Prophesy - GSWYL

Don,
I could not have said it better.

 

Actually, I disagree with you, we gave all these messages to clergy in MN, including one who I would have considered my spiritual director at the time, and nothing negative was said to prevent the book from being published. It has nothing to do with refusing to cooperate with the church. If I was told by the clergy, to shut down my website gswyl, I would do it. I was told it was OK about 1 yr ago, to reprint the book, if there was interest.
So again, if you disagree with these messages, it is fine with me.

 

Also, I understand the seriousness of claiming to be a messenger for God. Believe me, I did not ask for this. I told God, I would answer the call of Isaiah in Isaiah ch 6 , where God asked, Isaiah in 6:8: “ Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then I said, “ Here am I, send me.” My job is to fulfill God’s mission for me and not allow anything to prevent me, from fulfilling my mission. This is God’s work, not mine.

 

The more interesting things for me, are the past year. I have prayed with a number of people and seen God work miracles. A man found 2 jobs for his family, people were healed physically and spiritually. I take no credit for any of this. Usually, when someone, especially at work, comes up and tells me about their problems, I tell them, sorry to hear about that. I hope things get better. But I can only give the Holy Spirit credit for the idea which popped into my head, pray for them right now. I ask the person for permission to pray for them. Then we both pray and ask God for a miracle. Not to bore you, but just like people asked Jesus for a specific healing, ie: blind man asking for sight, we pray to God for the specific need. I have been amazed at the number of prayers answered. I needed to get out of my comfort zone. This is really what it means to a messenger: include God in all your activities and bring Jesus to everyone you meet. This is something we all can do. I hope this helps someone. Verne

 

Verne,
Do you do this in the context of regularly scheduled prayer meetings, and does the prayer session include a laying on of hands?
.

 

No, I do not lay my hands on people, because I am not a priest. These events happen at random ie: at work, at the store, after church for examples. Even if I have blessed oil with me, the person blesses themselves. God brings people into my life everyday, I ask myself, How can I be an instrument for God today?

 

With respect, Verne, there is a grave difference between showing messages to an informally selected group of clergy and getting feedback vs. submitting the same messages and yourself to investigation by the Church.

When you say clergy approve of your book, it gives people the impression you have a level of Church approval which you do not have. The claim itself is implicitly misleading. So, I respectfully request you and your followers stop making any claims of clerical approval. At least one other forum member made this same request in the early pages of this thread (Dolours, who was far more articulate on the reasons why that should be done than I am now).

I cannot imagine thinking God had chosen me for a messenger. I would probably do a runner like Jonah. Yet, I also cannot comprehend that it is God's will that any messenger of His does an end run around His Church:

"Jesus established a Church to guide us. He gave us via that Church all the revelation we need to do His well and attain eternal salvation. If God wants to get our attention, God will do so and will make sure His Church sits up and takes notice. That might take a long time as it did at Fatima but I don't believe that God will completely bypass His Church. I don't know about Fatima, but I'm fairly sure there were very questionable "apparitions" at Lourdes after Our Lady appeared to St. Bernadette. The Church approved the genuine apparitions but not the questionable ones. Were people to do their own thing and ignore Church authority, Lourdes could have become a different kind of place than it is now. Did Our Lady of Fatima tell the children to reveal the secrets themselves or did she tell them to obey the Bishop?" From post #80 on this thread, March 17, 2018

Finally, how can you know that the voice you hear was truly God's, and not the product of your imagination, or (God forbid) the voice of an obliging spirit? St. Faustina was taken in by the devil who appeared to her as an angel of light. Whatever the nature of your past involvement with the occult, the Church will consider that highly relevant to any discernment it makes. Frankly, if the clergy who informally approved of your messages were made aware of your past, they may have reacted more cautiously, or immediately suggested going to the bishop. As might any of those who come to you for healing prayer. I say this not to attack or to be mean, but as you must know, occult ties are powerful and can leave behind scars. That is a very, very good reason not to set yourself up as a messenger or prayer-partner/healer without formal Church guidance.

