God bless you Dolours. I would also like to ad the Divine Mercy Chaplet for any and all who may die on any given day.
I am still a little confused about the reasons why they went ahead with the idol worshiping thing in the first place. They must have known it would alienate and make hostile tens of millions, perhaps hundreds of millions of Catholics and non Catholics throughout the world (even many Protestants have their backs up). Why logically would anyone want to do this? It seems logically counter productive? Why do it then? It reminds me in a way of Democrats in the USA trying to Impeach the President. A bird that was never going to fly. Pachamama was never a bird that was going to fly too far either. Its so strange as though they were all affected by some kind of craziness. Perhaps pride? Strange, strange people. I can understand people being evil. I cannot understand highly intelligent and well educated people being so illogical and acting contrary to their own best interests. Like some kind of madness. John 12:40 Belief and Unbelief …39For this reason they were unable to believe. For again, Isaiah says: 40“He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, so that they cannot see with their eyes, and understand with their hearts, and turn, and I would heal them.” 41Isaiah said these things because he saw Jesus’ glory and spoke about Him.…
The discussion has been confusing. Allow me to go through it. In response to this quote of Bp Schneider, which I highlighted Mario responded with this: and I, with this: And HH responded thus: and again, my response was this: Mario responded again: but here, I do not agree. The call of Love draws one to go to Mass daily, for the most perfect form of worship, because it is Christ who sacrifices Himself and prays for us. And HH also made reference to the book, In Sinu Jesu and reiterated: So, what I gather from the above responses is that they point to Adoration of the Blessed Sacrament as being more important than the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass in bringing about a 'thorough renewal of the liturgy'. And that is something I disagree with. Adoration is wonderful, but the Mass is paramount (as member 'non sum dignus' stated). If one can go to Adoration in addition to daily Mass, by all means, do it. But if one has to choose, the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass should be the choice. +
Also, if I'm not mistaken, the monks at Silverstream Priory where the author of the book 'In Sinu Jesu' resides, celebrate Mass in the Traditional Latin form. They've got that right. +
Actually, I was taught that the Mass is the highest form of worship. Then came the Holy Rosary. What I am saying, since this book was intended for priests and Adoration, that it is pivotal. Get it? The reforms will come from inside the souls that Christ reaches in Adoration. We are not going to get anywhere without Jesus and His priests. The laity helps the priests. Sg, we are in a chastisement. I don’t think you understand that we got what we deserved. That has been said before on this forum. I also see that Summorum Pontificum allowed a resurgence of the Mass in that Priory. I see the possibility for greater resurgence if it pleases Almighty God. But it’s not something we can sit down at a table and fix. That was my point.
This is where our opinions differ. Why do you think the reform will not come through souls that assist worthily at Holy Mass, preferably in the Traditional Latin rite? Praying for priests while assisting at Mass is an offering/ prayer in union with the Sacrifice of Jesus at Calvary. He offers Himself and prays for us to God the Father. And again, I wish to highlight that Bp Schneider said,“the path to victory for the Catholic Church has to begin with a thorough renewal of the Eucharistic liturgy...". I agree with the good Bishop. +
I agree with you about souls praying at the Latin Mass, of course. But those Masses are hard to find, as you yourself have said repeatedly. And this is Jesus Himself in the Blessed Sacrament in Adoration. Perhaps read the book. I am not disagreeing with Archbishop Schneider. I am saying that the thorough renewal of the Eucharistic Liturgy will not come about as we think. We are not going to wake up one morning after posting on the forum and be invited to participate in Eucharistic Liturgy renewal. But we have been invited to Adoration. And some of us have a TLM close by if we desire to attend.
