It is an interesting discussion and one I have often thought about. I think it is true that, 'What matters is the context, the intention, and whether you see another person merely as an object for your own pleasure rather than as a human being with inherent dignity.' It depends a lot on context. The Cure of Ars used to give off to women from the Pulpit and even go down to talk to them in his Church. That would have been way back in the 1850's. From what I have read Parish priests in Ireland and other places would have been doing the same thing back then. But our cultures have radically changes since back then. I think we have to take that into account. I mean we can;t expect women (and men) to dress as they did in the 1850's that would be unreasonable. A woman a woman wearing pants back then would probably have been arrested. But now no one gives it a second thought. Also I think immodesty in men is different for that with women. A good example of immodesty for men would be shown in the Gay Pride Sodomist events. So we do need to nuanced about all this. When I used to travel in the East in places like Cyprus or even Southern Italy or Jerusalem I saw that there were different standards of dress expected from both women and men when they entered a Church. That is there culture, there place and we must respect that. It is the same with men and women and athletics. Of course they must dress differently because of what they do. The danger is if we adopt a one size fits all standard we will simply cause people to switch off judging us to be Puritans or Zealots. I would say one thing I personally have noticed is that women who wear longer dresses are more beautiful to me. Also men in Gay Pride events who wear grotesque clothing appear to me to be repugnant.
A lot of things concerning modest dress requires common sense. But there is nothing so uncommon than common sense.
I'm struggling with this whole discussion. It started with this wonderful boxer who stood on the world stage after a big success and gave glory and thanksgiving to God. I personally don't like boxing but I give credit to those who complete the difficulty preparation and training for such a discipline and have the courage to face their opponent and perform within the guidelines set out. It's a difficult sport and requires a lot of discipline. Boxing has been the saving grace for many young people growing up in difficult circumstances. It's ridiculous that the recommended attire worn by the athlete is now being used to judge him and all athletes. We have the command 'thou shalt not kill'. Christ did not condemn soldiers who in an army may be called to do just that. He never asked them to give up their jobs. If I remember He asked them to be satisfied with their pay. He didn't abolish slavery but asked master and slave to respect each other. We are asked to be the salt of the earth. That means to me to bring love into all situations and to respect the dignity of others. I'm not sure where I'm going with this. It's early in the morning and my brain is slow. Common sense is a rare gift it seems.
The issue of public mores and changing fashions is a complex one. It’s like the story of boiling the frog so slowly that he’s unaware of what’s happening until he’s boiled. I imagine if one wished to rescue the frog it might not be wise to throw him into an ice-box. It might be more prudent to have gradual change. From my experience, beachwear is less immodest than it was a few decades ago. I think the worst fashions are street-fashions for young girls, often very young, which leave little for the imagination. Ironically, they are extremely unflattering for most of them. Style and elegance are concepts which need to be revived. Any photograph of a street in the ‘50’s clearly illustrates this. Unfortunately, the fashion industry seems to be dominated by homosexual men, who are likely to despise feminine beauty.
Agree with you on this. Young girls are targeted for thrash fashion all promoted by dodgy pop stars. Sport wear is different.
The battlefield is in our minds but perhaps it starts with our eyes? I used to be an avid people watcher until one day I experienced the Lord inviting me to stop looking at people, especially in church, and to keep my eyes and mind on him instead. To make reparation for all the ways we sin with our eyes. I have realised since that my eyes were the doorway to desire, judgement, jealousy and many other things.
Yes. Custody of the eyes was always understood to be necessary to avoid sin. It was taught from the pulpit in the old days but no more.
Those people who are in such favor of nudity and half clothed persons tells me that they have tendencies, in which they do not want to control, to see others without clothes. Otherwise what is the reason to argue so forcefully in favor of nudity or half dressed persons? The unfortunate part kids are part of society and it is very easy for them to come into contact with it.
Ok Marc that's crossing a line. You are making presumptions and assumptions which are accusing forum members of being something that they may or not be, that is none of your business and is deemed as a personal attack (please read forum rules) If you cannot debate without making personal attacks to win an argument then please leave the argument or do not respond..no further warning will be given
Well, if we ever meet in public just dont try and box me in the face. "What we like tells us who we are"
Just saw this on Farcebook - ARCHBISHOP VIGANÒ JUST DROPPED A NUCLEAR TRUTH BOMB When a senior Catholic Archbishop — a former Apostolic Nuncio to the United States — openly accuses global elites of infiltrating Western governments to impose Agenda 2030… the world should stop and listen. Viganò warns: “A dangerous subversive elite has infiltrated the highest levels of Western institutions to implement a criminal global plan.” He says those who expose this “global coup” are silenced through: • Censorship • Intimidation • Psychiatric abuse • Arrest And he names a political prisoner the mainstream refuses to talk about: Rainer Füllmich — imprisoned for the crime of telling the truth. Then Viganò goes further than almost any church figure in our lifetime: “It is not Füllmich who belongs in prison, but those who committed the greatest crime ever against humanity.” And he names them: Fauci Gates Schwab Soros von der Leyen Bourla …and their accomplices in public office. This is unprecedented. A senior Archbishop accusing the globalist power structure of crimes against humanity — and calling the emerging system what it is: A totalitarian regime spreading across Europe, Canada, Australia and every nation controlled by the UN, NATO, WHO and WEF. His call to the world is clear: “Raise your voice. Defend the persecuted. Free Rainer Füllmich.” History is accelerating. The Church is speaking. Whistleblowers are being jailed. And the globalists are losing their grip. The truth is breaking through.
