop. We also look at how the works she began are continued by the Josephites and their friends today.


    How did Mary MacKillop manage to do so much? She took responsibility for her younger brothers and sisters when she was only 11 years old. She was a governess and teacher by the time she was 18. She helped form a religious congregation at the age of 24. Before she was 30 she was wrongly excommunicated and badly treated by Bishops. She spent time in Rome negotiating approval of her Congregation. In the care of her congregation she travelled by boat, coach and train around Australia, New Zealand and Europe. Even after she suffered a stroke she was re-elected Mother General of the Josephites. Mary's vision was at once large, small and Catholic. It was always larger than the resources she had to achieve it. She never took the easy path. She did not want only to show sympathy to deprived children. She wanted to open schools for them. She did not want simply to do good works alone. She wanted to be part of a band of women dedicated to the poor. She did not confine her work to one part of Australia or of the Catholic Church. She wanted to serve poor children wherever there was need and wherever her Congregation was wanted. She faced many conflicts with people whose vision was smaller than her own.

    But Mary's vision also focused on small things. What mattered to her was people. And in people, what mattered most was the heart which is open to love and be loved. Wherever she went she met children in schools, visited prisoners in jails and encouraged the Josephite sisters who taught in schools and cared for poor children. She saw each human being as important in God's eyes and her meetings with each person always spoke of God's love.

    Mary's vision was both large and small because it was a Catholic vision. She was inspired by faith and lived her faith in the Catholic Church. No matter how badly she was treated by other Catholics, the church was God's family and her home.

    In her relationships with bishops and clergy she was always respectful, always put the best face on abusive behaviour towards her, and refused to enter into public debate. But she was like rock in defending the castle of the heart where she and her sisters took their religious vows. Once her Congregation was approved, she would not allow their commitment to it to be altered at the whim of local authorities.

    Mary took the name Mary of the Cross. Her life was a series of trials and humiliations. What kept her going was ultimately God's love shown through the pain of Christ's cross. Her pain, like Christ's, was intensely personal, but borne for the salvation of many.

    1. Burdened with responsibility
    From her own childhood, Mary knew all about poverty and the importance of education. Her own family fell on hard times in an Australia where there was no safety net for families in distress. If a parent died, the family could be forced into extreme poverty, and perhaps broken up. In this harsh world, children were inevitably the victims. They could remain illiterate because there was no free education available and no one to send them to school.

    2. Founding of the sisters
    When Mary first went to work for her relatives in Penola she met Fr Julian Tenison Woods, the young parish priest. She wanted to give herself to God as a religious sister. He wanted people to help with the education of the poor. So in 1866 she and some of her friends became religious sisters. They followed a short rule of life given them by Fr Woods. Mary was then 24 years old.

    Why St Joseph?
    The new congregation founded by Fr Woods was dedicated to St Joseph. For Mary, as for other Catholics at the time Joseph was a no-nonsense saint, close to Jesus, totally dedicated to the welfare of his family, and with a gift for getting on with it.

    In one of her letters to her sisters Mary speaks of St Joseph's humility, saying:

    'Sisters, this was a quiet humility, grounded on submission to the adorable will of his God. It was a humility of heart, not of words, a silent not a noisy humility.'

    That was Mary's own way.

    3. Bearing the Cross
    Mary soon recognised that her decision to call herself Sister Mary of the Cross, was prophetic. In her early years with the Congregation she experienced much pain. This came partly from the hostility and erratic personality of some church authorities. But it also reflected a natural tension between the special commitment of the Sisters to the poor and the local bishops' desire to use the sisters for their own projects.
     
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2019
  17. AED

    AED Powers

    Agree or disagree? Their notes clarify their points very ably I think. Did I misread your comment?
     
  18. Mark Maiocco

    Mark Maiocco Archangels

    Do the Holy Hermits commit mortal sin if they receive the Eucharist while excommunicated?
     
  19. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    This is what I meant when I said on another thread that if schism were to occur, I suspect that we will find it difficult to know what to do.

    +
     
  20. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    As much as I sympathize with these hermits, they have separated themselves from the Pope. Read the declaration carefully. They voluntarily left the Church. That was before the Bishop had no choice but to excommunicate.
     
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