I simply leave it to what our Lady of Fatima told us how it would be in our time: She called it diabolical disorientation. Satan and his minions are latching on to every warped mind who is pretending to be faithful. He has studied us all and especially will disorient the minds of men and women in high places in the Church he is trying to destroy. We simply cannot leave any room for him to enter into. Fasting, Mass, Rosary yes, but sound catechisis is paramount. Do not allow even a crack of heresy to be entertained in your mind, as so many clergy and religious and baptized laity have done. Orthodoxy of faith is under attack and is apparently having its day in our moment in history. I think the Pachamama episode was nothing more than a brain dead attempt to show we as Catholics are no better off than those who worship the idols of the indigenous people. After all our Holy Father believes they have a path to God too via pantheism. There is no way else to explain it when he had a front row seat to the earth worshipers with Pachamama. St, Paul too was speaking to our times and it is no more clear than this: Letter the the Romans [16] For I am not ashamed of the gospel. For it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth, to the Jew first, and to the Greek. [17] For the justice of God is revealed therein, from faith unto faith, as it is written: The just man liveth by faith. [18] For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and injustice of those men that detain the truth of God in injustice: [19] Because that which is known of God is manifest in them. For God hath manifested it unto them. [20] For the invisible things of him, from the creation of the world, are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made; his eternal power also, and divinity: so that they are inexcusable. [21] Because that, when they knew God, they have not glorified him as God, or given thanks; but became vain in their thoughts, and their foolish heart was darkened. [22] For professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. [23] And they changed the glory of the incorruptible God into the likeness of the image of a corruptible man, and of birds, and of fourfooted beasts, and of creeping things. [24] Wherefore God gave them up to the desires of their heart, unto uncleanness, to dishonour their own bodies among themselves. [25] Who changed the truth of God into a lie; and worshipped and served the creature rather than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen. [26] For this cause God delivered them up to shameful affections. For their women have changed the natural use into that use which is against nature. [27] And, in like manner, the men also, leaving the natural use of the women, have burned in their lusts one towards another, men with men working that which is filthy, and receiving in themselves the recompense which was due to their error. [28] And as they liked not to have God in their knowledge, God delivered them up to a reprobate sense, to do those things which are not convenient; [29] Being filled with all iniquity, malice, fornication, avarice, wickedness, full of envy, murder, contention, deceit, malignity, whisperers, [30] Detractors, hateful to God, contumelious, proud, haughty, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, [31] Foolish, dissolute, without affection, without fidelity, without mercy. [32] Who, having known the justice of God, did not understand that they who do such things, are worthy of death; and not only they that do them, but they also that consent to them that do them.
Yes, Our Lady told us how it would be: diabolical disorientation. And She gave us the remedies. She kept it very simple so we would understand. Thank you, Fatima.
I wonder if anyone else is excited about our times? For decades I have felt like an island, learning and loving to speak of the faith I have come to know and no one to want to embrace it full on around me. I see the time for evangelization upon the horizon now. I see God going to work miracles within land, sea and skies. I see God cleaning up our mess, which often our beloved Church has promoted and led the way in. But most importantly, I see God bringing about the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, I see the Glorious return of Jesus and then the icing on the cake, the Era of Peace promised in Revelations 20 and at Fatima.
I was watching again the classic Crime Movie, 'Good Fellows', for the umpteenth time. Some of it reminds me of Shakespeare's path in the Tragedies (the same goes for the Sopranos). But one of the evident things is that practicing evil rots the soul and leads to insanity. Evilness and insanity go hand in hand.So I suppose there is no point looking for logic in such people. They are quite simply mad. But evil/mad. It really is a path of destruction. The only problem being if they are in leadership positions they take millions down to hell with them.
