CDF reaches negative judgment on Medjugorje, Italian journalists report

Maryrose, there could not be a bigger opponent of Medjugorje than me. I have looked at the evidence carefully and found it wanting in the extreme. However, I wholeheartedly agree with you that not a single one of us should be happy if anyone's faith is trampled on or damaged due to a possible negative judgement by the Pope.

I purposely didn't take part in the discussion of the leaked document because it was not anything official from the Vatican. I am glad I did not. I am trying to teach myself humility and charity as you suggest and believe me it is very difficult sometimes.

Above all we are Christian brothers and sisters here in a very real way. I think we all need to start realizing we are on the same team and that team is getting smaller by the day. In the words of Benjamin Franklin "We must all hang together, or assuredly we will all hang separately." This applies to us as Catholics in a very real way today and in the near future. Just look at our poor brethren in the Middle east and Africa. They are already being martyred and crucified literally. I am sure our enemy is laughing at us as we sit here and bicker with each other. May God bless all of us here on both sides of this issue, for we are all seeking the truth.

 

#1. My reply simply added the facts of Church history on the question of judgements within the realm of private revelations. They HAVE been re-examined.....or we wouldn't have the saving grace of the devotion to the Divine Mercy now. I can't help it if you are disappointed with those facts. I had nothing to do with them. In fact for many I wasn't even in existence. In many areas the Church herself has admitted to errors in judgment. The fullness of Fatima's meaning is still dividing people while not denying the Church's basic approval of its worthiness and people want you to think that Medj is the only one ever to cause division in opinion and that's somehow "bad fruit"? You could probably say the same thing about most authentic ones while they were still being assessed.

#2. This discussion isn't about the ultimate question of Faith but in the different character of private revelations and their built in limitations. No one is talking about faith in apparitions as fundamental and the very mention of the limitations to "apparitions" proves that. So no need to be concerned on that point. They can be further helps to waning faith in some and a boost to the spirit but that is why the Church gives more freedom to people when it comes to private revelation. And yet they can be directions for specific times and sent from heaven out of love for the discouraged or a correction to error in those times. From history we see that easily dismissing such help has resulted in their very warnings actually coming to pass when it didn't have to be that way.

My replies may be "long" but that is due to not wishing to be glib about serious subjects or take the easy way out of ad hominem attacks rather than measuring and comparing facts.

 

Antonio Socci the well known Fatima Journalist has a very interesting take on Medjugorje and its messages and he usually has the most recent information doing the rounds in Rome.

My editorial today on "FREE" http://www.antoniosocci.com/il-segreto-la-madonna-e-il-va.../...

Automatically translated

THE SECRET (the Madonna and the Vatican) - The Stranger
In recent days Medjugorje on a war broke out between Vatican experts. According to some of them, Wednesday, June 24, to be held the general assembly of the ...
ANTONIOSOCCI.COM

 

I've hashed and rehashed both Garabandal and Medjugorje and I've come to peace to accept them both. If in the future the Church makes a decision I'm at peace with that also. If you look at Medjugorje and it messages...it all about conversion of heart back to God. Conversion is a process...thus conversion takes time. Our Lady is a mother who takes her child's hand to lead them to God. So the problem with it being 30 or 40 years long just shows our Blessed Mother helping us on the way. I feel positive rulings are in store for both apparitions but we must be patient and see them to the end.

 

I read the Medjugorie messages each month and am open to them. I too await the Church decision. Having said that, and asking that for purpose of my question that you accept them as true, the message given on June 25, 2015 appears to be a huge warning. I've noted that often in these messages, Mary asks us to pray for "peace". In fact, I associate Medjugorie more with peace than anything else. Is it important then , that in this message, Mary said to pray for no "war"? In fact, I don't recall if she said the word"war" before- maybe she has - but I think it's rare. Maybe those of you who are closer followers would know? In any event, with all going on in the world, I took her use of the word "war" very seriously.

“Dear children! Also today the Most High gives me the grace to be able to love you and to call you to conversion. Little children, may God be your tomorrow and not war and lack of peace; not sorrow but joy and peace must begin to reign in the heart of every person - but without God you will never find peace. Therefore, little children, return to God and to prayer so that your heart may sing with joy. I am with you and I love you with immeasurable love. Thank you for having responded to my call.”

