God is disappearing from the human horizon, and, with the dimming of the light which comes from God, humanity is losing its bearings, with increasingly evident destructive effects.—Letter of His Holiness Pope Benedict XVI to All the Bishops of the World, March 10, 2009; Catholic Online
I would like to address your question Mac, New Springtime... Really? How depressing and undeniable is this vortex. Does anybody here really question what he has to say? Numbers do not lie. I would like to know (I know he is a saint), what Pope John Paul 2 meant when he called this age "the new springtime." Unless we have divine intervention, I am sad to say he could not have been more wrong. If anyboby has any explanation I would greatly appreciate it. This question has been bothering me for the last 15 years and I haven't found an answer yet.
This article by Fr. Bill McCarthy might be some help! http://www.myfathershouse.com/pdf/The Springtime for the Church.pdf
Miriam, thanks for the article. When I think of the springtime of the church announced by Blessed John Paul the Great, I think of the quality of Catholics who answered his call to greatness, all the vocations that came from the world youth days, and how he refreshed us with faithful bishops. I also think of springtime at the time of new beginnings. Not always a big dramatic show, but new growth. At the time of my conversion, in 1988, I can't tell you how scandalized I was by the preaching I heard. (In a church dedicated to her, on her feast day, I heard a priest call St. Maria Goretti stupid for dying for her purity!) I heard a priest promote contraception from the pulpit, and his bishop's response and inaction was scandalizing as well. (That bishop was replaced by JPII with a faithful, orthodox one, and the priest in question was promptly sent for "re-education".) I realize this is evidence only from my corner of the world, but I have seen a remarkable improvement in the faithfulness of clergy and laity alike. There are still plenty of priests in error, and scads of laity who are completely lost. But the beginnings of the remnant is robust indeed. The statement of Cardinal Ratzinger that the church in the future will necessarily become smaller strikes a chord with me. It seems our Church is growing in quality as it reduces in quantity. The blood of the martyrs has always been the seed of the Church. And the "warning" or "illumination" is the wild card. So, I have to say, I'm not worried about the future of the Church. "Jesus, I trust in you."
I agree with Kathy K. To me the ''new springtime" that JPII so often referenced for the Church is evident in my own conversion and the conversion of others from this world into to life and truths that Jesus taught through his church. I see the new springtime in the holy young priests (mostly under 40) who have consecrated their service to the true faith. I see many many holy bishops now that I did not see 20 years ago. This is springtime, the blossoming of the new church, that I believe JPII speaks of. Yes, it is small, but so is the bud on a flower until it blooms fully.
Yes, don't forget that springtime is a long period, and for much of it, the miraculous growth that is occurring is out of sight, out of mind. At least here in Buffalo, it is not until May (the month of Mary ) that the real fruits of spring can be seen and all of the flowers are in bloom. So, don't doubt that the new springtime is underway. We are simply passing through some "April showers" before we see those gorgeous "May flowers." Peace.
Well these April showers have been going for 50 years now, and there is no sign of it clearing.I will be interested when M.Voris releases the true figures at the end of the year.The Church is in crisis,freefall,. and the numbers cannot be sugar-coated.No matter how hard some of you will try.