 

I appreciate your candor, but let me address several things. First, we are all sinners and fall short of the glory of God. Second, Jesus said in John 8:36, “So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed.” Jesus can deliver anyone from sin. My advice: do not give any foothold to Satan in your life. St Paul was the best example, he murdered Christians , but became an apostle. If I am in sanctifying grace, am I a temple of the Holy Spirit or a temple of Satan? I think to many people are hung up on my past. What if I was an alcoholic? In fact, the best witness to the power of Jesus, is how he delivered me from the occult. Most people have wounds from many types of sin, but Jesus Christ can heal it all, if we ask him. Please read, Luke 8:26-39. There was a man who was possessed by many demons ie Legion. What did Jesus tell him in Verse 39, “Return to your home, and declare how much God has done for you.” He did not tell him to hide and cower in fear. To many Christians today are afraid to talk about what Jesus has done for them. In fact, God can use me to help those in the occult. I understand where they are coming from. Also, you may not know this. But everyone who was involved with this book, including the priests, knew about my past. Their advice, do not let your past control you. Jesus has forgiven you, continue going to confession and attend Mass. God is more powerful than Satan, period! Finally, Jesus gave us the lesson, when tempted, in Matthew 4:10,11, Then Jesus said to him, “Begone Satan!”...Then devil left him. The times I have used Jesus’s example, it always works. He gave us the example of how to withstand the attacks of hell. Simply, we all are called to be a witness to Jesus. So, I will continue to do what God asks me to do.
God bless you,
Verne

 

Of course we must "test everything and hold on to what is good". For myself and others on the forum, we have read all of 54 messages given over an 11 month period and some of us have read them many times over and believe them to be from God. This is how we can say nothing in them is contrary to scripture of church teaching. Testing is not ridiculing the messenger or the messages, it is discernment that is essential. I have challenged the few naysayers over and again, to show me one message that is contrary to scripture or church teaching and I get deafening silence. Because if there was one message or anything within a message contrary to our Catholic faith or scripture, I would promote them no more. The burden is on the naysayers/scoffers and those who despise alleged prophecy to prove their point, but the can't. Some attack the messenger and not the messages. Scripture warns all Christians, "do not despise prophecy but test and retain what is good". That is what I have done and that is why I retain and speak to Verne's messages in the book God Speaks Will You Listen www.godspeakswillyoulisten.org

 

Well that because you aren’t listening.

We’ve brought it up and will continue to do so. In fact I brought some of them up in my last lost responding to you. Glorified bodies before the final attack of satan? Exactly how does that work?

Also, I’ve read that Verne has had messages since the ones posted on that website. Are the more recent ones posted anywhere?

 

The proof is not on the messenger, but the messages. You have been challenged to find just one message in the 54 messages in the book that is contrary to scripture or church teaching and you have not and you cannot not. The proof is on the naysayer who despises prophecy outside of what has been officially approved by the church. All approved prophecy, apparitions etc... were once unapproved and they have their naysayers just as you are to Verne and his messages. Priests and theologians have read Verne's messages and found nothing contrary to faith or morals of our Catholic faith.

 

Frodo, read Revelations 20. Its all about the second resurrection and the final attack of the evil one at the end of the world. Satan is bound for a thousand years. The souls of the martyrs reign with Christ in the first resurrection. The last attempts of Satan against the church. The last judgment. Its all there for those who have a desire to hear.

Revelations 20
1] And I saw an angel coming down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit, and a great chain in his hand. [2] And he laid hold on the dragon the old serpent, which is the devil and Satan, and bound him for a thousand years. [3] And he cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should no more seduce the nations, till the thousand years be finished. And after that, he must be loosed a little time. [4] And I saw seats; and they sat upon them; and judgment was given unto them; and the souls of them that were beheaded for the testimony of Jesus, and for the word of God, and who had not adored the beast nor his image, nor received his character on their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years. [5] The rest of the dead lived not, till the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

[2] "Bound him": The power of Satan has been very much limited by the passion of Christ: for a thousand years; that is, for the whole time of the New Testament; but especially from the time of the destruction of Babylon or pagan Rome, till the new efforts of Gog and Magog against the church, towards the end of the world. During which time the souls of the martyrs and saints live and reign with Christ in heaven, in the first resurrection, which is that of the soul to the life of glory; as the second resurrection will be that of the body, at the day of the general judgment.