 

VATICAN – MEDIA MANIPULATED POPE’S COMMENTS ON MEDJUGORJE

http://www.nationalmedjugorjemoveme...a-manipulated-popes-statements-on-medjugorje/

 

I think you have a point here, miker. The search facilities for the Medjugorje messages are not the best but, as far as I have been able to find, this new message that you quote is the first time 'war' has been used. Despite the many messages given while the Bosnian war raged, none of them made mention of 'war'.

 

Thanks David. If this is the first time or one of the very few times that Our Lady specifically mentions "war", I would take this as a very serious message.

 

Hey Miker, I checked the word war in the Virgin Mother's messages and found a total of 8. She mentioned it once in 1991 and 1992, 2 times in 1993 and once in 1994 (referring to the Bosnian war) and once in 2001 and the last time before this last message was in January of this year
Dear children! Also today I call you: live your vocation in prayer. Now, as never before, Satan wants to suffocate man and his soul by his contagious wind of hatred and unrest. In many hearts there is no joy because there is no God or prayer. Hatred and war are growing from day to day. I am calling you, little children, begin anew, with enthusiasm, the walk of holiness and love; since I have come among you because of this. Together let us be love and forgiveness for all those who know and want to love only with a human love and not with that immeasurable love of God to which God calls you. Little children, may hope in a better tomorrow always be in your heart. Thank you for having responded to my call. ”

I would kindly ask that the title of this thread be changed because the rumor that went out that the CDF had reached a conclusion was not substantiated.

 

I personally have only has a passing interest in Medjugorje and for that matter most unapproved private revelations concerning Mary.

My only 2 cents is it feels like our faith can become too "overt". Mary always speaking through someone in a far off land. Seriously how many private Marian revelations are currently going on? 4-6? Or more? The feeling that we are almost called to find out what Jesus and Mary have to say by going on the Internet before praying and trusting. Jesus and Mary speak to us in quiet whispers when in a prayerful state of grace correct? My fear is the abundance of messages even telling all Christians to do this very things we know we should do privately can still lead to an unhealthy desire for overt messages.

I admit to being drawn to this very thing, what is heaven saying? What is the near future bringing for the world? Etc. I have to keep reminding myself Jesus is my personal saviour and Mary my personal spiritual mother. This is where faith really starts and ends isn't it?

 

I agree with you MMM and I too am drawn to reading from current potential prophecy. I think it is ok to do so as long as it is not the sole source of our faith and prayer. Like you mentioned Jesus is all we need to believe in, trust in and have faith in but Jesus is still teaching and speaking and coming to many in dreams as well as speaking to us through His Mother, His angels and the saints in heaven. We all feel we are in the end times or at least an end of an era of Satan's reign and because of this I think it is important to listen to this and read but we must do so carefully and we must not make it the focal point of our lives. We were told this would happen so I for one continue to listen because I feel if we were told this would come then we were told for a reason and I believe that reason is to listen to what God is saying/showing:

Acts 2:
[16] But this is that which was spoken of by the prophet Joel: [17] And it shall come to pass, in the last days, (saith the Lord,) I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams. [18] And upon my servants indeed, and upon my handmaids will I pour out in those days of my spirit, and they shall prophesy. [19] And I will shew wonders in the heaven above, and signs on the earth beneath: blood and fire, and vapour of smoke. [20] The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, before the great and manifest day of the Lord come. [21] And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord, shall be saved.

 

Let me quickly apologise for giving such an inaccurate response to miker! Mary Ann, which search facility did you use for your search? I also agree with you that the title of the thread is most unfortunate but that whole reporting that started the thread came straight from the devil.

 

David, This is the place http://www.medjugorje.ws/ Have a great day!

 

I would think that if Medjugorje is authentic, which I believe it is, it will soon be manifested if the world in only a few months (according to many prophecies) from now will be changed forever. It would do little good to receive messages after they occur.