I think you misunderstand. It is not sugar-coating to see goodness where it may be found. We have much to praise God for, especially in this new crop of priests He's raising up for us. As for the trouble in the Church, especially in the U.S., the evangelization needed is our job. We can't wait for someone else to do it. I believe the Blessed Mother has led me away from being a news junky because focusing on all that is wrong around me keeps me pointed in the wrong direction. Evil is there, and abounding. But focusing on it doesn't diminish it one whit. It doesn't lead me to grow in faith, hope and love. To become faith, hope and love with skin wrapped around it: that's my job. And the closer I come to becoming what I was created to be, the more the light will overcome the darkness. Bad news is a call for each of us to become a Saint, which will be the greatest draw to the faith imaginable. And now, brethren, all that rings true, all that commands reverence, and all that makes for right; all that is pure, all that is lovely, all that is gracious in the telling; virtue and merit, wherever virtue and merit are found—let this be the argument of your thoughts. Philippians 4: 8
My father would have loved to answer that question Mac. He was a Traditionalist Catholic and would probably have written a book of horrors stories in answer to your question. If I wanted too I suppose so could I. St Pope John 23rd tells an interesting story in his life time spiritual diary, 'Journal of a Soul'. When Pope John was a young Professor in the Seminary in his native Bergamo,( long , long before Vatican 2) himself and a pose of the locals to see the then reigning pontiff, the wonderful Pope St Pius x. One saint and future Pope meeting a saint and reigning Pontiff, now wouldn't that have been a sight for sore eyes. Anyhow St John and the locals rounded up a parcel of money for the the Pope which they presented to St Pius in the form of a pile of gold coins. I don't know in today's reckoning how much it might have been but I would guess it would have made a very tidy sum indeed, enough to make a stone fish smile. Now one thing about St John ..and this one on right through his life he never ever critcised the powers that be even though they put him right through the same kinda hell the put poor old Padre Pio through, right through his life and even when he was Pope. But in this case he mentions St Pius's bad attitude when hit with the gold. He never even said thanks nor acknowledged it. He was just too busy complaining about how bad things were. I suppose its a bit like my little garden. I suppose in one way its a huge mess. Looked at in another its wild meadow and the bees and kids like it. As in so much of life , its a case of is the glass half empty or is the glass half full? Well for myself I am constantly astonished at the goodness and holiness of my fellow Catholics..not least on the forum . I always remember this story of Pope John and Pope Pius meeting like that for there is a warning and a lesson in this for us all. Pope Pius was in a bad fix because the Papacy had lost temporal control of the Papal States yet in the end history showed that this was probably one of the best things ever happened the Church. I guess what I am saying we are always in danger of flogging a poor old sick horse to death. Better often to hand it a few carrots than to beat the poor old thing. That does not mean we are blind to it faults ... Italians come to ruin most generally in three ways, women, gambling, and farming. My family chose the slowest one. Pope John XXIII
Padraig posted this on another thread and it struck a chord with me. Hope has two beautiful daughters. Their names are anger and courage; anger at the way things are, and courage to see that they do not remain the way they are. St Augustine I realize I get stuck in the anger part too much and have to move onto the courage.
I also like this quote from G. K. Chesteron “For our Titanic purposes of faith and revolution, what we need is not the cold acceptance of the world as a compromise, but some way in which we can heartily hate and heartily love it. We do not want joy and anger to neutralize each other and produce a surly contentment; we want a fiercer delight and a fiercer discontent. We have to feel the universe at once as an ogre's castle, to be stormed, and yet as our own cottage, to which we can return at evening. No one doubts that an ordinary man can get on with this world: but we demand not strength enough to get on with it, but strength enough to get it on. Can he hate it enough to change it, and yet love it enough to think it worth changing? Can he look up at its colossal good without once feeling acquiescence? Can he look up at its colossal evil without once feeling despair? Can he, in short, be at once not only a pessimist and an optimist, but a fanatical pessimist and a fanatical optimist? Is he enough of a pagan to die for the world, and enough of a Christian to die to it? In this combination, I maintain, it is the rational optimist who fails, the irrational optimist who succeeds. He is ready to smash the whole universe for the sake of itself"
Mac, I have some thoughts, but will share later. Lord, it is true that facts lie not. What we need is to both see reality with your eyes, and to respond with the Heart of your Mother. As Mother Teresa used to ask of Mary, "Lend me your heart!". To meditate upon and live out Romans 5 is now of utmost importance: 1 Therefore, having been justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ,2 through whom also we have access by faith into this grace in which we stand, and rejoice in hope of the glory of God. 3 And not only that, but we also glory in tribulations, knowing that tribulation produces perseverance; 4 and perseverance, character; and character, hope. 5 Now hope does not disappoint, because the love of God has been poured out in our hearts by the Holy Spirit who was given to us.
