Behind the scenes.

Discussion in 'Questions and Answers' started by Mac, Aug 8, 2015.

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Will Pope Francis will strongly defend teaching ?

  1. Yes , Pope Francis will defend church teaching.

    24 vote(s)
    92.3%
  2. No , Pope Francis will not defend church teaching.

    2 vote(s)
    7.7%
  3. Church teaching is open to debate by popular opinion.

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  1. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

    There is much going on in the build up to the next Synod .

    While it is clear that on the forum most dont really want to discuss it until after the Synod has taken place.

    Too many anti Pope Francis suggestions from certain sites [life site news, Rorate,etc]

    So how about some thoughts on what good might come out of the Synod.

    I know many here are expecting Pope Francis to finally seperate the Wolves from the Sheep now that they are exposed.

    How strongly do you think he will come down on this assault on church teaching?
     
  2. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

    If I could edit the poll questions I would . A hasty post Im afraid .
    Still , here is another question, Has anyone softened their opinion regarding Homos and same sex marriage and adulterers in the last year ?
     
  3. Bartimaeus

    Bartimaeus Archangels

    ...
    ...now there's a question that needs editing!
     
  4. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

    True indeed Bart .
    Has anyone softened their attitude to Homos and same sex marriage and adultery in the last year, because these issues appear to be open to debate, and that many church leaders are now approving of such things?

    I can of course link bishops who approve these things but that is not the question. The question is , have you softened?
     
  5. Bartimaeus

    Bartimaeus Archangels

    I have a much clearer understanding of why i completely support the official Church position.

    But i must admit i can find both men and women attractive but not in way that would satiafy the SSM advocates!
     
    Mac likes this.
  6. Clare A

    Clare A Archangels

    What many think is that the HF has softened his own views because as Cardinal he denounced SSM as demonic. Personally, I do not believe that he sides with the liberals, he just wants honest opinions and debate - I'm not sure that this is a good or bad thing. He's the Pope, I follow him. Yet the German bishops (except for three in old Ratzinger country) have stated that they are not a franchise of the Pope and it is up to them to decide how to follow a pastoral solution. Of course this is hogwash and fudge - wasn't there a mystic who prophesied that there would be open disobedience to the HF, maybe leading to outright schism? I have met priests who are losing sleep over worry about the Synod - but we need always to remember that this is God's church and he is in charge. In the end, we can't do anything but pray. That is our role as lay people, though of course if a bishop seems to be in contradiction to Rome, it is right to let him know of our concerns. Anyway, I ain't worrying about the Synod. God's in charge.
     
    kathy k, Mac and Bartimaeus like this.
  7. Blue Horizon

    Blue Horizon Guest

    In the last year I have softened my attitude to you Mac regardless of whether or not you're a "homo" or an adulterer.

    There is no such thing as same sex marriage so far as I understand high level statements from our Catholic leaders. Are you saying that there are Cardinals who promote this? That's scary.
     
  8. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Mac, I usually agree with much of what you post. I am not sure where you are from (New Zealand I think) but in the U.S. and perhaps other parts of the world calling same sex attracted people "Homos" is generally considered derogatory to them as people. We are supposed to hate the sin but love the sinner. People here who use this language generally dislike them as people whether they are practicing or not.
     
  9. Pijon

    Pijon Principalities

    Pope Francis will defend teaching.
     
  10. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    It's funny, I came back to the faith just a little over a year ago. Pulled back to the faith is more like it. At the beginning of my "reversion" I had two question that bothered me a lot.

    1. How could a loving God send me to Hell when my own parents flawed as they are would never do that no matter how awful I was (And I was).

    2. Why would God create gay people? People with a desire to be with someone who they never can be according to His revealed law.

    Luckily the Blessed Mother has cleared up those two problems and rather quickly along with a multitude of others. Looking back on it though it seems strange to me why the fate of homosexuals would have been one of my two major difficulties with the faith. I am not gay, nor do I know any gay people. There are so many other more pressing question than that.

    I think this worldwide homosexual acceptance explosion this past year is the devil's last attempt to overturn things. He has placed it forefront in everyone's mind. Almost every TV show that has come on here in the U.S. has had a gay character on it.

