Pope St John Paul 2 declared more people saints that any other Pope in history. So many that it is impossible to keep up with them all. However when we look at some of the youngest new saints it is clear that the grew up with the Novus Order Liturgies and it did not stop them from becoming saints in the least. Could I imagine Padre Pio who was a super saint, the Spiritual Father of many saints saying the Mass in the New Rite? Well yes I could and it would have been very moving and touching to see this. It is the Faith of the priest more than anything else that makes the Sacrament come ablaze in the eyes and hearts of the Faithful. He could have done this with either Rite I think. Although I have to say the disrespect and lack of reverence in Novus Ordo Churches I find unbearable. Its just a simple fact. If my Traditional Church had morning Mass I would go there all the time to escape this. Everybody seems to accept this constant chatter as normal, I don't. It is abominable.
Isn't it true to say the present novus order mass was not the one envisaged by the council? Latin was to be retained for some parts of the mass such as at the consecration as was Gregorian chant. The priest should be facing ad orientum. I would want kneelers and communion on the tongue only (from today please!) I would be pleased if these changes were introduced as soon as possible.
The chit chat is abominable it drives me crazy. When I was an altar boy in the early 70's people were much, much more reverend.
My brother in the USA said it is even worse over there. He says when he is leaving the Church it is full of empty drinks can and wrappers at the end of Mass.
I attend NO in USA and I have never seen food or drink except for a baby bottle. When u have a good Priest, a good Parish, we respect it.
I absolutely agree. I was, I think it's fair to say, using hyperbole as a matter of emphasis, rather than making any definitive theological statement. For the record, I will rephrase by saying that the Consecration is the most indispensable part of the Mass.
I have read that there was overwhelming support among the bishops of the Council for the retention of the Roman Canon in Latin. It would have been completely incomprehensible to them, I would think, that not only was it about to be vernacularised, but mostly abolished.
There was some sleight of hand to push it through i think. Paul VI was all for it if I remember correctly. That's when Cardinal Ottaviani stepped in with his "intervention".
I only had the opportunity to attend the new mass, and something that rarely happens at night masses is the complete turning off of the artificial lights, highlighting only the light from the candles, which creates a sense of timelessness befitting a world without technology, just as our ancestors of faith attended Mass. Often, when there is a siege of Jericho in my parish, this happens a few times during the liturgy and brings me peace of having fewer distractions with people and the modern world and focusing more on the essentials, which is the altar lit by the candles that can also symbolize our faith. Some aspects of the Tridentine liturgy, such as Latin and the silence of the assembly, help to create this climate of timelessness that I seek so much.
A long time ago, we had a terrible ice storm and the power was out for at least a week. Father offered Sunday Mass in a cold church with candle light. Obviously I have never forgotten it. I walked to Mass that day, too.
That’s my experience as well. In fact our priest will often remind us all to be silent before and after Mass… sometimes with a bit of force !
Sad thing is all of the chit chat can lead to gossip. I know of several instances where people have fled their parishes when they discovered people had been discussing their personal information with others. Agree, reverence at Mass has certainly declined.
It is not so much what they do that would cause me concern. I would be more concerned about them not knowing where they are. It reminds me of a Chapter of the Bible I was reading after Mass this morning. Basically because of the bad behaviour of the Hebrews God had Permitted the Philistines to slaughter them and capture the Holy of Holies. But Chapter 5 of 1 Samuel tells us what happened to the poor old Philistines when they had the Holy of Holies at home. What we have in our Catholic Churches is far more Holy than the Ark of the Covenant. 1 Samuel 5 The Ark in Ashdod and Ekron 5 After the Philistines had captured the ark of God, they took it from Ebenezer to Ashdod. 2 Then they carried the ark into Dagon’s temple and set it beside Dagon. 3 When the people of Ashdod rose early the next day, there was Dagon, fallen on his face on the ground before the ark of the Lord! They took Dagon and put him back in his place. 4 But the following morning when they rose, there was Dagon, fallen on his face on the ground before the ark of the Lord! His head and hands had been broken off and were lying on the threshold; only his body remained. 5 That is why to this day neither the priests of Dagon nor any others who enter Dagon’s temple at Ashdod step on the threshold. 6 The Lord’s hand was heavy on the people of Ashdod and its vicinity; he brought devastation on them and afflicted them with tumors.a]">[a] 7 When the people of Ashdod saw what was happening, they said, “The ark of the god of Israel must not stay here with us, because his hand is heavy on us and on Dagon our god.” 8 So they called together all the rulers of the Philistines and asked them, “What shall we do with the ark of the god of Israel?” They answered, “Have the ark of the god of Israel moved to Gath.” So they moved the ark of the God of Israel. 9 But after they had moved it, the Lord’s hand was against that city, throwing it into a great panic. He afflicted the people of the city, both young and old, with an outbreak of tumors.b]">[b] 10 So they sent the ark of God to Ekron. As the ark of God was entering Ekron, the people of Ekron cried out, “They have brought the ark of the god of Israel around to us to kill us and our people.” 11 So they called together all the rulers of the Philistines and said, “Send the ark of the god of Israel away; let it go back to its own place, or itc]">[c] will kill us and our people.” For death had filled the city with panic; God’s hand was very heavy on it. 12 Those who did not die were afflicted with tumors, and the outcry of the city went up to heaven.
As one Saint commented, the only reason why God is not striking people stone dead at the moment through the Hand of His Outraged angels is that He has something far, far worse than Death waiting for them. In other words a far, far lower place in the very Depths of Hell than they might otherwise have had. I include Papa Frankie in this. He's not getting away with a single Abominable word he has ever uttered. Payment Day is coming. ..and boy is it ever coming and boy does that man ever have it coming. You reap what you sow. Galatians 6:7-9 7 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. 8 Whoever sows to please their flesh, from the flesh will reap destruction; whoever sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. 9 Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up.
By the way this Chapter talks of widespread tumours (Cancers) on account of lack of reverence for God. \Well then:
Ironically, cancer is fundamentally a revolt against ordered life, typified by uncontrolled reproduction (at the cellular level). An appropriate response to parallel events in the macro dimension.
