“I tell you, if these were silent, the very stones would cry out.”

The population control agenda was thankfully, blessedly missing from the Pope's recent encyclical on the environment. But the Instrumentum Laboris of the Synod (on the Family) has as one of its Agenda items "responsible procreation." Another item on the Synod agenda is "birth reduction." Is "breeding like rabbits" and "three are enough" still preoccupying the minds of the men in the Vatican?

Tuesday, June 23, 2015
Please Procreate Responsibly


Were they responsible?

In Chicago, as Frank Sinatra pointed out, men dance with their wives.

Sometimes that leads to other things.

In the great movie Rob Roy, one of the Catholic Highlanders tells this joke at a celebration:
Q: Why are Calvinists against making love standing up?

A: It might lead to dancing. Last night I danced with my wife.
​

Is it always "procreation" or is it only procreation if you find out later that it was?

​

In any case, I didn't think about it. Even once. I don't think she did either.

I went to work without feeling guilty. As I remember, I bought a cup of coffee and a donut.

Do not misunderstand. In other contexts, we often consider the general issue quite thoughtfully. In last night's context, we didn't.

Is that responsible procreation?

Of course, I'm thinking about this against the background of the recently released Instrumentum Laboris of the Synod (on the Family). One of the Agenda Items is "responsible procreation."

I've read that in the early Medieval Church, sometimes it was thought necessary to confess if you had romantic feelings for, and acted on them with, your spouse. Unless of course you had no romantic feelings and were just doing your duty to populate the earth or whatever.

Now (it seems) you have to confess if you only had romantic feelings and were not dutifully thinking of the effects of acting on those feelings on, say, future carbon emissions.

We've come full circle, sort of.

Okay, so I've always wanted to say this:

Hands off my body.
Hands off my wife's body.
And hands off, well, you know.
We'll procreate however we damn well want.

Another item on the Synod agenda is "birth reduction."

I know. I did a double-take on that one too. No doubt there will be more to say about it later. But for now, this will merely have to do:

Hands off my (future) ten-seat van with the Pro-Life stickers...
...you nasty heretical freaks.

By the way, I just learned that the label, "responsible procreation" has occasionally been used by defenders of "traditional marriage" against proponents of "gay marriage." With respect to my Christian brothers and sisters, I think that's bizarre.

Within a Catholic context, that's like using the slogan, "responsible drinking" to defend bars.

I know it depends on how you define the terms, but to me, life itself isn't even "responsible" per se. It isn't controllable. It isn't even manageable.

It's beautiful. It's unpredictable. It's joyful. It's, yes, anarchic. And it's infinitely valuable, whatever some sour post-modernist bishop might say.

And as I recall, some One once "saw that it was very good."

Posted by Oakes Spalding ​

 

One of the Sustainable Development Goals says, "We shall ensure universal access to sexual and reproductive health care services, including for family planning, information and education." So, why did the Vatican Nuncio to the UN give full support to the SDGs, as written?

http://www.lepantoinstitute.org/vat...es-un-sustainable-development-goals-verbatim/

Vatican Representative Endorses UN Sustainable Development Goals, “Verbatim”

Sustainable Development Goals Include Abortion and Contraception
On 22 June, just four days after Pope Francis promulgated the encyclical on the environment, Archbishop Bernardito Auza, Apostolic Nuncio and Permanent Observer of the Holy See to the United Nationsgave a formal statement to the United Nations on the “Zero Draft, Post-2015 Development Agenda.” As an Apostolic Nuncio, the Archbishop represents Pope Francis himself and, in effect, is speaking on his behalf. In his statement he said:

“We support the verbatim inclusion of the sustainable development goals and targets as in the Report of the OWG (Open Working Group).” (emphasis added) Toward the end of the statement, the Archbishop added, “We would strongly encourage the use and coordination of all sources of financing to achieve the SDGs and development in general.”

 

The Nuncio has a warm smile, but I think he needs to have an eye examination. Lord have mercy!

Safe in the Refuge of the Immaculate Heart!

 

The Vatican endorses the UN population control agenda otherwise known as "sustainable development."

Meanwhile Ireland and the USA as nations endorse the oxymoronic concept of "gay marriage."

The Vatican response?

 

The silence is deafening indeed.
The whole concept that Pope Francis is just biding his time so he can separate the wolves from the sheep is beyond a joke . There are no sheep left.
Just this... View attachment 3161

 

Baaa

 

I really wish you could put forth strong and clear messages from Pope Francis ,Joe . I really do . But we both know you cannot. Clearly muddled and confused messages open to interpretation sure.

 

Only muddled and confused to the muddled and confused. To me he is crystal clear and Christ centered.
I'm off to sleep now.

