Two young Irish men explain how modern catechesis completely failed them and their generation - so they got their catechesis from Michael Voris instead. I have extremely mixed feelings about this, but too busy to explain now. Hint: a certain sweetness found at this forum seems missing to me.
I like Michael Voris, and have watched lots of his videos on youtube. His Vortex series is interesting and controversial, but I find myself agreeing with him on a lot of issues, in spite of his tough tough style. I have to agree with you on the above video. I watched about 20 mins as Im pushed for time today. Something doesnt sit quite right with me about the whole attitude of the two lads. Very anti Novos Ordo. sounds almost like PPX Society. I was a bit shocked by a remark made by one of the lads: Did Sr. Lucia of Fatima really say that Vatican II had "diabolical influences" as suggested by one of the two lads??
I am beginning to see how confusion among believers is going to increase. I have expressed some concerns about Micheal Voris elsewhere but it is undoubtedly the case that, for the most part, he does state forcefully what most faithful Catholics do believe. But there is error mixed in with some of what he says and I found a YouTube video listing some of the errors. I was about to post the video here but then discovered that it was published by a conservative channel that views Pope Francis as an anti-pope!
I watched that video and have to agree with a lot of what those lads say, there are a few bits unsettling but in general I agree. I do think I have a similar story to them, similar age maybe plus a few years, from rural Ireland and have spoken to quite a few people over the years about the faith. But always found it difficult to know where to send people, especially people who were back almost starting from scratch, people who could not even remember an act of contrition. Its easy to say go back to confession, mass and things like read the bible but there are so many diversions and false prophets now, so many snares of the devil. I always wondered what support the Catholic Church in Ireland has for people returning after many years away, people who have a lot of questions. Big questions such as evolution, sin, and much more.
OK, so what are these 'troubling things' and errors? If you consider that Bishop Hubbard (see separate thread) considered himself to be a 'bishop of Vatican II' with all his troubling actions and expressed views, it is little wonder that the 'fruits' of the council, such as his episcopacy, are questioned by many faithful Catholics.
Saying that there is nothing wrong with people who have had mystical conversions and also have a lot of love in their loves either. There are also quite a few young people with great faith going to novus ordo mass. The lads do seem to have some more maturing to do in their faith.
If a convert was to ask me I would say get to daily mass and communion, get to confession every week, pray, pray the roasary, if they can fast as often as they can (at least on Wednesdays and Fridays) get a really holy spiritual director. (if they can). I would encourage them to stay away from controversial, negative sites, especially on the internet and to avoid controversary like the plague. To get their heads down and open their hearts to grace and holiness. Leter on when they have put roots down maybe then move on to heavier meat. But you don't wish to send a young tree out into a heavy storm, it will just get knocked over. In fact a lot of this avoiding controversary stuff is good advise for older more mature Catholics too. I think in the Imitation of Christ too the wise old sage warns of avoiding the heavy weather stuff. We will none of us be sent the to hell for the bad things other folks do. I wish Michael Voris would spend some time pointing the finger at a few saints we couldadmire and some postive things going on. I understand he has a Prophetic role, but too much of the Jeremiah stuff can give gives indigestion. I find so many people I admire are kinda falling a little by the wayside. There was a brilliant young Catholic convert I loved to read on a website called , 'Ascending Mount Carmel' . http://ascentofcarmel.blogspot.co.uk/ I see he has left us to join the Orthodox, Sigh. I do not condemn him, it just makes me sad. Then there was Fr Corpi and Fr Barron hitting the ropes. It reminds me it is Jesus always Jesus we should follow. Sad complicated foggy times, full of dark drifting mists, like walking through a fog on a boggy mountain road at nighttime. I would advise anyone to pray and follow Christ and make that their main concern. Prayer, prayer, prayer and more prayer. The mas, the rosary, confession and fasting. Let these be our light. Keep it simple.
I watched the video above. Is it really this bad in Ireland? If so, I had no idea it is that bad. I knew France is really bad, as I have a niece who is a Sister in the order of St. John there and she has said, hardly any there, especially the youth know anything about the Catholic faith or Christianity. I guess I have nothing to complain about in the US, as it is no where close to what these two young men explain in their country. I am stunned! These two young men need to be introduced to www.motheofgod.com
Then it is similar in other European countries. It is the same in Slovenia, just add hatred toward the Church and mockery to everyone who exposes themselves as a Christian.
