Pope Benedict: I resigned, but I kept ‘spiritual dimension’ of papacy

Discussion in 'Positive Critique' started by SgCatholic, May 7, 2020.

  1. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    A most salient point. Thank you for raising it. Clearly this issue is NOT closed.
     
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  2. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    The only objective rudeness on this thread is most definitely NOT on the part of Sg. She has been very restrained in this discussion.
     
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  3. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    I think its rude for her to suggest tbat I leave
    I did nothing wrong or rude except disagree with her . I think both of you owe me an apology
     
  4. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Tag teaming is not to one’s credit here.
     
  5. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Both of you do it to me fairly often and I won’t have it without calling it out for what it is.
     
  6. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    This is Our Lady’s forum. I disagreed with someone. I should not have to be asked to leave the thread. I must have said something of value for there to be this kind of a hue and cry.
     
  7. Mario

    Mario Powers

    First, of all, Irishguy2, my distant blood relative, the above claim is at best hearsay for what goes on in conclaves is not public knowledge. Every Pope has their faults, even the Pius X's of the world. (Back then there was not a worldwide, daily in-your-face media able to dig up dirt!) You know, at the Last Judgment when Christ the King sits on His Throne, He will unfurl the Tapestry of His marvelous Sovereignty to reveal to every human being who ever lived: He rules supreme and that even what he has allowed, will glorify Him in the end.

    I will say this about Pope Benedict, he set an good example on what can be done about deviate perverts. I use those strong terms because my two priests sons are in an order, the Legion of Christ, whose founder was such a man. Pope Benedict exacted justice (late though it was) on the dastardly Fr. Maciel. Then he had a choice: disband the order or carry out a thorough reformation. He chose the latter. Priestly personnel were examined (over 100 priests left the order, both voluntarily or otherwise); the constitutions and procedures of the order were reviewed and modified. My spiritual director has personally told me of some supervisory procedures now in place to prevent abuses from regaining a foothold. Every Legionary was given the freedom to sever themselves from the Legion. This was an 8 year process! My sons, impressed by the concrete steps taken have chosen to stay. May they touch many lives through their priestly service.

    Thank you, Pope Benedict!

    Is it perfect, no (what is?). But it was thorough. I would think subsequent popes and bishops would have used this as a model to clean house in their own respective domains. Alas, this has not demonstratively been the case. :cry:

    Lord have mercy!
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2020
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  8. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Wonderful truth. Thank you. May God keep continuing to bless your family. I had no idea about this.
    And that was part of my viewpoint about the flood of information making it difficult to avoid undue curiosity. Someone posted a blog by Msgr Charles Pope about the spiritual dangers of undue curiosity. Sometimes we just think we have a right to know.
    Let me post it.
     
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  9. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

  10. Richard67

    Richard67 Powers

    I think as long as we have two men dressed in white, doubts will persist. Didn't Pope Benedict say soon after his resignation that the reason why he had to dress in white was that there were no black cassocks in Rome? It's over 7 years now and I guess there are still no black cassocks??
     
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  11. Richard67

    Richard67 Powers

    Brother Bugnolo, who believes Pope Benedict's resignation was invalid due to substantial error, has this to say regarding Seewald's book:

    "Having read many reports regarding Peter Seewald’s new biography on Pope Benedict XVI, it is clear that it provides no new light on what happened on Feb. 11, 2013. While the entire Book needs to be read to make a certain determination on this, let us review the major reports about the book to show that this is most likely a correct assessment of its contents.

    The German Press ignores the Renunication
    DomRadio.De in its report of May, 4, 2020, entitled, Peter Seewald legt neue Biografie von Benedikt XVI. vor 1.184 Seiten über den früheren Papst (Peter Seewald publishes a new Biography on Benedict XVI: 1184 pages about the former Pope) does not even speak of what happened using the correct terms, but does reveal that the Pedophilia Crisis was the cause of the decision:

    Resignation from the papal office

    Or for the reform process of the “Würzburg Synod”, which he left without saying a word in 1974 when he realized that he could not influence him in his understanding. And also for the surprising step with which he has secured a place in church history for all time: the resignation from the papal office (Papstamt) and the entry into the office (Amt) of an emeritus pope, which he invented.