 

Do you not think the majority of catholics are muddled confused about church teaching on moral issues?
or are you only concerned that he is clear to you?

 

Here is what I think is taking place as we witness the purification from heaven its self taking place. I hope I am not wrong, because if I am, it would seem 'the gates of hell' will prevail upon the Church Jesus established.

I have said this before on past posts. I believe Pope Francis is the most shrewd Pope in the history of the papacy instituted by Christ himself. No Pope in history could be pulling off what Pope Francis is doing in this moment in time. Surely not the Popes in my life time or in the past 100 years. There is no argument that Pope Francis was validly elected and thus can never error in matter of faith and morals. So what's up with his confusing and somewhat liberal statements he makes?

I am convinced that he is indeed separating the sheep from the goats. Yes, it is upsetting even the orthodox faithful within the Church because we want the 'black and white' of it all. Pope Francis is giving us more grey then what we like. What he is also doing is giving the dissenters within the rank an open forum to hang themselves in their heresy. He opened the 1st Synod of Bishops with strong language that he wanted everyone to be open to dialog without his heavy handed authority coming down upon them. After all, family life is under attack throughout the world and we need to be open to what the Spirit is telling us. He left allot of open ended discussion to be concluded in the upcoming synod in October 2015. The libs and the media are having their moment and are loving this Pope. One could call it his Palm Sunday moment.

But his passion is to follow once he clarifies the unchanging teachings of the faith at the end of the upcoming synod in 3 months. He will admonish those who dare think that doctrines could change. He will have exposed those within the Vatican, as well as, Cardinals, Bishops and Priests world wide who dared to think God's truth could change. Once this takes place he will be hated by the majority of the world who has all but accepted Sodomy, fornication, adultery, divorce and remarriage etc.. What follows is Cardinal Ratzinger's prophecy in the 1980's "I foresee the Church becoming very small, but very holy".

Pope Francis has said that he sees is pontificate as only lasting 4-5 years or less. He also said he felt he could be martyred. This is why I won't do as some ultra conservative Catholics have done and are doing on MOG forum and lambast our Pope who is being guided by the Holy Spirit. There is really only one question I have for those naysayers.>>>> are you praying and sacrificing for our Pope or are you only criticizing him? What would Jesus do?

 

Please God this is true.

In either case I think spiritually as Catholics we either give our support, trust and loyalty to the Pope, any Pope or we do not.

Sometimes this requires a stepping out in Faith and is not easy. However I have stepped out in Faith in this and he has my heart and prayers.

I do not envy him.

 

I had questions early in his papacy but through prayer I have discerned the wisest path is to trust Pope Francis and stay calm in the safety of the boat.

Pope Francis may be doing what Fatima laid out but I also think he is using the old "you gather more bees with honey approach". I mean he is agreeing with liberals who have turned away from Gods teaching but only agreeing with them in relatively unimportant matters. An example is his encyclical. He agrees with them on climate warming (which I believe is bogus, but isn't important) but he gathers them in there and they like him and listen and he then talks about how if you love and want to save Gods creation of trees (unimportant issue) then of course you should love and want to save Gods creation of an unborn child (the important issue). Very shrewd and he's gathering more of the lost and gaining their trust and respect so they'll listen to him when the storm really hits

 

Hi Mac
I can only share my experience on this. I have never directly heard a bad word about Pope Francis from my fellow parishioners. They love him and think he is doing a great job. There seens to be no confusion in them about his teaching. I have heard of a few who think he is not the real Pope and think Benedict is the only real Pope. These happen to be old people who also, by chance, believe on Medjugorje. (That is no comment on Medjugorje -they also are Legiin of Mary , again not a comment on them) The problem for many, especially young people, is not in confusion but in ignorance. They have not been taught their catechism and in particular they lack an awareness of sin and its consequences. This has been caused by a well intentioned but mistaken drive for popularity and acceptance since numbers have fallen away. The collateral damage this has caused, in my opinion, has arisen from an attempt to replace the image of the church as one that promotes salvation more than hell fire and brimstone, one gives more importance to relationships rather than rules, an attempt to relace the emphasis on fear with love, to replace that of justice with mercy. The cost of the resulting imbalancehas been Truth not in the teaching of the Church but in perception and practice of the Faith. There are many who traipse along in blissfull ignorance. This is not the fault of Pope Francis but that of the educators...priests, parents, teachers etc. This is only how I see it. Perhaps it is only this ignorance that will save them because for mortal sin to be committed it is necessary that it is committed with full knowledge that it is a serious offense, whether or not you agree with that teaching. (I think) Sadly the most common examples of this are missing Sunday Mass, doing servile work on a Sunday, receiving Communion without fasting or confessing serious sin or making an act of contrition, negelect of prayer life, use of contraceptives, not confessing once year, not giving proper financial support to the Church, thinking its ok to have sex outside marriage as long as they love each other (even with homosexuals), that masturbation is just a natural and therefore good way to release tension and frustration etc etc. The list is endless especially where sex is concerned. Its 6.30 Saturday morning and I have to go and face the dreaful paper work now. So in summary I do not think Pope Francis has caused confusion but ignorance has caused many to lose the Faith while still thinking they are doing no wrong. Please excuse the rushed tone of this. I have not revised before posting and I wont have time to reply before tomorrow Mac.
Have a good week end

