Cardinal Burke on the State of the Church

Discussion in 'Video Blogs' started by padraig, Aug 13, 2019.

  1. Mary's child

    Mary's child Powers

    Thank you Padraig.
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  2. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Prayers for Trolls everywhere.

    They so need our prayers.

  3. border collie

    border collie Archangels

    Perhaps you are a little hard on Irishguy Padraig.
    Having read back on some of his posts, it's obvious he has had a tough life and like us all is struggling to stay on the right path in these difficult times. I feel he was receiving a lot of good from the members posting here and if he is banned he may lose out on that good.
    Sometimes it takes patience and charity to allow souls to be where they are at, not where we would like them to be.
    God bless
    AED likes this.
  4. padraig

    padraig Powers

    It's always a call

    Who knows?

    You can only do your best,##

    Mine came down to a profound lack of Charity...and an extraordinary Spirit of Combat##

    Perpetual finger pointing does not indicate comversion or any intentsion thereof.
    If there was conversion there it was lost on me.

    In the Spirit of Padre Pio , it was take a hike time:);)

    No doubt he's meant to be somewhere but not here.
    He'll always be an argument waiting to happen.
    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
  5. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    I'm inclined to agree with Border Collie. I didn't think that Irishguy was a troll. And I should have been more tactful in my response to his post about the Cardinal.

    All the scandals have left people willing to believe every accusation against priests, even slurs they would have dismissed as ridiculous had the scandals not happened. Now it's open season on the Church, the Faith, our traditions and especially the Sacraments. I'm sure we all recall from years ago "hard men" asking how could we pay attention to a guy in a dress. They meant priests wearing cassocks or liturgical vestments. Fast forward a couple of years and the same hard men were strutting around in Demis Roussus (spelling??) type kaftans and wearing flowers in their hair or banging tambourines as they chanted hare krisna. No doubt the same kind of slurs came from Scotsmen who made sure to wear a kilt on special occasions or when supporting their rugby team.

    From the (admittedly little) I've read about liturgical vestments, setting aside special clothing for celebrating Mass dates back to early Christianity. Remember the first converts were Jews who understood the importance of priesthood and offering sacrifice to God. Before Christianity was legalised priests needed to keep a low profile for fear of persecution by the Jews and the worldly powers. But even then it is believed that priests set aside special clothing for offering Mass - probably something equivalent to whatever was then their best outfit. After Christianity became legal, they began improving the quality of the clothing and eventually the Church started mandating what should be worn for offering Holy Mass, over the years adding garments, mitres, etc. which sometimes had a special meaning. For example, the reason Cardinals wear red is to signify their willingness to shed blood for the Faith.

    I'm not a big fan of the Cappa Magna (the red cloak with long train which Cardinal Burke sometimes wears when arriving at the church before celebrating special Masses). About a thousand years ago or whenever it was introduced, it probably had some significant meaning. Nowadays it can convey the wrong impression. At the same time I think it important that we don't go the way of some Protestant religions where nothing happens to the bread and wine at their services so there's no need for any outward display that a secred ritual is taking place.

    I'm sure that someone like Mario or Brian would be better able to give a better explanation.
  6. padraig

    padraig Powers

    padraig, 9 minutes ago Edit History Delete IP Report
    #24 Reply
    Dolours Powers
    New I'm inclined to agree with Border Collie. I didn't think that Irishguy was a troll. And I should have been more tactful in my response to his post about the Cardinal.

    I respectfully do not concur.

    If I was wrong the test will of him no harm.

    He needs time out to think about his attitude...and much else.

    He needs time out for thought and prayer.

    Loads and loads of time. Loads and loads of prayer/
  7. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    That's why I'm glad I don't get to decide who stays or goes.

    It was the drag queen slur that pushed my buttons. In fairness, a clever troll would have said the same thing but using different words. That's why I'm inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt.

    I wish that we all had been better educated in the Faith and our traditions, and I wish that my own lack of attention hadn't left me so ignorant. For all that it can be a force for evil, the internet can be a great resource for those of us wanting to learn more about the Faith provided we make sure to go to reliable sources.

    We all need loads of prayer. I wish Irishguy all the best and if he is hurting I hope that God will send people into his life who will help him heal.
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  8. AED

    AED Powers

    Yes I think he needs prayer. He is struggling mightily to get on the right path and stay there. I think his outburst was just a response to the horrors we are all reading about. He wasn't subtle--he was outraged and flailing about. I have compassion for him but I respect completely Padraig's discernment in these matters.
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  9. Blizzard

    Blizzard thy kingdom come

    I suppose Irish guy may be referring to the "cappa magna".


    It is unfortunate he jumped to the wrong conclusions without doing a little research.

    We may or may not like the vestment in question (I myself am not crazy about it) but here´s what it represents:

    The cappa magna (great cape) is supposed to represent “the finery of the world, its pomp and prestige”. That is why the bishop (who may be a cardinal) is “publicly stripped of this finery and humbled before the congregation”. He has his silk choir vestments removed – and then re-enters in priestly garb.

    The bishop is clothed in the new man of which St Paul speaks, including the baptismal alb, the dalmatic of charity, the stole of pardon and the chasuble of mercy. When finally clothed in Christ, the prelate makes a second entrance into the church to begin the eucharistic celebration in persona Christi, the visible head of the body, the church.

