I can only speak for myself, and I believe that Pope Francis is the Pope. In my opinion, he is a bad Pope, probably the worst in the history of the Church (and we've had some very bad Popes) but he's still the Pope because the Bishops say so and nobody else is claiming to be the Pope. There is a question about the validity of his election. That question didn't arise until his friends in the St. Gallen group revealed that they had promoted him as a candidate to prevent the election of Pope Benedict. We only have their word that they stopped working to have then-Cardinal Bergoglio installed as Pope after he lost the election to Pope Benedict. There was at least one proven liar (Cardinal Daneels) in that group. Actually two if we count Cardinal Kasper's denial of what he said about African priests. Pope Francis himself claims to be a transgressor of the law of God. All sinners transgress God's law and Pope Francis humbly admits to being a sinner. The moderating here is light handed, so there's a good chance nobody will prevent you starting a thread about the German Bishops, making a case for or against whatever they are doing. You can't force others to interact with you, but you could go ahead anyway, making the case for both sides of whatever argument or discussion you want to have . You might get a bit bored talking to yourself if nobody responds to you, but that's what happens when you tell people what they should be talking about. Then again, you could always start your own internet discussion forum making you the arbiter of what topics should be discussed and who should be thanked for bringing them there. If you want to discuss politics, why don't you start a thread about whatever political views you hold. Some members might be interested in exchanging views with you.
It would appear that this Pope's ideas are becoming materialized through his actions. Since he is the Pope his decisions and actions will bring grave consequences to the Body of Christ. So he can continue such actions and reap the results which must be answered for personally before God or he can come to the Light and humble himself to the position he holds with the power of the Keys of Peter. I pray that he will arrive to the latter rather than the former....not only for his own soul.....but for the growing confusion that must arrive to that moment that such errors will lead the sheep. What a dereliction of duty for any Shepherd to proceed in such a reckless manner where "Schism" to the Body of Christ, again, seems to mean nothing of any consequence. A pathway to the Purification's arrival yes but Woe to the creators of such a pathway.
It is troublesome to see a Pope react so nonchalantly at the prospect of schism. Troubling, too, that the Pope would invite Cardinal Marx to the Amazonian Synod. We have to be careful about criticism, but one can't help but wonder what contribution of any value (other than monetary) Cardinal Marx could make at that Synod. Time will tell whether we get a repeat of Cardinal Kasper's cat-got-the-cream attitude after the rigged Synod which resulted in the infamous Amoris Laetitia. Cardinal Burke has asked us to pray the Rosary for the participants in the Synod. The Chaplet of the Precious Blood offered for priests should help too because it's priests who will be left holding the bag whatever the outcome.
I criticized pope Francis a lot, not only in this forum. First for his inability to get rid of the corrupt bishops around himself, something that he should do in the first week of the papacy, instead of reappointing all the heads of congregations who automatically resign with every next conclave. And other things. But then the critics against him became just too many and too grave, from people who are supposed to help him, not to torpedo his pontificate. And I realized that if he steps down, as Benedict did for much less critics, then the Catholic Church will have even more dire situation...Something I tried to explain in the past several posts here and in another thread. Where is the politics in all that, I just don't understand. And it is not politics, when arcbp Vigano speaks and you all discuss? It is just absurd. Seems that most of traditional people just don't get it still. Far not only in this forum. As if they are the most right ones among all other billion Catholics who somehow don't understand the Gospel correctly, together with the majority of bishops? At least, you say you accept pope Francis as pope, although he is the biggest sinner from the 266 popes until now... Maybe bigger sinner than John XXII... As why I post about cardinal Marx in this thread, and don't open another one where no one would respond, according to the words of the respected poster, let read the title here "the Vatican has fallen", quite on the topic. If it was someone of you to post the headline news of German conference spat with the Vatican, you all would be now accusing cardinal Marx of heresy. But is is I who post, who somehow do not fit in your frames. (and frankly I do not even want to discuss about card. Marx, I just mentioned it). How many more "political" and ultra critical posts have been posted! But that is a double standard that shows where it all goes. At least one person may need that forum to remain in a clearly stated and lived communion with the Holy Father, and that is Concita of Garabandal, for her mission and through her for all of us. And don't say it is understandable that this forum will be Catholic. It all depends on its direction that is decided by each of you and by the overall moderation that allows this or that to happen. It is not for granted that EWTN for example will remain Catholic, although now after the pope's warning of schism Arroyo makes the impossible to look like pro pope... and at the same time as to contradict himself, he keeps the pace of criticism with all his invited guests. But it is their own problem. They lost me long ago. I'd wish indeed this forum to remain such as I found it first, full of information of major apparitions that I read here for the first time! Giving what other sites do not give. Not endless attacks on the pope, but the authentic words of the Mother of God, as your name says. Why don't you comment for example the words of Marija that the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart has started?