 

I think on this forum (and on other Catholic sites ) we've been through this discussion ad nauseam. IMO there is not just questions raised by some, but at least what I perceive as hostility and even accusatory tones toward the Pope. Yes, I know, you have the "right" to do this-so please go ahead. But, again my perception first off is that Francis has not said anything that leads me to question his support of the key tenets of the Faith. Is his style unorthodox? Does he perhaps speak off the cuff too much? Maybe he does. But I also say that most of what we read and know of Francis comes to us filtered either through MSM or Catholic sites on both ends of the spectrum. How many of us actually read his original texts and understand what he says in context and not what us reported by some media source? I admit, I don't get to read as much of his speeches or writing directly, but the few that I do appear very orthodox and quite frankly not drafting much from his two immediate predecessors.

Interesting we are discussing this today, the Feast of St. Thomas the Apostle. As we know, he is the famous "doubter". To me he doubted mainly because of his pride ( something I can very much relate to). When the 11 told Thomas they saw Jesus after the resurrection, I think his pride got in the way. He couldn't believe it even though Jesus told them it would happen, that he was alive. Thomas had his own sense of what was to happen -in a sense Thomas felt he knew better than God. Of course when he saw and placed his fingers in the nail marks and heard Jesus, he understood- his pride melted away and he could say, "My Lord and my God". I take a great lesson from today's Gospel. I may not understand Francis and in fact, perhaps might not think he is taking the right steps. BUT, I need to eave my pride aside and remember and recognize that he was duly elected as Pope. My faith is not per se in Francis or any Pope for that matter , but in the Holy Spirit that guided the election and who guides the Church. So on this feast where we celebrate an apostle who initially didn't trust God, I pray that I and all of us trust him now more than ever.

View attachment 3163 View attachment 3164

 

This is the shadow agenda going into the Synod this fall. The divorce and remarriage debate is just a stalking horse for their real agenda:

http://www.churchmilitant.com/news/article/vatican-website-posts-image-of-lesbians-kissing
Vatican Website Posts Photo of Lesbians Kissing

Accompanying article claims sexual morality is "in motion"
VATICAN CITY, July 7, 2015 (ChurchMilitant.com) - The Vatican Radio website — an official site of the Holy See — has posted an image of lesbians kissing, accompanied by an article quoting a liberal theologian titled "Church Sexual Morality Is in Motion."

The photo (partially redacted here) is posted on the German portion of the website, and the article quotes Martin Lintner, president of the European Society for Catholic Theology, who claims that sexuality will be "increasingly perceived in its personal and holistic dimension."



There has been a move away from a traditional understanding of the sexual act as procreative towards a more personalistic view, Lintner continues, and it's this mediation between the two different views of sex that is "difficult" with regard to homosexual acts. He claims the Synod on the Family has evidenced a "rethinking" of the Church's approach toward homosexuals.

ChurchMilitant.com contacted Vatican Radio Friday asking it to remove the offensive image, and Vatican journalist Edward Pentin tweeted about the photo. The image was taken down the next day, only to be back up on the site Monday.

To voice your complaint to Vatican Radio, please write: deutsch@vatiradio.va

UPDATE: Immediately after this article was published, the Vatican Radio website removed the offending image.

 

'Scandalous changes for Church'...Pope Francis.

I am going to be honest this discourse by the Holy Father terrifies me and causes my heart to sink:

http://edition.cnn.com/2015/07/06/world/pope-ecuador-scandalous/

(CNN)Hinting that changes could be coming to the Catholic Church, Pope Francis asked a large crowd to pray for God to make miracles out of ideas that some believers might consider "impure" or even "threatening."

"I ask you to pray fervently for this intention," the Pope continued, "so that Christ can take even what might seem to us impure, scandalous or threatening, and turn it ... into a miracle. Families today need miracles!"

This terrifies me. I begin to wish that God would call me home and let me leave this world.

 

This CNN talking, I listened to the Mass yesterday I didn't hear him quoted quite the same way. CNN is a gay marriage advocate so...

his quote in a better context, CNN left a few words out.
During a Mass said on Monday, the first full day of his visit to Ecuador, Pope Francis called for prayers that the upcoming Synod on the Family might discern the needs of the family, an institution irreplaceable to society.

