OK. Something has been on my mind for a few months now. Last fall, our Priest, Fr. John, was temporarily removed due to an accusation of sexual abuse. It has since been proven to be a false claim and he has returned to us. But, while he was gone, I had a vision twice. The first one was at the first of several prayer meetings held to support him, and pray for his return. While we were praying the rosary, I had the first vision. At my church, we actually have two church buildings due to it being a combined parish. In my vision (I call it that because I'm not sure how else to refer to it), I saw both churchs ruins. Nothing salvageable. And I mean nothing. And the devil was gloating and asking me "What are you going to do now?" Later, towards the end of April, I was laying in bed, half asleep. And I saw the same thing again. The first time I saw this, it was suggested that I tell our two permanent deacons about it. Neither took it seriously. But, about a week ago, I had the chance to talk with Fr. John, and I told him about both visions. He didn't act like I was making this stuff up. sort of like the two deacons did. Anyway, he seemed to hear what I was saying and I think he took it for what it was worth. Like, I'm not sure this will actually happen, but because I had the same vision twice, it may have meaning. What o you all think?
I think you did the right thing to tell Fr John. I would pray about the source of thd visions. You were all praying forcefully for Fr John when it happened. You saw the devil gloating. Was he trying to discourage you from prayer or instill fear? I would go right to Our Lady and ask her.
I'm thinking that the devil was saying that it would all be for nothing. I mean, as the deacons told me, the devil has always been after the church. But this seemed so specific for our parish, that it was like I was being told that there was nothing we could do to stop him from destroying our parish. As Fr. John said, it wasn't FROM the devil, it was ABOUT the devil. I felt it was a warning about something really bad happening. I've since heard that some parents were upset over Fr. John coming back. Our parish has struggled for years over paying the bills. And the one church, the one I've attended since deciding to become a Catholic, isn't in the best of shape. So it wouldn't surprise me if something were to happen to it. But both buildings?
Christy Beth. Ask Fr. John to start saying the prayer to Saint Michael after Mass. Saint Michael holy Archangel, defend us in battle, Be our safeguard against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him I humbly pray, and do thou Prince of the Heavenly Host, By the power of Almighty God, Cast satan down to hell, and with it the wicked spirits who wander through the world, Seeking the ruin of souls. Amen.
Christy Beth, Was the devil gloating in both, or just the first one. If in both, did he say the same thing? Safe Under Mary's Mantle!
Basically, the devil was gloating both times. The second time I saw this, it didn't seem to be as long as the first time, but I was only half awake the second time. I've been sort of in a waiting for the other shoe to drop ever since the second one. I think it's kind of like I expect to see this again, or waiting for clarification. I've seen where some people seem to think we won't get past 2025. Just seeing where this world is going, I believe it. I don't like it, but it is what it is.
Christy Beth, I would think, what would the purpose of these visions be? Do they fill you with dread, fear, worry, or curiosity? Or do they fill you with resolve to pray more for your parish and place it in God's hands? If it's leaving you feeling unsettled and generally bothered, it's probably not from God. It could easily be from your own subconscious or from the devil. I think that if God sends a vision, it's for a positive purpose: A warning that leads one to deeper prayer and acts of trust, or to turn someone away from their sin, etc. So if you believe it's from God then let it inspire you to pray more and trust Him no matter what comes. Remember that nothing bad happens without God's permission. It's not in the devil's hands.
Some thoughts that came to my mind: Fr John was perhaps holding up the Church somehow (is he a holy priest?) and the ruins are perhaps associated with his removal? Who accused the priest? If they are people in the parish, then that also points to a certain ruin within. The fact that the two deacons discarded your vision seems to confirm the image of the Church in ruins - at least this is how I see it. This reaction is what you would expect from people who think in material ways, but not spiritually. A Church filled with worldly material folks is dead (in ruins) and needs to be renewed (Holy Spirit). I agree that that devil is certainly trying to discourage you from praying, but praying is never lost. And the suffering of Fr John must have been offered in reparation so, the living Church will be rebuilt. Coincidentally, I read a passage the other night in one of my books from a mystic where we are shown one of the temptations of Christ when He fasted & prayed in the desert before starting His ministry. The devil told Him that His efforts would be pointless to save the temps because the upper hierarchy of the temple was so corrupt that even the Presence of God would not save them... Old joe jerk uses the same tactics with everyone it seems!