A Post-Salvini Italy Reverses Course; Welcomes Migrants From NGO Rescue Boat https://www.zerohedge.com/geopoliti...ourse-lets-migrants-disembark-ngo-rescue-boat
We were warned by our Lady a time would come when bishop would oppose bishop & cardinal vs cardinal. We are in these times. You are wrong to point a finger at this forum. Indeed some of your posts are deliberately provocative and divisive in my opinion.
Well they will have a mess on their hands. Hard to understand why he was voted out. Are their elections free of fraud. Europe is plunging toward cultural dissolution. Like lemmings. But why? Why do it? SMH.
Not like there is no connection to corruption in this particular country! Meanwhile..... Thousands Gather to Support Italian Hard-Liner Salvini Pontida, Italy (AP) -- Down but not out, Matteo Salvini pledged Sunday to tens of thousands of die-hard backers of his populist League that he will return to power stronger than before, as he seeks to rebound from a grave political miscalculation that pushed his party from government. "I'd rather concede seven ministry posts to traitors now that we will win back with interest and transparency in a few months," Salvini told an annual pilgrimage of cheering, banner-waving League voters to a foothill Lombard town with long historical associations to nationalist movements. This year's gathering took on additional significance as Salvini whips up his base in opposition to the new 5-Star-Democratic Party government that took office this month after his failed move to force new elections landed the League as the head of Italy's opposition and deprived him of his bully pulpit as the hard-line anti-migrant interior minister. "I expect (Salvini) will continue to be an effective force because the issues he gained credibility for — migration, taxes and security — remain salient," said Roberto D'Alimonte, a political science professor at Rome's LUISS University. "And if the (new) government does not address these issues, Salvini's strength will remain pretty much the same." The League remains the most popular party in Italy, and the League voters attending the Pontida pilgrimage made clear they were behind their "captain." Many in the crowd placed the blame for Salvini's fate on the grassroots 5-Star Movement for quickly realigning itself from its League coalition to form a new government with the one-time enemy, the center-left Democratic Party. They branded Premier Giuseppe Conte, head of both governments, a traitor. Luca Carminati, a laborer from nearby Bergamo, said he switched from voting for the center-right to the League five years ago. He said he has seen his boss struggling to keep a small business afloat in the face of high taxation and bureaucracy. "I like Salvini because he is the only one that fights the idea of a European Union, which I do not support, because I believe the European bureaucrats do not do Italy any good," Carminati said. Salvini "is trying to give value to the Italian people again." During his speech Salvini muted his often-fiery tones, urging supporters to be patient and polite in their political discourse. This came after a League lawmaker from Veneto drew fire for insulting Italy's president a day earlier. Still, speakers who took the stage before Salvini spoke of revolution and resistance, and the rank-and-file verbally attacked Italian leftist journalist Gad Lerner, who was flanked by police bodyguards. Lerner has often clashed with Salvini. Salvini also hit a euro-skeptic note as he warned Italy's European allies in shaky French, German and English that "the Italian people are no one's servant." Speaking to his base, Salvini said he would make a long-sought flat-tax of 15% a priority if he lands back in government and that in the meantime he would take the fight against migration to the level of local and regional governments, where the League has long prospered. He railed against Islam, burqas and pressed for more regional autonomy from Rome. D'Alimonte noted a subtle and recent shift in Salvini when he acknowledged that the new government is formally legitimate under the parliamentary system. D'Alimonte said the position indicated "he wants to play by the rules," though it remains to be seen if that sticks. Salvini needs to demonstrate even more profound change if he wants to return to power, said analyst Stefano Folli of La Repubblica. His political stumble has challenged his image as "a winner," and his association with extreme-right parties in France and Germany has flagged him a threat to Europe. "Salvini is an extreme-right danger that Europe cannot accept. If he maintains that position, he finishes his story," Folli said. "If he can change — which requires a deep cultural shift and a complicated political journey — and becomes an element of the conservative right in the European dynamic, he could return to government." https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...rt-italian-hard-liner-salvini?srnd=markets-vp