 

I think you will find that most of the results you found were not actual messages. There seem to be only two messages that have the word 'war'. In addition to the recent one that miker quotes, the only other one is from earlier this year, January 25, 2015

 

I wasn't sure what you meant so I copied the messages about war. Our Lady doesn't say ' Bosnian' war in the 1990's messages, I inferred that. The 1992 message regarding fasting and prayers to stop war is an often-cited message. I have followed along for years and will abide by whatever the Church decides.
Medjugorje Message, September 25, 2001
“Dear children! Also today I call you to prayer, especially today when Satan wants war and hatred. I call you anew, little children: pray and fast that God may give you peace. Witness peace to every heart and be carriers of peace in this world without peace. I am with you and intercede before God for each of you. And you do not be afraid because the one who prays is not afraid of evil and has no hatred in the heart. Thank you for having responded to my call. ”

February 25, 1994

“Dear children! Today I thank you for your prayers. All of you have helped me so that this war may end as soon as possible. I am close to you and I pray for each one of you and I beg you: pray, pray, pray. Only through prayer can we defeat evil and protect all that Satan wants to destroy in your lives. I am your Mother and I love you all equally, and I intercede for you before God. Thank you for having responded to my call. ”


October 25, 1993
“Dear children! These years I have been calling you to pray, to live what I am telling you, but you are living my messages a little. You talk, but do not live, that is why little children, this war is lasting so long. I invite you to open yourselves to God and in your hearts to live with God, living the good and giving witness to my messages. I love you and wish to protect you from every evil, but you do not desire it. Dear children, I cannot help you if you do not live God's commandments, if you do not live the mass, if you do not give up sin. I invite you to be apostles of love and goodness. In this world of unrest give witness to God and God's love, and God will bless you and give you what you seek from Him. Thank you for having responded to my call. ”


March 25, 1993


“Dear children! Today like never I call you to pray for peace, for peace in your hearts, peace in your families and peace in the whole world, because Satan wants war, wants lack of peace, wants to destroy all which is good. Therefore, dear children, pray, pray, pray. Thank you for having responded to my call. ”


April 25, 1992


“Dear children! Today also I invite you to prayer. Only by prayer and fasting can war be stopped. Therefore, my dear little children, pray and by your life give witness that you are mine and that you belong to me, because Satan wishes in these turbulent days to seduce as many souls as possible. Therefore, I invite you to decide for God and He will protect you and show you what you should do and which path to take. I invite all those who have said "yes" to me to renew their consecration to my Son Jesus and to His Heart and to me so we can take you more intensely as instruments of peace in this unpeaceful world. Medjugorje is a sign to all of you and a call to pray and live the days of grace that God is giving you. Therefore, dear children, accept the call to prayer with seriousness. I am with you and your suffering is also mine. Thank you for having responded to my call. ”


December 25, 1991


“Dear children! Today in a special way I bring the little Jesus to you, that He may bless you with His blessing of peace and love. Dear children, do not forget that this is a grace which many people neither understand nor accept. Therefore, you who have said that you are mine, and seek my help, give all of yourself. First of all, give your love and example in your families. You say that Christmas is a family feast. Therefore, dear children, put God in the first place in your families, so that He may give you peace and may protect you not only from war, but also in peace protect you from every satanic attack. When God is with you, you have everything. But when you do not want Him, then you are miserable and lost, and you do not know on whose side you are. Therefore, dear children, decide for God. Then you will get everything. Thank you for having responded to my call. ”

 

This site has a good search engine for messages: but as I look a it, it has used all words containing war in them towards, ect.

Search the Messages - war - Medjugorje.com

 

Oh dear, I need to apologize yet again! I really don't know why those messages did not appear in my results when I used the facility but life is too short to worry about it... Thank you for going to the trouble of posting all these.

 

Exactly, Peace. Also I do not think that MAry picked the Balkans for nothing. It is the bridge between East and West.

 

ALL available messages of alleged Gospa:
http://www.medjugorje.eu/messages/

Just make the search.

Certainly there is some more in the archives of bishop of Mostar and maybe elsewhere. There is not many mentions of "war" in those messages and when it is used in some messages, it doesn't necessarily mean armed conflict (sorry, I don't know the exact expression in English) but I mean 'pum pum'.