    Seewald describes the departure in the life of the 93-year-old with empathy, he usually protects him against criticism. He always provides really new insights when he draws from personal conversations with the old pope (or with his secretary).

    Such a very last, mostly written interview in autumn 2018 is the final chapter of the book. In it Benedict XVI. with old and new arguments, why he decided to resign in 2012 and how he understands and exercises the spiritual office of “Papa emeritus” (Amt de Papa emeritus). With a bit of bitterness, he also rejects the sharp criticism of his public statements.

    One of the strongest chapters of the book with 1,150 pages of text and a detailed picture section includes the description of the abuse crisis and other scandals in the late phase of the Benedictine pontificate, which then led to the decision to resign – without having triggered this step, however, like Seewald and to insure his protagonist. The description of the meticulous preparation of the world-shattering event is exciting to read. Now you know who was informed when and how they managed to keep the sensational plan secret for months.​

    This report is uninformed, because Benedict XVI never renounced the Papal Office (PapstAmt) he only renounced the Petrine Ministry (PapstDeinst), as anyone who can real Latin can see. Evidently the author of this article cannot read Latin, but followed the German translation available on the Vatican Website, which I have shown to be falsified, and which our German correspondent showed was most likely subsequently manipulated by an English speaker.

    Br.de suggests that no other information will be found in the Biography, which was written to defend Ratzinger and which contains interviews with more than 100 individuals:

    Defense of a pontificate: a biography for Benedict fans
    A book about Benedict XVI. for fans of Benedict XVI: The new Pope biography by Peter Seewald is told in an exciting way, but in an obvious effort to defend Benedict. There is only criticism of the pontiff in small doses.

    In 1993 Peter Seewald metCardinal Ratzinger for the first time. Peter Seewald was supposed to write a portrait for the Süddeutsche Zeitung magazine about this man, who was perceived in Germany primarily as a “tank cardinal”: Joseph Ratzinger, then prefect of the Roman Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, must have liked the encounter and the resulting article.

    Because Seewald accompanies Ratzinger even after the papal election. He was the only journalist who managed to have a detailed discussion with the Pope and to publish it.​


    The English speaking press, however seems more eager to frame the Biography as proof that Benedict did resign validly
    For example, NCRonline.org in its report of May, 4, 2020, “Former Pope Benedict XVI sees Church threatened by pseudo-humanism” which is a reprint of an article by Katholische Nachrichten-Agentur, the emphasis, first of all, as can be seen from the title of the article, is on Former:

    He also explained the reasons for his resignation as pope in 2013. He denied that it was because of corruption in the Vatican or the “Vatileaks” scandal. Instead, he said it had become increasingly clear to him that in addition to possible dementia, “other forms of insufficient ability to hold office properly are also possible.”

    In this context Benedict XVI revealed that he, like Paul VI and John Paul II, had signed a conditional declaration of resignation “in the event of illness which rendered the proper performance of duties impossible.” He had already done this “relatively early” in his pontificate, Benedict said.

    He commented at length on criticism of his resignation. The office of a “papa emeritus” that he had created should be compared to that of a bishop who had retired for age reasons. This legal status could also be applied to the Bishop of Rome. It prevented “any notion of a coexistence of two popes: a diocese can have only ONE incumbent. At the same time, it expresses a spiritual bond that can never be taken away.”

    The former pope also likened his situation to that of an old farmer in Bavaria who has passed his farm to his son, lives in a small house next to it and has ceded his fatherly and commanding rights.

    I find it curious that the Pope might have used the very analogy I used to show his resignation was invalid, in my article about the Grandfather on his Farm. I am not a prophet, but Pope Benedict XVI might read FromRome.Info.