“The Church will celebrate the Ordinary Synod devoted to the family, deepen her spiritual discernment and consider concrete solutions to the many difficult and significant challenges facing families in our time,” the Pope said during his July 6 homily.

“I ask you to pray fervently for this intention, so that Christ can take even what might seem to us impure, scandalous or threatening, and turn it – by making it part of his 'hour' – into a miracle.”

The family “cannot be replaced by other institutions,” he added. For this reason, “it needs to be helped and strengthened, lest we lose our proper sense of the services which society as a whole provides.”

very clear difference to me, I have NO worries about papa Francis

Pray that the family synod will deepen the Church's spiritual discernment, Pope asks
Guayaquil, Ecuador, Jul 6, 2015 / 01:11 pm (EWTN News/CNA

 

Homily contd....its really good

In his homily, the Pope reminded the faithful that the family is a small “domestic Church.”

“When we experience the love of our parents, we feel the closeness of God’s love,” the Roman Pontiff said.

“In our own families and in the greater family to which we all belong, nothing is thrown away, nothing is useless.”

Pope Francis centered his remarks on St. John's Gospel account of the wedding at Cana, which was read during the Mass. The scene recounts Mary telling Christ that their hosts have run out of wine, to which he responds that it is not yet “his hour” – a reference to his forthcoming Passion.

“Mary’s maternal concern is seen in her plea to Jesus,” the Pope said.

“The wedding at Cana is repeated in every generation, in every family, in every one of us and our efforts to let our hearts find rest in strong, fruitful and joyful love.”

Pope Francis invited the faithful to “journey with (Mary) to Cana” by following her example as shown in this scene, first by reflecting on her attentiveness to the needs of others.

During the wedding scene, Mary notices that her hosts have run out of wine which, the Pope said, “is a sign of happiness, love and plenty.”

He compared the Gospel passage to those within families who have run out of this “wine” – people who feel unloved or neglected, or who suffer difficulties such as unemployment or illness.

“How many elderly people feel left out of family celebrations, cast aside and longing each day for a little love?” he said.

In contrast, through her attentiveness and concern, Mary demonstrates her maternal nature toward others, Pope Francis said.

“Mary is not a 'demanding' mother, a mother-in-law who revels in our lack of experience, our mistakes and the things we forget to do,” the Pope said. “Mary is a Mother! She is there, attentive and concerned.”

Pope Francis then reflected on the example of confidence with which Mary approached Christ at the wedding feast.

“Mary prays. She does not go to the steward, she immediately tells her Son of the newlyweds’ problem.”

She receives the seemingly disheartening response from Christ, who says: “What does it have to do with you and me? My hour has not yet come.”

Despite this reply, the Gospel recounts how Mary tells the servants to do as Christ tells them, bringing him large jugs of water which he changes into wine.

In this scene, Mary “places the problem in God’s hands,” the Pope said. “Her concern to meet the needs of others hastens Jesus’ hour. Mary was a part of that hour, from the cradle to the cross.”

“She accepted us as her sons and daughters when the sword pierced her heart. She teaches us to put our families in God’s hands, to pray, to kindle the hope which shows us that our concerns are also God’s concerns.”

Having reflected on Mary's example of prayer in Cana, Pope Francis spoke of the role of prayer within the family.

“The family is a school where prayer also reminds us that we are not isolated individuals; we are one and we have a neighbour close at hand: he or she is living under the same roof, is a part of our life, and is in need.”

Finally, Pope Francis observed how Mary acts, demonstrating how service, which is “the sign of true love,” is learned within the family.

In telling the servants to “do whatever he tells you,” Mary is giving “an invitation to us to open our hearts to Jesus, who came to serve and not to be served,” the Pope said.

“We learn this especially in the family, where we become servants out of love for one another. In the heart of the family, no one is rejected.”

“The family is the nearest hospital, the first school for the young, the best home for the elderly.”

Pope Francis concluded by turning back to the narrative of the wedding at Cana, and how, thanks to Mary, everyone could enjoy the “finest of wines,” especially those without hope.

“The time is coming when we will taste love daily, when our children will come to appreciate the home we share, and our elderly will be present each day in the joys of life,” the Pope said.

“The best wine is yet to come for those who today feel hopelessly lost … whisper it to the hopeless and the loveless. God always seek out the peripheries, those who have run out of wine, those who drink only of discouragement.”

http://www.ewtnnews.com/catholic-news/Americas.php?id=12329

 

Trust your instincts and intuition; Anyone who fails to have this reaction IMO is just not paying attention.