I don't think there was a general election in Italy. European countries don't tend to have a two-party system like in the US. Most if not all countries have a proportional representation system which tends to result in no single party winning an overall majority of parliamentary seats. Usually, the party which won the most seats goes into partnership with one or more other parties to form a government. Salvini's party won the most seats in the 2018 election and formed a coalition government with the M5S party which came in second. Those two parties had a falling out and M5S is now sharing government with the PDs. The PDs, led by Matteo Renzi, had been in government prior to the 2018 but Renzi resigned when his party finished third in the election. I think that those 1st, 2nd and 3rd places apply to the lower house in parliament and that Renzi's party may have done better in the Senate. The PDs seem to be an amalgam of all sorts of smaller left-leaning parties from former communists to Catholic social democrats. M5S would be the most left-leaning of the three parties. European politics can be very confusing, and Italian politics is more confusing than most.
Agree with Fatima that we are in the times. I think I know why Pope Benedict resigned. He may have wanted these times to have arrived quickly. Today we have church militants, clans, religious, devoted lay people etc., who have been well educated in the Church. They are fighters. If these times would have stayed dormant for a future generation there would have been less warriors. The Millennials are more secular in their beliefs. Pope Benedict may have brilliantly saved the Church. Let’s hope and pray.
In March 2010, Jesus told the author of In Sinu Jesu that His Immaculate Mother will intercede for an instruct His priests to prepare the world for His return in glory. Jesus told the monk that the renewal of His priests will be the beginning of the renewal of the Church. He said that the priesthood will be renewed and restored to its rightful place of honour and dignity "even in the eyes of the world". Then He said that the world would continue to hate and persecute His priest but no one will be able to deny that they are men transformed by an experience that transcends all that is purely human. Jesus also said: "I ask you to undertake this work of adoration because it is the necessary preparation for all that will follow. Pope Benedict XV1, My faithful and trusted servant, will see the fruits of his Year for Priests, and his heart will rejoice at the rising light of a new priestly holiness on the dark horizon." There are some good, holy, young priests, so perhaps the Pope Emeritus is already seeing that rising light. I hope so.
And then he says this. Pope Francis: Tradition is ‘the guarantee of the future’ By Courtney Grogan Vatican City, Sep 13, 2019 / 01:11 pm (CNA).- Fidelity to tradition ensures a fruitful future, Pope Francis said in a meeting Thursday with a contemplative-missionary community rooted in the spirituality of St. Augustine. “To be modern, some believe that it is necessary to break away from the roots. And this is their ruin, because the roots, the tradition, are the guarantee of the future,” Pope Francis said Sept. 12. In an audience with nearly 200 members of the General Chapter of the Discalced Augustinians, the pope explained that “true tradition” is like the roots that bring a tree sap that allows it to grow, flourish, and bear fruit. “Never break away from your roots to be modern, that's suicide,” Francis told the Augustinians. The Order of the Discalced Augustinians (OAD) was founded 1610 as a reform movement of the Order of St. Augustine (OSA), which dates back to 1244. “In this long religious tradition begun by St. Augustine, you Discalced Augustinians have your roots,” the pope said. “I encourage you to love and deepen your roots again and again.” “St. Augustine is one of those figures who make us feel fascinated with God, who attracts us to Jesus Christ and attracts us to the Word of God,” he said. In addition to the normal vows of poverty, chastity, and obedience, the contemplative-missionary order based on the Rule of St. Augustine takes a fourth vow of humility, which the order has chosen to emphasize and reflect upon this year with their motto: “Happy to serve the Most High in a spirit of humility.” Pope Francis said that he is enthusiastic about their decision to focus on humility this year. “Humility is a ‘key’, a key that opens the heart of God and the hearts of men,” he said. “And, first of all, it opens your own hearts to be faithful to your original charism, to always feel