    It is a clear statement that the power and prestige of the world have no place at the altar,

    And for the record, St. Pope John Paul also wore the cappa magna on occasion:

    Last edited: Aug 19, 2019
  10. border collie

    border collie Archangels

    That's the reason I weighed in on this conversation Dolours, I feel there are people here who will help him heal. All that's needed is patience and charity. And if we don't have charity .....

    BTW I just thought of something the good Lord showed me a while back :), if I pray for the virtue of patience I'm inadvertently asking the Lord to send some person or situation into my life to teach me patience, it's the only way it will develop. And the same with all the other virtues , love, humility etc.

    Hope all's going well for you Dolours.
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  11. AED

    AED Powers

    And yes and yes again. Mother Teresa always said one learns humility bu suffering humiliations.:)
    gracia likes this.
  12. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    Unfortunately, I only remembered Fr. Hardon's talk about the Beatitudes after I had responded to Irishguy. I'm sorry now that I didn't let it go in the hope that someone like Mario would read it and respond. I'm learning a lot from Fr. Hardon's talks but sadly I'm a slow learner. "Blessed are the meek" is the lesson I needed to learn before posting. Here's a link to Fr. Hardon's talk (there's another video about the Beatitudes but this one goes into detail on each of them). "Blessed are the Meek" begins at about point 9:04 on the video.
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  13. AED

    AED Powers

    Thanks Dolours.
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  14. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    All is well with me, BC, thank you.

    I don't envy Pagraig's task of running the forum. While everyone deserves some latitude, you only have to lurk on other Catholic forums to see how they can be ruined by trolls. I'm only a member of this forum but I lurk on others and after a while the trolling activity comes apparent. Many of the trolls are lapsed Catholics who know the Faith well and have rejected it and they tend to team up with atheists/agnostics and Catholics pushing very heterdox agendas. They know well how to avoid the chop from moderators or site administrators who can only deal with what the post openly. Sometimes it looks like they rotate the attacks on the faith (using quite inoffensive language), making them harder to spot and weed out. Whatever benefit can be gained by tolerating them could be negated by damage they do in private messages to Catholics uncertain in their faith.

    Rather Padraig than me having to make hard decisions.

    Hope life is good for you too. God Bless.
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  15. AED

    AED Powers

    Dont be hard on yourself. You were defending Cardinal Burke and it was absolutely right to do so. His comments were WAY out of line. I just think he was spewing without thinking. These horrors have all of us raging inside but Father Hardon had great wisdom and humility and holiness. His way is a good way. If only I had the grace to do it. My first response is not always gentle or charitable. I'm always taking it to confession. Sigh.
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  16. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Trolls can sometimes be very difficult to discern.
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  17. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Father Hardon was one of the very best theologians the church has ever had. He was raised by his mother and was an only child. I can tell some good stories he told at retreat, but one I found funny was the one he told about running a race against Jessy Owens (the fastest man in the world back then), as he grew up in NYC. It was before one of his talks, don't why he he told us this, but he told the men there that he ran against Jesse, he looked up over top his black glasses and said, "and I don't have to tell you who won"! He had a great sense of humor, but most never seen this side of him. Every word he spoke he chose very articulately with emphasis. He was not liked by his Jesuit brothers and it is easy to see why. He seen all the things happening in the church today and spoke to much of it 30 years ago. This is the very best site out there for many of his talks, materials and writings including his Catholic Dictionary. He was also St. Mother Teresa of Calcutta's spiritual directors and her sisters. He told another story about staying in a large house where the sisters lived and one night heard a ruckus down stairs. He came out of his room unto a balcony to see several men who broke into the house to rape the nuns. He looked down at them, they looked up at him and Father said to us: "I thought my prayers for martyrdom had been answered at that moment". After a long pause they exited the house with no further incident. He and Cardinal Burke were best of friends. If anyone has been to Lady of Guadalupe shrine in Lacrosse, Wisconsin, Father Hardon helped Cardinal Burke pick this beautiful site out to build upon and the main entrance building has many artifacts of Father Hardon on display there for his canonization process.
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  18. padraig

    padraig Powers

    I lifted the ban on , 'Irish Guy'. ;);)You both made agood case
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  19. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    I'm glad, Padraig.

    If Irishguy is still around, I recommend that he pay a visit to the church when there's no-one around and bring his concerns to Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament.

    Although nobody abused me and I don't know any abuse victims, I have been where Irishguy is now in terms of his view of the Church. It took me a while to realise that dragging us all down with those abusers is exactly what Satan wants. It's a full-frontal attack on the Mystical Body of Christ but we know who wins in the end.

    A note of caution to Irishguy: if he's going to a church in a built-up area he'll need to have some change in his pocket for the beggars, especially if he's the only person in the church. He can expect a variety of sad stories like "I'm just out of hospital", "I'm waiting for a flat", "Just got a flat and I need furniture", "From the country and can't afford the train fare home", "Wife just had a baby and I need bus fare to visit her in hospital", "Husband left me and I can't feed the baby". Sometimes inside the church they just stand over you until you give them money". If it were happening anywhere but in Catholic churches, the police would be all over them like a rash but hassling Catholics is the national sport in this country nowadays so everyone shrugs their shoulders at it.
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  20. Joan J

    Joan J HolySpiritCome!

    OK Padraig, I think whomever handles the coding for this site, ought to add a "LOVE" next to "Like" as well as more emoti-faces. ;D
    padraig likes this.

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