I guess a little background would help. When it was decided to combine these two parishes into one, one priest was brought in to oversee the transition. Fr. Jon Hullinger was not exactly the right man for the job. He ended up leaving the church altogether and last I heard he went to the Episcopal church. Then Fr John Pilcher came. He basically put his foot down in reference to the snipping and all that. He put an insert into the bulletin with the most FAQs. He said he didn't want to hear them again, and held a town hall meeting with the insistence that the first negative commit would end the meeting. He basically said that the two parishes were combined, and there would be no more arguing, backstabbing or any other negative crap that had to do with it. Things got quieter after that. I'm sure there are still those who aren't happy with the situation, but that can't be helped. Oh, and some parents did get upset over his coming back. Then came the accusation. All I heard in reference to it could only be called hearsay, so I won't comment on it. So, he was removed for the investigation. Both the church and whoever took on the "civilian" investigation had to be done. At first, I thought he wouldn't come back even if he was proven innocent. There would always be those who thought there must be some truth to the accusation. Well, he was cleared and came back. At first I heard that he would be back April 24. That was the morning I "saw" the vision the second time. But he didn't come back until the next weekend. The first time I had the vision, I think I was concerned because I thought that the church would lose because of the loss of Fr. John. But then I had it again just before he came back. I don't recall being scared about this. Other than the fact that this church has been my "church home" ever since I decided to become catholic in the first place. The thought that was strongest in my head was concern over my own soul, and the souls of everyone else here. If we aren't safe in this parish, where would we be safe? Maybe I did have a sense of dread because of that. And the thought that what I saw wouldn't be believed. I'm not one to shout from the roof tops or anything like that. So I hesitate to speak of this to those around me. Like I said, I mentioned it to someone who told me to talk to the deacons. I did, and basically saw it brushed off like it was nothing. I guess I got upset because of this. Why would I have such a vision during a prayer time at the church? We were praying the rosary when I saw it. I think I may not have done this in an order that makes sense, but wanted to bring it here so I could get some feedback. I appreciate that which I've gotten so far. I'm not sure if I feel anything that may truly be attributed to the devil, other than a dread of losing my "church home." I've been going here for almost 26 years. That's a long time for me. Longer than I've been in any other church.
When I read this, I immediately thought of Pharaoh's dream that Joseph interpreted. 25Joseph said to Pharaoh: “Pharaoh’s dreams have the same meaning. God has made known to Pharaoh what he is about to do. 26The seven healthy cows are seven years, and the seven healthy ears are seven years—the same in each dream. 27The seven thin, bad cows that came up after them are seven years, as are the seven thin ears scorched by the east wind; they are seven years of famine. 28Things are just as I told Pharaoh: God has revealed to Pharaoh what he is about to do. 29Seven years of great abundance are now coming throughout the land of Egypt; 30but seven years of famine will rise up after them, when all the abundance will be forgotten in the land of Egypt. When the famine has exhausted the land, 31no trace of the abundance will be found in the land because of the famine that follows it, for it will be very severe. 32That Pharaoh had the same dream twice means that the matter has been confirmed by God and that God will soon bring it about.
Ugh! And here I was waiting for a third time. I guess if anything happens, it won't happen without God's foreknowledge and approval. Yet, again, why my church? I guess there would be a reason, it's just that so often I ask that. As a human, I like to ask why. But God doesn't answer to me, just asks me to trust Him. I'll try, but it won't start off with joy. Is that normal??
