For me I feel that this debate gets so complicated when it should be so simple. Complications, confusion and the cause for years of heated debate on this topic can not come from heaven but from Satan. If Mary at Fatima wanted the whole world to be consecrated to her which would include Russia obviously, then she would have said "world" but she did not, she said "Russia". So now here we are continuing to argue over something that would seem rather simple. Since Russia has never been named like she asked then how could it have been done through some technicality in this case. Further she asked for this consecration to be done by the Pope and ALL the Bishops of the world. This has not happened so how can we say that in 1984 she changed her mind and accepted this? Also, as I have brought up before, every person in the world was consecrated to Mary in 1942 by Pope Pius XII and then again he specifically consecrated all the peoples of Russia in July 1952 and yet these were not considered valid. So why would the 1984 consecration be valid then if the 1942 and 1952 were not? Neither of these 3 consecrations have had full Bishop support or have named Russia specifically so the simple logic is that it has not been done as Our Mother has requested. Our Lady then said to Sister Lucy: The moment has come when God asks the Holy Father to make, in union with all the bishops of the world, the consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart, promising to save it by this means. So numerous are the souls which the justice of God condemns for sins committed against Me, that I come to ask for reparation. Sacrifice yourself for this intention and pray.2
Also 13 November 1965, last apparition in Garabandal, 13 October 2013, consecration of the world to Our Lady, made by Pope Francis. 13 October 1973 message about a world wide chastisement in Akyta. In 13 october 2017, 100 years anniversary of the miracle of the sun, an apcalyptic sign to many.
The most recent Fatima Crusader magazine (free on-line) has some timely articles on the consecration and its need to act now http://www.fatimacrusader.com/cr109/toc109.asp
I'm very sorry to see Charlie's response here that you quoted too. Yes, its that simple. Russia has not been consecrated. Cardinal Ratzinger admitted this at the press conference at the Vatican in the year 2000 when the "Third Secret" was "revealed." Here's the video in which Chris Ferrara reads from the transcript of that news conference the words of Cardinal Ratzinger himself concerning the consecration, beginning at 48:50 but especially right at 50:00 minutes into the video: Regarding a question about Fr. Gruner, Cardinal Ratzinger answers the reporter: "I think that he should conform himself to the magisterium of the Church, recognizing that the Consecration of Russia is done according to the will of the Madonna, and that he should leave it to the Magisterium of the Church to find the right moment." He was saying in the year 2000 that the Magisterium had not yet found the right moment, that the Consecration of Russia has not been done. Cardinal Ratzinger goes on (in the transcript): "He could make this proposal [i.e., the Consecration of Russia] but he should also be capable of being sufficiently generous to accept that the Magisterium has her reasons to not do it immediately, but to wait a little, and above all for the maturation of the process of the three shepherds."
I'm going to give Charlie a break on this one. There are many good Catholics who have bought the line that Cardinal Bertone (at the time, Father Bertone) alone sold to the press, starting with the Vatican press as well as EWTN and Father Fox and his Fatima Family Apostolate. Perhaps 30 years ago he was more believable, at least up and until other scholars did their research on this issue, which brought solid argument against his and only his statement. It is plain to see that Russia is not converted, with millions and millions of abortions since 1984, only 10% go to Church monthly and 22% are atheist there.
Definitely. It just serves as a reminder that Popes are only infallible in matters of Faith and Morals and are not protected from making bad prudential decisions and judgments, that Church approved visionaries are not infallible, and that the prophets of our day must be tested too and both their messages and their opinions are to be carefully discerned. Even canonized Saints have been incorrect in their assumptions and prudential judgments at times.
Sure , its fine he holds a different less informed view. But I have a short fuse when these sort of old arguements a rolled out 'ad nauseam'... Charlie...'smacks of the worst sort of disobedience. It is not Catholic at all, just a subtle form of protestant dissent, claiming to be more Catholic than the Pope united with the bishops of the world.'
Actually I looked up what Charlie can tell us about the third secret and his understanding in hindsight is pretty woeful... "The assassination attempt against John Paul II and its timing identify him as the Pope of Fatima, but it is not the point of this secret," says Johnston. "The ascent up the hill represents this Pope's particular mission. The city which lies half in ruins is Christianity, half of which no longer believes in God, but says Jesus was a good moral teacher. The corpses the Pope meets and prays for on his way are those who, though they breathe, are spiritually dead. The cross at the top of the hill is the end of the Pope's mission on earth. It represents both his triumph and his death to this world. He kneels before it offering his work to Christ. It is after this triumph that the terror begins. It is the body of the Pope's work that the soldiers fire at. That they are in uniform shows that it is an organized effort. These are the legions who have given themselves over to Satan. But the Pope has his legions as well. They are priests, bishops, religious and laity who joined themselves to him and followed him on his way. They will be true champions for Christ as the battle is joined. Prominent among them will be some of the dead souls -- the corpses -- reborn to spiritual life through the Pope's prayers." I can see why he would rather it all go away.And label those interested disobedient.