yourselves disciple-missionaries, available to God's call,” he added. Pope Francis said we are living in an age in which the mission ad gentes is being renewed, necessitating docility to the Holy Spirit. “We must always be attentive and docile to the voice of the Spirit: He is the protagonist, it is He who makes the Church grow! Not us, Him. The Holy Spirit is the wind that blows and keeps the Church going with that great strength of evangelization,” he said. *** But what about the JPII Institute? I pray that Pope Francis's statements above in regard to tradition are a sign that our prayers are working and the Amazon Synod will not be the embodiment of our fears. Jesus I trust in you. *** And it appears that everyone is afraid of Bejing except the Hong Kong protestors, of course. 16 Sept, 2019 On Hong Kong the Pope Is Silent. Obedient to Beijing http://magister.blogautore.espresso...ope-is-silent-obedient-to-beijing/?refresh_ce *** https://www.newsbook.com.mt/artikli/2019/09/14/why-pride-march/?lang=en *** From May 20, 2017... http://www.ncregister.com/blog/edwa...ling-at-god-the-ultimate-and-terrible-challen
I thought it was rigorists who are supposed to be obsessed with the sinfulness of others. I didn't raise the question about the sins of any Pope. John XX11 could be a saint in Heaven for all any of us knows. You also seem to share with the likes of the New York Times an understanding of Papal authority. It's nice that they finally acknowledge and embrace the Pope's authority. What a pity they lack the understanding that the authority doesn't begin and end with the current incumbent of the office and it isn't limitless nor is it limited to matters they agree with. Conchita isn't a member of the forum, so I'll leave you to speculate on where she or anyone will be in the future. I fully intend to be a member of the Church I was baptised into and raised in. What about you, Ezdras, are you a Roman Catholic too?
Marx says German 'synod' will proceed despite Vatican objections Cardinal Reinhard Marx at the Vatican Press Office on Oct. 17, 2014. Credit: Bohumil Petrik/CNA https://www.catholicnewsagency.com/...will-proceed-despite-vatican-objections-82211 Munich, Germany, Sep 16, 2019 / 11:45 am (CNA).- The head of the German bishops’ conference told Vatican officials last week that addressing controversial theological topics during the German bishops’ proposed “binding synodal path” will be a service to the universal Church. “We hope that the results of forming an opinion [on these matters] in our country will also be helpful for the guidance of the Universal Church and for other episcopal conferences on a case-by-case basis. In any case, I cannot see why questions about which the Magisterium has made determinations should be withdrawn from any debate, as your writings suggest,” Cardinal Reinhard Marx wrote in a Sept. 12 letter to Cardinal Marc Ouellet, who is head of the Vatican’ Congregation for Bishops. “Countless believers in Germany consider [these issues] to be in need of discussion,” Marx added. Marx’s letter informed the Vatican that the German synodal process will continue as planned, despite recent instructions from the Vatican curia and pope, and will treat matters of universal teaching and discipline. The letter followed a week of coverage concerning plans by the German bishops to create a Synodal Assembly with “deliberative power” to address issues including the separation of power in the Church, priestly life, women’s access to ministry and office in the Church, and sexual morality. The letter was a response to the Vatican’s most recent intervention in German preparations for a synodal process, in which Ouellet sent Marx a four-page legal assessment of the German plans, which concluded that the Synodal Assembly is contrary to instructions from Pope Francis and “not ecclesiologically valid.” The legal analysis especially criticized German plans to discuss matters of discipline and doctrine that have already been decided by the Church’s universal teaching or universal law. “It is easy to see that these themes do not only affect the Church in Germany but the universal Church and - with few exceptions - cannot be the object of the deliberations or decisions of a particular Church without contravening what is expressed by the Holy Father in his letter," concluded the legal review, signed by Archbishop Filippo Iannone, head of the Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts. CNA reported Sept. 5 that the executive committee of the German bishops’ conference in August had approved draft statutes for the creation of a Synodal Assembly, in partnership with the Central Committee of German Catholics – a lay group that has called for the ordination of women, an end to clerical celibacy, and the blessing of same-sex unions