Saint Teresa of Avila said that one of the true signs of visions/dreams is that they repeat and mark themselves on our memory/ heart. You appear to tick both boxes here. Saint John of the Cross indicated that we should take imaginative visions/ Dreams with a certain lightness. I tend to do this myself. Place such things in brackets of, 'Maybe they're true maybe they're not', and leave them there calmly and with peace. Kinda like, 'Wait and see'. They tend to be like a good wine, the longer you leave them the clearer they get. But you know there are some mystical insights I got a whole life time ago and I have been thinking about them for over 50 years and I am still not sure they are true and what to make of them. God is very,very great and we are very,very small. Sometimes we just have to lay things to bed and hope at some future time, maybe in the life to come, to understand a little better. Some things take a real monumental patience in discernment. There can be a certain pride in demanding clear answers to everything. Sometimes God asks us, I think, to just leave things and trust. Waiting can be testing , but also indicate an excellent quality of discernment.
Thanks for the input. I appreciate all the responses, We have started back to bible study as of last Thursday. This past Thursday was our second one. There may be times when we don't meet. Like one week Fr. John has a retreat planned. Anyway, if anything develops I'll say something here.
Excellent post Padraig!! You very nicely put in perspective something that occurred ( chose this word rather than happened) to me while I was kneeling at the rail to receive communion. This"thing" occurred about 5 years ago and I have been wondering about it ever since. Back in November of 2017 our very holy parish priest moved past me after he had given me communion...the maniple...which the priest wears draped over his left arm... brushed across my hands which were folded on the top of the railing and ( this is the part I ponder)... a voice?..a thought??a whatever?? said... "Your Faith has HEALED you". My first thought immediately upon hearing? feeling? (imagining?) this was "There's nothing wrong with me..some allergies and digestive problems..so I'll pass this gift onto my children..who are in desperate need of spiritual healing!! Wow ..I thought Im just like the woman who was healed just by touching the hem of Jesus's garment. All these thoughts flew by in a matter of seconds. As I got up and started to walk back to my pew ... I said to myself... WAIT...WHOA...what just happened here??" Did I just imagine this? Is this wishful thinking??? WHY would I ask for healing when nothings wrong?? I sort of let it go ...sort of..still scratching my head? THEN the very next day the reading at mass was about the woman with the hemorrhage who had touched the hem of Jesus's garment! I thought to myself " What heck is going on here?"And... days following the priest gave his homily on this woman and her faith. Somebody trying to tell me something?? WELL...a week and a half later I was diagnosed with Parkinson's disease! Sooo.... Im still waiting to be" healed" and thinking it must have been my imagination because nothing has happened and my Parkinson's is progressing very nicely..thank you. Ive also been torn between....waiting and hoping that I am healed of this energy /life draining affliction some day and the desire to willingly accept the weight of my cross for the sake of all that needs healing in my family and the world . Padraig said it BEST... " Place such things in brackets of, 'Maybe they're true maybe they're not', and leave them there calmly and with peace. Kinda like, 'Wait and see". "Sometimes we just have to lay things to bed and hope at some future time, maybe in the life to come, to understand a little better." They tend to be like a good wine, the trust.longer you leave them the clearer they get. But you know there are some mystical insights I got a whole life time ago and I have been thinking about them for over 50 years and I am still not sure they are true and what to make of them. " "Sometimes God asks us, I think, to just leave things and trust" BINGO!!