Yes, large numbers of people having been leaving the Church, but the Church has also been attracting some exceptional converts over the years. There are a lot of published conversion stories out there (just do a search on amazon). The book Chosen: How Christ Sent Twenty-Three Surprised Converts to Replant His Vineyard is one of my favorites: http://www.amazon.com/Chosen-Twenty...id=1374163971&sr=8-1&keywords=chosen+catholic The Journey Home program on EWTN also has a very large collection of conversion stories, many of them being former ministers in other faiths: http://www.ewtn.com/vondemand/audio/seriessearchprog.asp?seriesID=-6892289&T1=Journey These converts often have to make painful sacrifices to follow Christ into His Church, giving up friendships, jobs, and unfortunately sometimes even their own families. “Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and whoever does not take up his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it" (Mathew chapter 10). For such converts these words of Jesus strike home. When the persecutions begin, I believe these converts will rise to the challenge since they have already chosen to be martyrs for Christ. As Tertullian said, "the blood of martyrs is the seed of the Church".
Here's a recent conversion story of the prominent Presbyterian pastor Jason Stellman: http://www.calledtocommunion.com/2012/09/i-fought-the-church-and-the-church-won/ Jason was born and raised in Orange County, CA, and served as a missionary with Calvary Chapel of Costa Mesa in Uganda (’91-’92) and in Hungary (’94-’00). After becoming Reformed and being subsequently “dismissed” from ministry with Calvary, he went to Westminster Seminary California where he received an M.Div. in 2004. After graduation he was ordained by the Pacific Northwest Presbytery of the Presbyterian Church in America and called to plant Exile Presbyterian Church in the Seattle area, where he served from 2004 until resigning in the Spring of 2012. He is the author of Dual Citizens: Worship and Life Between the Already and the Not Yet (Reformation Trust, 2009), and The Destiny of the Species (forthcoming from Wipf and Stock Publications). In 2011 he served as the prosecutor in the trial of Peter Leithart in the Pacific Northwest Presbytery of the PCA. He currently resides in the Seattle area with his wife and three children. He was received into full communion with the Catholic Church on September 23, 2012.
There are two things that Michael Voris fails to recognize in his analysis. Because Michael does not believe in, or at least reference Marian prophecy in any of his talks, he seems to miss the "signs of the times" in that his time-table for a smaller chruch in the US is more distant then what prophecy seems to indicate. Secondly, if he thinks the Church is shrinking nearly out of existance in the next 20 years in the US, I think he is off there as well. I feel once Pope Francis makes a universal statement on excommunication to Catholics who support abortion, contraception and sterilization etc., the Church in the US, as well as all other countries, will become smaller over night. This "smaller church" has been prophesised by Cardinal Ratzinger long before he became Benedict XVI. Michael could save himself and his staff allot of reference work time by referencing a little of what Our Blessed Mother has been telling us since Fatima, Garabandal and Akita.
Its all the Marian prophecies which contradict a 'new springtime' . They are all along the lines of the Church facing dark times,and chastisement. A church enjoying the wonderful springtime some of you see,would hardly need chastising?
I'm not sure I get Voris' intentions. Lets assume everything he says is accurate, my immediate thought is so what? I don't mean this in a callous way, but I think his stats just confirm reality. When you look even right now at "practicing Catholics" the number is low compared to "official" numbers. In that sense we are already a smaller Church. The real question to me which he does not address at all is what do we collectively do about it? He alludes to bishops getting more involved but again what does that mean in practical terms? I only KNOW beyond a shadow of doubt that the Church will survive- it will not become "extinct" as he asserts. I also know that I can only impact my family, my friends, my locality. And I think the best way to do it is actually how our Holy Father is doing it - by actions in a humble, loving and gentle way and of course always through prayer
Mark Mallett spoke of JP ll springtime in this and references the CCC.... Pope John Paul spoke of a new springtime in the Church that we would reach by "crossing the threshold of hope." But before that springtime, there will be a winter. Before we cross that threshold to embrace hope, we must pass through the desert: Before Christ’s second coming the Church must pass through a final trial that will shake the faith of many believers. The persecution that accompanies her pilgrimage on earth will unveil the "mystery of iniquity" in the form of a religious deception offering men an apparent solution to their problems at the price of apostasy from the truth. The supreme religious deception is that of the Antichrist, a pseudo-messianism by which man glorifies himself in place of God and of his Messiah come in the flesh. —Catechism of the Catholic Church, n. 675