in churches. At the same meeting, the German bishops’ executive committee rejected an alternative synodal plan that was drafted to reflect the instructions of Pope Francis, issued to the bishops in a June letter to all the faithful of Germany. Those instructions warned the bishops against falling into a “new Pelagianism,” and insisted that synodality could not be used as an excuse for reducing Church governance and teaching to a democratic process. In his Sept. 12 letter to Ouellet, Marx registered his apparent disapproval at the Vatican’s decision to present its legal advice without consulting him first. “Perhaps a conversation before sending these documents would have been helpful,” Marx wrote. In an apparent rejection of the Vatican’s legal assessment, Marx added that the Church in Germany will “conduct a consultation of our own kind that is not covered by canon law.” The legal opinion of the Pontifical Commission for Legislative Texts, sent to the Germans by Ouellet, concluded that the bishops seem intent on convening a particular council “without using the word” as a means of passing binding resolutions without Roman approval. A council differs from a synod in that, with Vatican approval, it is able to make new policies for the Church in a particular reason. But Marx said Germany’s plans are not for a council, or even a synod in the traditional sense, but something unique and not anticipated by canon law. “The Synodal Way is a sui generis process,” Marx wrote. “The draft statutes should therefore by no means be read and interpreted through the lens of canonical instruments such as a plenary council. It is not a Particular Council!” The cardinal’s letter also insisted that the Vatican legal assessment is based on a draft of the German plans which “has long been outdated” and had since been “further developed in July and August.” The version of the statutes passed by the German bishops’ executive committee on Aug. 19 was obtained and published by CNA. While Marx noted that the statutes include a recognition of the authority of both the diocesan bishop and the episcopal conference, Article 2 of the current statues say that the Synodal Assembly “has deliberative power.” Despite Marx’s insistence to Ouellet that the statutes underwent further changes in August, CNA has obtained internal documents from the German bishops’ conference that show that the statutes most recently voted on by the executive committee, were drafted Aug. 1 and remained unchanged through the end of that month. CNA has confirmed with officials at both the Congregation for Bishops and the Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts that the Vatican was already in possession of the most recent draft of the German synodal statutes by the time Ouellet’s letter was sent to Marx on Sept. 4. The current version was also considered by Marx to be sufficiently finalized that he instructed conference officials to prepare authorized translations of the statues in various languages following the Aug. 19 meeting. Senior conference officials told CNA that it is the intention of the German bishops to create an example which can be “exported” to other parts of the world. The results will be “helpful for the guidance of the universal Church and for other episcopal conferences,” Marx wrote. The text of Marx’s letter was released to German media over the weekend, appearing in Frankfurter Allgemeine on Saturday.
It's like watching and old play. Nothing new. Everyone knows the actors, the story and the end but they buy theatre tickets and go watch it for the entertainment value.
The man continues to mystify. People are rightly concerned with his statements about schism, but there might be a less sinister explanation, as I think Father Z might have suggested (wouldn't swear it was there I read it). His statement that he is not worried about schism might mean that he doesn't care if it happens, but it could also mean that he considers it unlikely to happen. He is a man that never stops talking, but simultaneously he is not a clear communicator. This lack of clarity might be ultimately a Godsend. I think we must all resist the temptation to reject his papal position. He is, whether we like it or not, the valid pope. We have two popes (can a pope ever stop being a pope?), but Benedict is a retired one and is no more an active pope than any of his predecessors that have been retired a stage further. That's only my understanding, so I'm happy to stand corrected if anyone has more definite information. I continue to pray for our pope in the hope that he will become more loyal to the tenets of the faith and increasingly in the hope that his exposure of the cancer in the body of his Church is in fulfillment of God's will and that he is confusing the heretics more than the orthodox.