    If Seewald can be believed, and if the words he attributes to Pope Benedict XVI reflect his own mind, then it is clear that Pope Benedict XVI still is operating under the grave error of thinking that you can renounce the Papal Munus by giving up the power and governance but retaining a spiritual bond with the Papal dignity. Such an error is substantial, and in accord with Canon 188 would make the Renunciation irritus, that is, something which must be recognized by the whole Church has having never happened.

    In Conclusion

    Other reports cite statements which are incompatible with the truth that Pope Benedict XVI’s renunciation. But their incompatibility only demonstrates that Benedict XVI does not understand what he did or does not want to say openly what he did, and is simply muddying the waters. As Pope Benedict XVI warned us at the beginning of his pontificate, we must avoid the Dictatorship of Relativism, which determines truth not according to facts and reality, but according to opinions and claims. That a man is or is not pope is not demonstrated according to opinion or claims, by himself or by others. It is established by his acceptance of his canonical election OR his renunciation in accord with canon 332. In the former case, Pope Benedict XVI is the pope no matter what others or he himself thinks. In the latter case, Pope Benedict XVI, since he did not renounce in accord with canon 332, is still the pope, no matter what others or he himself thinks or says — until he says, before 2 witnesses: “I renounce the munus which I received when I accepted my canonical election,” or something logically equivalent to that.

    As far as the evidentiary value of Seewald’s book, it has to be regarded as hearsay evidence, unless he can provide voice recordings of the statements made by Pope Benedict XVI, and demonstrate that the Pope made them without the presence of others who would monitor, report or coerce him for what he said.

    As for the Italian press, Antonio Socci says nothing much about the controversy, but concludes that only God knows the role that Benedict has in the present crisis. He is surely exaggerating, because everyone knows what role the Pope has. They might not understand the kind of confusion into which a person can fall on account of error or what they might to out of fear, but that is because they have failed to really look at the matter with Christian Faith, which being based on the Incarnation, knows it must confront both the omnipotence of immutable truth and the vagaries of human flesh." https://fromrome.info/2020/05/06/se...ct-xvi-confirms-his-renunciation-was-invalid/
     
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  12. Mario

    Mario Powers

    Thanks, Richard. Such muddied waters!:unsure::(:cry:

    Safe in the Barque of Peter!
     
  13. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    Thus, here we have in Benedict, what the Fatima children said: "we thought to be a bishop in white" 'who will be climbing over dead bodies and on top of the hill will be martyred'. In the messages in the book God Speaks Will You Listen, www.godspeakswillyoulisten.org it reads: 'when Pope Benedicts mission is through he will be taken home'. I have believed he will fulfill the Fatima prophecy in this regard.

    10-17-07
    Apocalypse 12:4 and verses 7-9 are the fulfillment of the vision of Pope Leo XIII. Satan the dragon is now being cast out of heaven or my church and his angels or apostate clergy with him. My people all of the scandals, which are taking place in my church, are part of the purification and casting out of the dragon from my church. For there is nothing covered that shall not be revealed: nor hidden that shall not be known. Luke 12:2. My church will once again be the light to the nations.

    Please read the last part of Apocalypse 12:4. It states: And the dragon stood before the woman who was ready to be delivered: that, when she should be delivered, he might devour her son. Now, my people read Apocalypse 12:5: And she brought forth a man child, who was to rule all nations with an iron rod. And her son was taken up to God and to his throne. My church is to rule the nations spiritually through my vicar, the Pope. These verses are literally being fulfilled before your eyes. Pope Benedict XVI is the man child elected through the power of the Holy Spirit to rule with a rod of iron. My son, the Pope is my instrument being used to purify my church. His recent proclamations and decisions are setting my church on the narrow road to heaven. Once his mission is accomplished, he will be taken home to be with his Lord and Master. Then, my people you will see the fulfillment of Daniel 12:11: And from the time when the continual sacrifice shall be taken away and the abomination unto desolation shall be set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred ninety days and Apocalypse 12:6: And the woman ( or my church) fled into the wilderness, where she had a place prepared by God, that they should feed her, a thousand two hundred sixty days. My people, prepare yourself for persecution, martyrdom, and fleeing to my refuges. Once Satan has been cast down from heaven, read what will take place. My word states in Apocalypse 12:13: And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman who brought forth the man child. Now read Apocalypse 12:17: And the dragon was angry against the woman: and went to make war with the rest of her seed, who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. My people, Satan is going to persecute my church, since he has been cast out of my church. He is going to use lukewarm Catholics, apostate Protestants, and the antichrist to persecute my faithful Catholics.