I don't recognise some of the things they are saying. But I am from the North of Ireland rather than the South. I can't for instance imagine a priest who did not know scripture. I can't help thinking this may be an exaggeration. I have never seen clowns at mass, thought I have seen pictures of clown masses in France several years ago on the net. I regularly see folks kneeling for communion without fuss or comment. Most of the Church music I hear is pretty traditional ..and so on. I certainly don't write of the clergy, I might not always agree with everything they say but on the whole I admire them. I think sometimes the world we see can be as we choose to see it and if we have a negative view everything we see will appear in a negative light. Rather as if we look through green glass and so the world becomes green. They were two nice young lads but at an early stage in the Faith journey. I would encourage them to look for the positive a lot more. For instance have a look around them at the many saints going about. Stay behind after mass as I do and look at some of the people praying. I always find this mind blowing. Saints, saints , saints. But if you look only for the negative the negative is all you will ever find. How does that old saying go, 'Two men looked from prison bars, one saw mud; the other stars' I am not blind to the faults but I am full of joy and hope; I hope these two young men can find things the same. Lets prefer to look at the stars, they are far more beautiful. Also I think reality has far more to do with the stars than the mud. View attachment 1708
Clowns acting out the stations of the cross is not uncommon in the US. It has happened in my parish more than once. We even have Santa Claus visit Mass and kneel before the manger scene. I think these two lads were spot on, as to what they are witnessing. They do see the hope as they talked about it, but it is in very limited areas. Pointing out the errors in the faith, or lack of faith, is not wanting to see only dark. It is seeing what is real at the moment and wanting nothing of it. It is exposing the darkness, so the cracks of light can begin to shine through. I think we need more young men of zeal in the faith. They will make some over zealous mistakes along the way...... but hey, that is how you grow in humility and service of the Lord.
I notice at work how many young people believe the stuff put out by Info Wars and the redoubtable Alec Jones. Thus 9/11 was carried out by the USA Government, the guys in black helicopters are coming to kill us and so on. Right across the internet it is the same. So the pyramids are actually alien space ships, there are a small group of mind control freaks controlling the entire planet and so. The lack of discrimination occurs sometimes to us all but I think very, very often to the young who have not yet quite learnt to take things with a pinch of salt quite as much as older folks. I know I have many times been taken in by stuff I have swallowed whole on the web. I think one clue as to where these two young guys are coming from was when they claimed that no priest they met understood scripture. Well this is something Evangelicals have been claiming about , 'Gullible' Catholics since the Reformation and is something that has stuck since their Evangelical Period. I am not saying everything they say is wrong just that well they are young and clearly impressionable. The picture they painted of the Faith in Ireland is not one I could accept. It reminds me very much in fact of my own fathers attitude ,who God love him and the certainly that everything was sinking and sinking very fast. I think maybe Michael Voris himself could have been a little more discerning himself, he is after all a professional journalist. Maybe asked a few probing questions rather than let the two lads kind of go on and on. I am not saying that we should carry with us a kind of Pollyanna attitude that everything in the garden is rosy when the garden is full of weeds. But on the other hand being over negative creates its own negative effect. I always love Billy Grahams famous quip, 'I have read to the bible and everything works out well'. I think I would love to see the two young guys get a very wise old spiritual director more than anything. I am fond of Michael Voris but we have to use discernment with him too. This was not one of his better efforts. I have to say this was not a picture of Ireland I recognise.
Your perception is right, Padraig. Despite the headlines, there is still Good News from the land of Saints and Scholars. I go to Ireland very often. 3-4 times a year. I can always get week day Mass. I can always stumble upon Adoration. I can still feel at home. I can't say the same of England. The gloom-mongerers are out in force at the moment. We have to be salt and light in a darkening world, not joining in with them. We have to be the solution, not the problem.
Yes Bella, I like to think of what is happening in the world and the Church at the moment as the pangs of birth rather than the rattle of death. We may stand at the Foot of the Cross and feel the pain but there is always the Ressurection. God is creating something new and wonderful out of all this. But for the new to be born the old must die. In a sense it is like a boil where all the poison must come to the surface. ..and coming to the surface it most certainly is. But this is a sign of healing not worse sickness. God is in control. Who knows really but I strongly suspect that there are more and greater saints , martyrs and victim souls living in the world today than in all of human history..greater Popes too. I am very,very positive about it all, I will not live to see the final victory but I'll see it from heaven. In a sense the final victory, the Resurrection of the Church is already amongst us.
Not exactly clowns but barney was in attendance at the Solemn Novena in Galway in 2006. http://www.pbase.com/michaelmccloskey/galway_novena
There is one church I know of that has Santa come at the children's mass on Christmas eve but I kind of like it because it is a great teaching opportunity for my kids. He does not say a word to anyone but walks down the aisle, kneels before baby Jesus and prays and walks out. To me this is so important because it lets the kids know the true meaning of Christmas is not Santa. Even Santa kneels before the Lord!
I think this must be true because if it weren't, God's hand of justice would have come down long ago. There are probably a few dozen incredibly holy souls that are right now carrying the sins of the entire world on their shoulders.
Perhaps I am wrong but I think the Holy Father/Rome called recently for the end of apart children's liturgies. Also for the end of 'cry chapels, ' I am no expert but sense this was a very good move.
There are maybe more than a few. I read a book about Dublin in the 1920's the book cited and named ten saints living in the Dublin area at that time. That's just ten we get to know about . Pope Pius x11 one time had a conversation with his secretary. The priest said to the Pope, 'I wonder if there is a saint in Rome alive now? Pope Pius went to the window and looked out over Rome in quiet for a while in prayer. Then he turned to the priest and said, 'One saint? There is a saint in every street!' How wonderful. I would say there is at the very least a saint in every Church. Only in heaven will we know. But Pope Pius was a saint himself, a great lover of Mary..a man of many tears...and if he did not know who on Earth would?
I would say indeed, that there are several at least members of this forum indeed that I would regard as saints. People can always surprise us, do not be mislaid by their humility. It takes a great goodness to cling to the Faith at this time.