Perhaps it was a spiritual healing or something to give you hope while God's will unfolds along with your disease... I, too, have a special place in my heart for this Bible story due to an experience I had years ago. I was miscarrying my first child and had a mysterious situation in which I couldn't stop bleeding for two and a half months. I went to the ER three times and neither they nor my OB-GYN could figure out why the bleeding wouldn't stop. Not only would it not stop, but it became worse and worse until I was hemmoraging massive amounts. It made my already very emotionally painful experience of losing my baby drag on and on and become almost unbearable. One day at work I collapsed in tears and felt I couldn't go on any longer. I'd been praying and surrendering to God's Will the best I could for so long but at this point I felt completely abandoned and broken-hearted. I cried out to God, "Do You even hear me? Just tell me You hear me, and that will be enough!" There was a Bible in the office and I grabbed it in desperation and opened it randomly. The first place where my eyes fell was the story of the hemorraging woman. I bawled my eyes out, just because I knew God was telling me He heard me. I could go on then. Within a couple days I'd lost so much blood I was breathing heavily just walking slowly across a room. I would sit on a stool at work stirring the food I cooked for my clients (I took care of adults with mental disabilities) and had to stop to catch my breath after each individual stir. That night I woke up with a fever and was shaking so hard I couldn't walk. My husband took me to the ER and I received multiple blood transfusions. The bleeding slowed down like it had on previous ER trips and I returned home the next day, again being told they could see nothing wrong with me. When I got home I began experiencing the worst pain I've ever had in my life...worse than childbirth. I was on the floor unable to hear, for some strange reason, and my poor husband didn't know what to do so he just sat across the room from me. The pain was so unbearable, I couldnt even cry...so I did the one thing I could think of...I looked at Jesus in my mind. I saw Him lying on the ground under the cross on His 3rd fall. Mentally reaching out my hand to His, I held His hand and told Him it was ok, I would suffer with Him. He was not alone. Within moments, the pain completely subsided, and I stopped bleeding. It was over, and never came back. To this day I have no idea what physically happened to me or why, but the experience I had of God telling me He heard me, then us sharing our suffering together, is something I will treasure for the rest of my life. I'm sure that your experience involving that Bible story was significant, and you will learn one day how it was so.
Ellen, I am so sorry to hear you have Parkinson's; such a huge Cross. As far as I recall Pope St John Paul had the same thing. But there is no doubt you have a huge Faith, so shoulders big enough to bear this Cross. Your story is such a good reminder of the fact that mystical goings on are not always clear. When I was a child they used to have candy, like toffee's that were so hard that it took we children hours and hours to eat them. Some mystical goings on are a little like this. We can chew and chew on them for years and years and never get to the bottom of them . Which is maybe what the Good Lord intends. That we should chew and chew and think and think and it never ends. The Mysteries of the Rosary are such a good example of this. I sometimes get uneasy when I hear people say they can explain such things perfectly. Like, say the sun dancing at Fatima. Certainly people can have insights; sometimes very deep insights. But I think there is always more and more to chew on. When we reach the point were we think we can say that there is nothing less to chew on, I think we have lost something very precious. In the word Mystical there is Mystery. and mystery means there's always something left to chew on. I think this is what makes me uneasy about many Protestant and Modernist Catholic commentators when they, 'Explain', such events. They tend to put things in a box far, far, far too quickly... ..and putting things in a box is the next worst thing to burying them; which is just so sad. They need to chew a lot more. To be loads more humble; to be more ready to say, 'I just don't know..' This reminds me of the Mother of God, whom Scripture informs us took these thing away with her to pray over in her heart after the Presentation. Now there was a lady who knew how to chew and to stew over things. Luke 2:19 But Mary treasured up all these things and pondered them in her heart.
Wow!! PF I guess you DO have a place in your heart for that bible story. Its almost the exact same story!! This part of your story...I couldnt even cry...so I did the one thing I could think of...I looked at Jesus in my mind. I saw Him lying on the ground under the cross on His 3rd fall. Mentally reaching out my hand to His, I held His hand and told Him it was ok, I would suffer with Him. He was not alone. .... says it all!!! It was THEN you were healed!!
Ellen, I may be the densest person in the world, because it didn't even occur to me that I was healed when I reached out and TOUCHED Jesus... I've always thought Jesus was just waiting for me to accept my suffering before He healed me.