    My people the time is shorter than you realize. My church is being purified. I am giving you this warning to prepare those who have ears to hear. Apocalypse 12:12 states: Therefore, rejoice, O heavens, and you that dwell therein. Woe to the earth and to the sea, because the devil is come down unto you, having great wrath, knowing that he hath but a short time. Satan knows his time is limited. My holy word clearly states to you that the reign of Satan through the antichrist will last 3 ½ years. I warn you my people, prepare your soul today for persecution. If you do not trust in the Lord completely, you will not survive the days to come. My people, the antichrist is being allowed by my Father as a chastisement to mankind for rejecting my Father’s mercy through his son, for rejecting my Blessed Mother’s messages, and for rejecting my Father as Creator and Lord of all creation. Mankind is once again saying to God Almighty: I will not serve. My Father will show this sinful generation what life without God is like. The antichrist is the fulfillment of my Father ’s will on mankind. The antichrist is the instrument of my Father’s justice on this earth. Nothing happens without my Father’s will being done on earth. Do not give Satan credit for anything. He is also subject to my Father’s will. To repeat myself once again: Prepare my people for persecution and to be marked and grazed by the followers of the antichrist. This will happen as my holy word prophesies. Then, I will come with the brightness of my coming through the power of the Holy Spirit and cast the antichrist and his followers into hell. My world will then be renewed and an era pf peace given to mankind. Take heed to my warnings. Have confidence my people, for I have overcome the world. Do not allow yourself to be source of division in my church. Be a source of love and unity. This hour of mercy is coming to an end and the justice and wrath of Almighty God are upon this wicked generation. These are the words of Jesus Christ to his faithful remnant. Amen.
     
    Last edited: May 7, 2020
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  14. Mario

    Mario Powers

    From the above post:

    Once his mission is accomplished, he will be taken home to be with his Lord and Master. Then, my people you will see the fulfillment of Daniel 12:11: And from the time when the continual sacrifice shall be taken away and the abomination unto desolation shall be set up, there shall be a thousand two hundred ninety days and Apocalypse 12:6: And the woman ( or my church) fled into the wilderness, where she had a place prepared by God, that they should feed her, a thousand two hundred sixty days. My people, prepare yourself for persecution, martyrdom, and fleeing to my refuges. Once Satan has been cast down from heaven, read what will take place. My word states in Apocalypse 12:13: And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman who brought forth the man child. Now read Apocalypse 12:17: And the dragon was angry against the woman: and went to make war with the rest of her seed, who keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. My people, Satan is going to persecute my church, since he has been cast out of my church. He is going to use lukewarm Catholics, apostate Protestants, and the antichrist to persecute my faithful Catholics.

    Fatima, I know you have stated this position before, leaning on first, the vision of the Fatima children from the third secret, and then this prediction concerning Benedict from GSWYL. You realize, then, you are convinced that in a moment of destruction and death, Benedict's life will be taken, which then opens the way for the Abomination of Desolation. Do you believe the destruction is a symbol of the physical destruction of at least part of Rome, or may it be the spiritual destruction within the Church? Also, your view indicates that an Antichrist arises upon the scene very soon, correct?

    Safe in the Refuge of the Immaculate Heart!

     
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  15. padraig

    padraig Powers

    What strange, strange, strange times.

    Bizarre.
     
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  16. Byron

    Byron Powers

    Shorter than we think. Apparently China has a stealth bomber. And we don’t know what else.
     