To be fair Mac the revealed 'secret' can be interpreted in multiple ways just like the parables of Jesus. There are often layers of meaning in Holy Scriptures; in the parables of Jesus and in prophetic images. So this is a fair interpretation in my opinion and represents Charlie's prayerful reflections. I remain open to other interpretations as well.
Sure Garabandal, but Charlie doesnt say its just his interpretation.He tell's people how it is. And so he should if he is receiving messages. This just shows he is not. Charlie has the whole thing played out under Pope John Paul II. Which is clearly false. Just ask Benedict
OK . Ill give it a go. Just for you Bobby. But it will only be my opinion [sadly no locutions for this sinner] Will think about and post tomorrow . Just for interest sake.
I think Charlie is just giving the interpretation that came from Cardinal Bertone when he released the 3rd secret of Fatima message publicly back in June 2000 by: Tarcisio Bertone, SDB Archbishop Emeritus of Vercelli Secretary of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/c...on_cfaith_doc_20000626_message-fatima_en.html Again, the damage/deciet that Cardinal Bertone did while at the highest office under the pope at the vatican is just now being manifested.
Please look at this again: "The cross at the top of the hill is the end of the Pope's mission on earth. It represents both his triumph and his death to this world. He kneels before it offering his work to Christ. It is after this triumph that the terror begins. It is the body of the Pope's work that the soldiers fire at. That they are in uniform shows that it is an organized effort. These are the legions who have given themselves over to Satan. But the Pope has his legions as well. They are priests, bishops, religious and laity who joined themselves to him and followed him on his way. They will be true champions for Christ as the battle is joined. Prominent among them will be some of the dead souls -- the corpses -- reborn to spiritual life through the Pope's prayers." St. Faustina wrote that a spark from Poland will lead the Church to the second coming of Christ. Charlie talks about this Saint's body of work, which is still under attack, and is still bearing great fruit (i.e. the theology of the body, the rebirth of vocations, naming the culture of death, etc.) . There is no telling how many spiritual sons and daughters of Pope Saint John Paul II are mighty warriors for the Blessed Mother today. I got to witness the resurrection breath he gave to the youth of the Church in Denver in 1993. For example, the girl standing next to me at his Mass in Cherry Creek Park is today a Sister who is doing courageous work for unity in Israel. Proclaiming that Charlie is not receiving messages is a bold act, and, I believe, a reckless one. I wouldn't want to be responsible for turning even one person away from an authentic prophetic voice in this time.
After the two parts which I have already explained, at the left of Our Lady and a little above, we saw an Angel with a flaming sword in his left hand; flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire; but they died out in contact with the splendour that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand: pointing to the earth with his right hand, the Angel cried out in a loud voice: ‘Penance, Penance, Penance!'. And we saw in an immense light that is God: ‘something similar to how people appear in a mirror when they pass in front of it' a Bishop dressed in White ‘we had the impression that it was the Holy Father'. Other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark; before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions. Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to ' we saw an Angel with a flaming sword in his left hand; flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire; but they died out in contact with the splendour that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand' So an angel is about to set the world on fire. This is something we have heard before,from other messages.Fire from the sky [Akita],lightning bolts of divine justice,[bl Elizabeth] among some. But in this vision Our Mother turns away this chastisement, and gives us more time. Time for penance. Has this already passed? I don't know. I believe Our Lady saved us from nuclear war in June 1984 thanks to the effort of Pope John Paul II with his 1984 consecration of the world. http://www.nytimes.com/1984/07/11/world/soviet-naval-blast-called-crippling.html And I am grateful for the extra time. 1984 not a good year for me to have died. We will not know until our judgement how many times She has saved us ,and will save us. To be continued
Just as a side note , for those who hold Malachi Martin in high esteem, he said if the 3rd secret were revealed the churches would be filled with penitents. The release of this text barely raised an eyebrow. And Sr Lucia took 3 months to put the secret to paper ,and only then with a visit from Our Lady to strengthen her , because of the content. Sr lucia lived through world wars and was shown a vision of hell. I cant see anything in this that was so difficult to relay. We still need the missing message.