    So long story short, no my mind has not been softened towards the homosexual agenda. It has been strongly moved in the opposite direction. It definitely seems that the demarcation lines between those for Christ's agenda and those for man's are being drawn. It is as if the devil has been moving in secret for the last century, but suddenly he has thrown off the cape and is acting in the open.

    I am so blessed that God and the Virgin Mary decided to pull me back into their ranks. If my eyes had not been opened, all of these events would be flying by me and I wouldn't even realize it or all of the ramifications. I was blind and now I see.
     
  11. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    Frankly, I'm sick of pretending any longer just to maintain "peace" with Catholics on various social media outlets. This papacy is a disaster on so many levels, and those who continue to defend every single thing "Rome" says and does are being used and played as fools.

    "Rome" has every intention of imposing a wholesale break down of Catholic moral teachings and practices regarding divorce and remarriage, homosexuality, and likely a married priesthood, and those who have bent over backwards to defend "Rome" will be sorely tempted to continue doing so, because
    No. No way. No more.

    Wake up folks, the hour is late.

    Our Lady expects far more from you than acquiescing in the face of this onslaught against orthodoxy and orthopraxis, and staying silent until some vague threshold is crossed is not an option for Our Lady's Knights.

    Fri Aug 7, 2015 - 7:11 pm EST
    The Kasper Revolution spreads

    August 7, 2015 (LifeSiteNews) -- The developments in Europe are accelerating. One statement after another shows how high-ranking bishops and prelates are now publicly opposing the traditional moral teaching of the Catholic Church, which is based upon the teaching of Jesus Christ Himself.

    First, on August 1, the Archbishop of Hamburg, Stefan Heße, came out and defended publicly a liberal attitude toward homosexual couples and “remarried” divorcees. As the official website of the German Bishops' Conference, katholisch.de, reports:

    Even though he [Archbishop Heße] is still somewhat hesitant concerning the “homo-marriage,” Heße also says: “But when these people seek to be close to us, then we as Church are there for them. What else?” The Church has to cherish it when in homosexual relationships there are to be found values such as fidelity and reliability. “In my eyes, this does not minimize the love and fidelity between two people,” according to Heße. He also wishes for the remarried divorcees “livable forms for the Church's recognition and accompaniment,” without thereby giving up the ideal of marriage.

    Then, only a few days later, on August 7, the President of the Swiss Bishops' Conference, Bishop Markus Büchel, came out in a public letter to all co-workers in the pastoral field, defending homosexual couples. After another Swiss bishop, Bishop Vitus Huonder, had publicly spoken about how the Old Testament condemns homosexual practices, Bishop Büchel made a statement distancing himself from such views. In this statement, the Swiss Bishop says:

    For the promotion of the good of the person, it is less decisive whether someone has a hetero- or homosexual inclination; rather, the responsible approach to sexuality and all the other dimensions of a relationship (such as attentiveness, carefulness, respect, or fidelity) is decisive. Here we are permitted, as Catholic faithful, to trust the conscience of each individual. Let us rejoice about every relationship in which the partners accept one another as equal, valuable, beloved children of God and respect the dignity of the other and promote the well-being of the persons!

    Bishop Büchel continues to stress that to respect the dignity of the human person “also means not to reduce a person and his relationships to the mere sexual question.” He also referred, once more, to Jesus' teaching according to which love and affection are predominant. The bishop also stressed that at Biblical times, people did not know that homosexuality is a biological inclination and “not a freely chosen sexual orientation.” These statements are in full accord with the themes and statements of the recent May 25 “Shadow Council” which was organized, among others, by the President of the Swiss Bishops' Conference himself. The German pro-life activist and author, Mathias von Gersdorff, comments upon this statement: “Herewith, he [Büchel] contradicts in a straightforward way the moral teaching on sexuality of the Catholic Church and most probably also the Christian anthropology.”

    Last but not least, a Spanish bishop has today caused a great stir by announcing that he will allow a transsexual to become the godparent at an upcoming baptism. As the Swiss website kath.ch reported, the bishop of Cádiz, Spain, Rafael Zornoza, has given permission to the 21-year-old Alex Salinas to become the godparent of her nephew.