  17. Fatima

    Fatima Powers

    The fact that Emeritus Pope Benedict continues to wear the 'white cassock', I believe, is not a coincidence. I further believe that he knows he is the 'bishop dressed in white' of Fatima, as he was a very prophetic pope and resigned to pray, fast and prepare for his sacrifice, as he knows another pope would be in place who likewise will be killed. I believe Father Michel has spoken to both popes being killed as well. Pope Benedict "mission" as foretold in GSWYL prophecy will be fulfilled at this time.

    Mario, here is what Sr. Lucia wrote:

    "After the two parts which I have already explained, at the left of Our Lady and a little above, we saw an Angel with a flaming sword in his left hand; flashing, it gave out flames that looked as though they would set the world on fire; but they died out in contact with the splendour that Our Lady radiated towards him from her right hand: pointing to the earth with his right hand, the Angel cried out in a loud voice: ‘Penance, Penance, Penance!'And we saw in an immense light that is God: ‘something similar to how people appear in a mirror when they pass in front of it' a Bishop dressed in White ‘we had the impression that it was the holy father'. Other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark; before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and positions. Beneath the two arms of the Cross there were two Angels each with a crystal aspersorium in his hand, in which they gathered up the blood of the Martyrs and with it sprinkled the souls that were making their way to God. (3rd part of the secret)".

    Mario, I believe it will be both the physical destruction of the Vatican and its hierarchy/clergy therein, as was foretold by Lucia. The abomination of desolation will then take place, via the Antichrist, whereas the service he brings forth will be protestant in nature, ie.. no Real Presence. All the rest of the mass can stay the same. The False Prophet's liturgy may seem the same, but it will be void the sacrifice through a valid priesthood, ie, protestant in nature. Bishop Fulton Sheen has one of the best overviews of the Antichrist I have heard.

     
    Last edited: May 8, 2020
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  18. Julia

    Julia Immaculate Heart of Mary, pray for us.

    I honestly wonder if the pachamama being paraded into St Peters was an abomination of desolation set up where it ought not to be. It feels like we would all be better of if we had run for the hills last October.
     
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  19. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    "And we saw in an immense light that is God: ‘something similar to how people appear in a mirror when they pass in front of it' a Bishop dressed in White ‘we had the impression that it was the Holy Father'. Other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious going up a steep mountain, at the top of which there was a big Cross of rough-hewn trunks as of a cork-tree with the bark; before reaching there the Holy Father passed through a big city half in ruins and half trembling with halting step, afflicted with pain and sorrow, he prayed for the souls of the corpses he met on his way; having reached the top of the mountain, on his knees at the foot of the big Cross he was killed by a group of soldiers who fired bullets and arrows at him, and in the same way there died one after another the other Bishops, Priests, men and women Religious, and various lay people of different ranks and ...."

    Fr Gruner explained this: the bishop dressed in white (of whom Sr Lucy said they had the impression it was the holy father) is just that - a bishop dressed in white. The way she described him indicates that he is not actually the Holy Father.

    In the part of the vision that follows, the one she calls the Holy Father is actually the Pope.

    At minute 4:00 onwards.



    PF has publicly referred to himself as the 'Bishop dressed in white'.
    (in the official missal of his visit to Fatima in 2017, in the Prayer specially written for that day, Francis identifies himself as the "bishop dressed in white":
    [Hail Mother of Mercy, Lady of the white robe! At this place where one hundred years ago you showed all the designs of our God's mercy, I look upon your robe of light and, as bishop dressed in white [como bispo vestido de branco], I remember all those who, robed in baptismal white, want to live in God and pray the mysteries of Christ to attain peace.]

    Also, there is the vision of Blessed Anne Catherine Emmerich - 2 popes and 2 churches, one true and the other false.

    +
     
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  20. gracia

    gracia Archangels

    I agree that it's weird. And unprecedented, and must mean something. We have a Godly, holy Pope, and a very unwise, difficult Pope who seems to be trying to confuse and derail things. If we had two good Popes or too average Popes, it wouldn't be so weird. This is weird.

    I'll say that. It's undeniably weird.
     
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