[6] Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection. In these the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ; and shall reign with him a thousand years. [7] And when the thousand years shall be finished, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and shall go forth, and seduce the nations, which are over the four quarters of the earth, Gog, and Magog, and shall gather them together to battle, the number of whom is as the sand of the sea. [8] And they came upon the breadth of the earth, and encompassed the camp of the saints, and the beloved city. [9] And there came down fire from God out of heaven, and devoured them; and the devil, who seduced them, was cast into the pool of fire and brimstone, where both the beast [10] And the false prophet shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

 

Revelation 20 has nothing to do with glorified bodies. Glorified bodies are by their nature immortal and can feel no pain. It would be absurd to have God’s elect walking around with bodies that couldn’t feel pain or die when Antichrist is running around trying to kill them.

Clearly - very clearly in fact, this is against Scripture and Church Tradition.

And this isn’t the only instance either.

 

Yes, Verne has had several messages since the book. I have read them and heard them. He received a very dire message about the Pacamama idol worship in the Vatican. But in the book GSWYL everything that God wanted known has been given.

 

I don't know where you got the thinking that the glorified bodies come before and during the reign of the Antichrist. It was not from Verne's messages. Clearly, very clearly in fact you are confused on what is in his book and what you heard elsewhere. If you would read Revelations 20, you would get your answer!

 

Absolutely not. The messenger is the focus of the initial questions in formal Church investigations. Let me refer you, again, to the Vatican's guidelines on private revelations. It was posted several times in full--but you apparently have avoided it.

 

Nice try, we’ve argued this point before. Before you were at least honest in your confusion and stated (incorrectly) that Adam and Eve had glorified bodies (they didn’t) and that when we received them wasn’t defined (it is by the catechism and Church Fathers). Now it seems you are trying to deny it. So be it. Here’s the message which you know well since you posted it here many times:

“...Then my son, the era of peace will take place where my faithful will be resurrected and rewarded in the first resurrection. My faithful will receive glorified bodies. Those who survive the days of tribulation will be able to live out their lives in peace. Once this era of peace is over, Satan will attack my New Jerusalem, the church, as the Prince of Gog in Ezekiel 38, 39. The length of time of the era of peace has not been revealed to mankind. Time will be no more, as you know it. The final act of Satan will bring about the end of human history... “

This is literally impossible and clearly against both Scripture and Tradition - not to mention common sense.

 

Stop with the name-calling and false accusations, Fatima. I am neither one who despises prophecy nor a naysayer. I just have grave concerns with the alleged prophets you promote relentlessly on the forum, including most recently Fr. Rodrigue. You seem not to acknowledge the authority of the two bishops who rendered negative judgment against him. The bishops' authority is a fundamental of the faith you keep 'challenging' people on.

 

Once again, you have no idea who reviewed his messages after Cletus had the books made. Verne's priest read them and found nothing contrary to faith or morals. Cletus' pastor read them and blessed all 20,000 books that he paid to have printed and then sent most to known refuges to teach from during the tribulation. I just posted the head of the Marian Movement of Priests read his messages and wanted to keep his book to share with other brother priests. The book was vetted by many priests and found free of error. GSWYL did not need approval from a bishop or the pope for its printing. It is not necessary to have imprimatur as you seem to believe it does. Neither his own pastor or Cletus' pastor believed the book needed an imprimatur. Verne received the messages and others put it into a book format, which were given our free of charge to many while Cletus was alive. If you can't accept this, then take it up with God who wanted this done.

 

None of those people you mention have authority to make anything beyond an informal judgment. I have no idea how well any of them knew Verne either, and as noted previously, that is the first thing the Church looks at in assessment. Why do you not read what the Vatican has put out to help people judge private revelations? Really, that's the starting point.

As for the very worthwhile MMP movement and Fr. Roux...I am sure Fr. Roux was quite interested in messages and messengers. If he authorized his words to be used as a public seal of approval for Verne, however, I'd be surprised. Fr. Roux would have been familiar with the Church investigation process, to which Fr. Gobbi humbly and obediently submitted himself. The Church has not recognized Fr. Gobbi's locutions as having a heavenly origin. The fact that one of Gobbi's major predictions--of a major event (the return of Jesus?) before the year 2000--didn't pan out ratifies the Church's caution.

The imprimatur has been discussed on this thread for more than two years. It is not required but it is certainly worthwhile. Frodo noted what a low bar it is to obtain (sadly).

In addition, if Verne is claiming miracles--as he just did above--then involving Church authorities is ever more important.