Sg, sorry that I confused you. I agree with you wholeheartedly, and I believe everyone in this discussion also does. I believe there are four ways for our bishops/priests to bring this about. 1) Promote attending a local TLM in one's own area; In the Syracuse, NY area there are two. 2) At the end of Holy Mass on this feast of Christ the Sovereign King, my pastor "trapped" everyone with a short version (10 minutes) of Benediction. Almost everyone was positive about it which means reverence in the presence of our Eucharistic King tugs at the heart! Continue to emphasize this element of reverence at NO Masses, perhaps by including ad orientum Masses. 3) An ecumenical council to bring about a thorough renewal of the Eucharistic liturgy as Bishop Schneider recommends. My three reactions: (a) The sooner the better, (b) I'm surprised that he didn't simply say: "Ditch the Novus Ordo." (c) No matter what, such renewal won't happen in this Pontificate as things now stand. 4) Work to increase regular attendance at Adoration. This one-on-one experience with our Beloved Jesus will only increase one's hunger for reverent Holy Masses. One of my duties on Thursday nights at 10pm is to close Adoration with: the singing of Tantum Ergo, following prayers, Blessing with the Monstrance, Divine Praises, singing Holy God We Praise Thy Name. A parishioner who often does an earlier hour told me that the closing solemnity is worth doing the 9pm slot. The point is that Adoration trains the heart to pursue silence and reverence. Reverent parishioners will desire and speak up for reverent liturgies. Safe in the Sacred Heart!
Thanks be to God that He has seen to it that this 'diabolical disorientation', that Fatima describes, has taken hold of them and led them over the edge. The sheer tackiness and primitivism of this codology ought hopefully have had the effect of knocking more than a few of their followers back on their heels. A false God that lets off all unrepented, and even celebrated, sin is one thing...but a blinking crude, wooden, pagan idol is going to impress very few. They're going to walk themselves into all sorts of contradictions and problems with their hitching onto the climate change and mass-migration issues, as well. There actually does not appear to be great intellect in this cabal; cleverness and cuteness in spades, but no proper reasoning. Naturally, if one abandons Christ, one simultaneously abandons Reason. Diabolical disorientation. How prophetic, indeed. Describes half the world, currently.
The Mass in the Ordinary Form that I attended this evening was valid, licit and beautiful in its simplicity and reverence. No music, no choir, no altar servers and no EMHC's. Just the priest and people who chose for reasons known only to them to go to Mass in that church at that time. That Mass was as reverent as any Mass I have experienced in my life before or after the introduction of the new Mass. I'm happy to go to any Mass celebrated with reverence, be it in the Ordinary or Extraordinary Form and in any language. My preference would be for Ad Orientum because not every priest is as holy and humble as the celebrant of the Mass I attended this evening. It isn't an either/or between Mass and Adoration.
I have received great blessings and Grace's and mercies in attending the daily NO with good and reverent priests. Jesus is there and He offers Himself to the Father in the eternal Sacrifice in spite of the novelties and inattention and bad music and all the other sad and disturbing things. If all the necessary elements are present He is there! Sometimes I feel like He is a beggar at His Own door during the NO whereas in the TLM He is majestically present as Christ the King. I so prefer the TLM. It is heaven on earth but I am grateful to have a reverent NO. Just my two cents.
Grateful to have Mass at all in these tumultuous times. Yes, Jesus is there! There is a small, freestanding outdoor chapel up the road about 15 miles which was used in the days before the Catholic Church came to the area, or when it was forbidden to have Mass. It has recently been renovated and is a cherished part of a historical property. I will look into this and post a photo and explanation. Hopefully soon.
"He is a beggar at His own door" is a good description. In fairness, I have witnessed very, very few cases of abuse at Mass here. In truth, my lack of knowledge of the rubrics means that I would notice only the most glaring abuses in the Ordinary Form and none at all in the Extraordinary Form. The Ordinary Form does provide more opportunities for abuse to happen. That said, I think that both the priest and the people in the pews often make a difference to the reverence at any Mass. The fact that the TLM is the extraordinary rather than the ordinary form means that it requires extra commitment and effort from both the priest and the laity. I'm not so sure that there would be a Heaven on earth air to everyTLM if the celebrant was there under obligation and the congregation were there for reasons other than a particular preference for the TLM. Communion kneeling and on the tongue also adds to the reverence of the TLM but there's no reason why that couldn't become a requirement for the OF without making any other changes to it.