    This decision came after a national petition was launched in defense of Salinas who first had been denied to become a godparent because she does not live according to the Church's moral teaching. More than 35,000 people signed the petition in favor of Salinas. Now the diocese declared that “being transsexual does not constitute a reason for being excluded from the office of a godfather,” as kath.ch reports. Salinas himself comments on the new decision, according to the Spanish newspaper El País:

    I don’t know if the pope saw my petition – I have no knowledge about that – but of course the entire Church is changing. In fact, they just said that divorced Catholics cannot be excommunicated and I think it is wonderful that the Church is taking a new route.
    All these reports come out at a time where Pope Francis himself repeatedly speaks about the importance of welcoming “remarried” divorcees in the parishes and not to have any negative attitude toward them and their children without once mentioning – as a pastor for all – that they live, objectively speaking, in the state of sin. Many concerned Catholics pray and hope that he will soon speak an authoritative word in order to defend, amidst this growing moral anarchy, the teaching of Jesus Christ Himself, as Cardinal Raymond Burke requested nearly a year ago.

     
    Mac likes this.
  12. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

    Im not sure why Pope Francis thinks anyone has a negative attitude towards the remarried divorcees.
    Exactly who are these people that hate sinners?[we are all sinners]
    Hate the sin no longer applies?
     
  13. padraig

    padraig New Member

    I do believe that the Holy Father defends and will defend Church teaching. I always hope people will think the best of me and so I try to think the best of others.
    I think we have a special spiritual duty to extend Charity to a Pontiff
     
  14. padraig

    padraig New Member

    He is our spiritual father
     
  15. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

    The best I can get from Fatima, is pretty much this...

    ''Pray much for the Holy Father'' .
    '' He will have much to suffer.''

    The children seemed to do everything for the Holy Father.

    Was their real concern for some future pontiff really a physical concern?
     
  16. fallen saint

    fallen saint Baby steps :)

    So you are not Catholic...

    Sure, there are some bad bishops and priests but overall the Catholic Church is the last battle ground for the "create one". As easily as you quote garbage, you can easily find quotes from many conservative bishops. I see SOME European Bishops splitting from the true Church, while the African Bishops holding the faith. Are there bad bishops...yes. But they will need to make a choice. Just like YOU. If you are not Catholic then move on. But if you are Catholic then start quoting the good. Sorry for you...that you don't like the Pope. He has been a faithful Vicar of Christ.

    I can't wait for this synod to be over so you can stop this NONE-SENSE. The funny part is, after the synod, you will find something else to make people fall away from the church.

    Brother al

     
    mothersuperior7 likes this.
  17. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

    FS SAID ...I can't wait for this synod to be over so you can stop this NONE-SENSE. The funny part is, after the synod, you will find something else to make people fall away from the church.

    I cant wait also . No more pretence after the Synod.
    Let us at least hold together till after the Synod, till we say who is Catholic. I will happily perform my Mea Culpa
    when Pope Francis defends Church teaching and removes all those Wolves he has promoted for the Synod.
     
  18. davidtlig

    davidtlig Guest

    I hadn't noticed much pretending going on, Brian. As Mark Mallett has so eloquently described in one of his very fine articles, those holding your position (and Mac's and others) have already decided not to follow Peter unless he chooses to see things your way. You are merely following the example of so many over the past 2000 years who have persuaded themselves that Peter has 'got it wrong' this time and so needs to be put aside. You will continue to call yourselves 'Catholics' as so many protestants do but the rejection of Peter is the ultimate rejection of Roman Catholicism. This is your choice, God gives us complete freedom but your posts on this forum are poison and are a fundamental attack on the papacy.
     
  19. Blue Horizon

    Blue Horizon Guest

    Mac re the voting choices...

    If Pope Francis sees himself defending a "teaching" that you regard as not a Church teaching...will you vote a or b?

    How do you see the possibility of "ignorance" (vincible or invincible) at play here?

    If we differ from the Pope on this then who is more likely to suffer from this "ignorance" - us or Pope Francis?

    How do you see the role of the Holy Spirit at play here - is the HS more likely to be guiding Pope Francis or you and me all things being equal (eg the Cardinals are split 50/50) ?
     
  20. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

    Your first problem david is that you dont turn to Catholic leaders to make a point.MM does not qualify.

    Second problem is that you have prejudged Brian an myself as to what Peter will or will not do.

    If we hold to what Peter has always taught , how can we end up in error?
     

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