Sometimes the party line is the truth. The Church being the party where prophecy is concerned, I'm inclined to believe that the party line is the truth more often than not. In the case of La Salette, the party has documentary evidence of Melanie's early account of the apparition. That her recollection changed after she had problems with Church authorities casts doubt on the later version of the prophecy. It doesn't change the fact that the apparition happened or make the apparition site less holy.
I appreciate your explaining things as you have come to see them, but it’s just that I’ve cautiously considered the other view over the years and have come to believe it as more plausible. It all makes more sense looking at it from my current vantage point.
And Jesus answering, said to them: Take heed that no man seduce you: [5] For many will come in my name saying, I am Christ: and they will seduce many. Matt 24: 4, 5
Perhaps Archbishop Vigano is fine. But the words of Jesus at another time also ring true: Matthew 7:15-20 You Will Know Them by Their Fruits 15 “Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves. 16 You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles? 17 Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 Therefore by their fruits you will know them. Oath breaking is really, really big deal. We can't simply bypass or jump over it. No one forced Archbishop Vigano to take this solemn oath in the first place. When we take such a solemn Religious Oath we are calling Almighty God and the Court of Heaven to bear witness, as we do for instance when a couple take their Wedding Vows. We do not permit married couples to escape such consequences, why would we allow an Archbishop to do so? It just causes me to hesitate. Can good fruit come from such a very bad tree as Oath breaking? Matthew 5:37 Oaths and Vows …36Nor should you swear by your head, for you cannot make a single hair white or black. 37Simply let your ‘Yes’ be ‘Yes,’ and your ‘No,’ ‘No.’ Anything more comes from the evil one. 38You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye and tooth for tooth.’…
I have admired Vigano for his courage, but lately it seems that he issues long statements about everything from the US elections to the Vatican 2020 Nativity. I think he should now zip it and leave it all in God's hands. We know what he thinks, he has no need to tell us further. He's afraid, of course, for himself and for the future of the Church. But he's started to repeat himself - and of this there can be no end. He risks becoming a celebrity. I think he should adopt a silent, contemplative life as really, prayer is all that can save us now. He does not have the authority of a Burke or a Pell. I have a friend whose husband has been lured by the traddies and she tells me how horrified she has been to read of the anti-Semitic stuff that's coming out of that quarter. Her husband doesn't seem to have caught the bug, but it's there and it is spreading like the new variant of covid. Anti-Semitism is a serious sin; for goodness sake, 'Salvation comes from the Jews'!
Clare said, "He risks becoming a celebrity. " He has been hailed as such in some quarters. It's a complicated issue. This has fostered division. My feelings toward his views have changed in the past few months. Like Padraig, we should be looking at the fruits. I agree with you that he doesn't have the authority of a Burke or a Pell. We need to stay awake! Watch and pray. Two wrongs don't make a right. That's a basic teaching of the Catholic Church. We should all be asking ourselves that question every day. Is what we are doing fostering "two wrongs don't make a right?"
Stay awake watch and pray. That is the best advice for the times we are in. We can't know another's motives. The heart's reasons belong to God alone. Our best course of action is to pray for all concerned and stay in the barque of Peter. It is rolling and careening in these storm billows-- very easy to fall overboard. Our Lady Star of the Sea protect us.
To me it is so sad to see good traditional Catholics tempted by their very virtues into excess. The devil is so crafty. "There is a way that seems good to a man but leads to destruction..." I have some friends i no longer see (sadly) who have become so traditional they have moved themselves out of the Church into the sedevacantists.
Yes Vigano seems to get carried away with himself. Let's face it Trads often carry anti Semiticism like a dog often carries fleas. It's not there all the time. But it very often is. A lot of this comes from France.
This is exactly the issue. This movement leads some to move further and further away rather than closer to other Catholics and those of need which is all of us when I reflect on it. We all need each other especially in these times. It's an incredibly slippery slope spiritually and one that Pope Francis has warned about.
This is an unfair association, and I surprised that so many are subscribing to it. Tradition is being found by the youth because of beauty - an online Twitter troll posting hate does not reflect the traditional movement. I’m surprised by the amount of posters who are trying to throw out the good traditional movement out with the bath water.
No, traditionalists aren’t moved further away by this movement - that’s absurd. If it happens it happens the same way it does for all Catholics - sin. But I must say, with all that’s going on in the Church, and how from contraception to sodomy the vast number of Catholics are approving of serious sin, the threat to one’s soul for adhering to Catholic tradition and becoming an anti Semitic pales in comparison.
Depends how you define anti semitism. One cannot ignore the impact of the Jewish revolutionary spirit on world history.
????? Maybe posters are just speaking truth. Maybe not all of the “traditional” movement is holy. I’m not throwing anything out, I don’t think. ??? “Hold fast to that which is good.”
I’m not sure what you mean. Let me try it this way: Should I base “NO Catholicism” on the Twitter posts of Fr. Martin? Of course not. Same with the TLM attendees. Perhaps you can tell us which parts are the “not holy parts”? Short of that it sure seems like an unfair attack on a solid movement based on centuries of practicing the Catholic faith.
