The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. SteveD

    SteveD Powers

    I share your confusion. I am constantly aware that Francis is on record as saying that he may go down in history as the Pope who caused a schism. This admission (boast?) does not give me any confidence that he intends to take any notice of those in the Church (e.g. the Dubia Cardinals) who try to query the theological basis of his moves to 'modernise' the Church. I believe that his full agenda, and that of the Gallen 'mafia' who engineered his election, is much more radical than most traditionalists will be able to 'stomach'. For me, the question is 'has he gone too far already? And, if not, what does he have to do for me to decide that he has? I think that the outcome of the 'Amazon Synod' will force many of us to make hard decisions. If a married clergy and female deacons are among the next steps to be 'considered' (i.e. to happen) then I would expect some bishops to decide that 'enough is enough' and to say and do what is appropriate/necessary. If schism occurs, I am with those who will oppose Francis.

    Happily, we have two Popes in the Vatican and the 'retired' one is not silent and still signs himself as Pope Benedict. Had he gone to a monastery never to be heard from again then we might feel ourselves to be orphans, but as things are we are not and, who knows, we may see him assume office again.
     
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  2. Mario

    Mario Powers

    Well said, Padraig. My head spins with the constant creation of confusion, so I will pray, and try to fast more frequently. Why raise my blood pressure when no bishop, cardinal, or Pope will give me five minutes. But I have recourse to Jesus and Mary at any time!:cool::D

    Safe in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary!
     
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  3. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Yes, it is God's Church and He will take care of it.

    His Bride. What Bridegroom what not mind His very own Bride?

    But if our Darkest suspicions are correct it's going to get loads and loads and loads worse before it gets healed. Loads and loads and loads worse.
     
  4. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    So a self-admitted non-expert blogger has announced he is rejecting the sitting pontiff.
    For someone complaining that Pope Francis is leading people out of the Church, this man seems to be doing a bang-up job of it himself.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2019
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  5. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    It almost seems as if their goal is a RICO case in the US.
     
  6. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Did someone mention whited sepulchers?
     
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  7. AED

    AED Powers

    You Express perfectly what I am thinking and feeling. I simply dont know anything about anything at this time--except my own sins and that knowledge is imperfect at best. I also know that praying Sacred Heart of Jesus I place all my trust in you and Immaculate Hesrt of Mary I give you my heart and my soul are perfect prayers in this darkness. We are as a Church being scourged and stripped and full of fear and confusion. IOW the Passion. I certainly understand why reasoning devout Catholics need to ponder legitimacy but I dare not go there. Holding on with might and main to the blessed mantle of Our Mother!!! That is all I can or will do.
     
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  8. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Bless you.

    I love Padre Pio and when I ask myself what he would have done if he were still alive it is a huge consolation to know that is exactly what he would have done. :)

    If it's good enough for Padre Pio it's good enough for me. :);)

    It is a different situation of course for Cardinals and Bishops . They have a much higher calling.

    Pray , hope and don't worry suits me just fine. :):):)

     
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  9. Jo M

    Jo M Powers

    What a wonderful video. It was truly an emotional moment for me as I have been praying so hard to Padre Pio. When the cares of the world and my family get the best of me, I always send my guardian angel to St.Pio to bring me comfort from my worries. Thank you, Padraig, I needed to see this today.
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2019
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  10. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    Do you have some of his holy oil?

    https://www.padrepio.org

    This is the site for the National Shrine for Padre Pio. It has a gift shop where you can purchase sacramentals and holy oil.
     
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  11. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Padre Pio is so good. He really does look after his children. When I got into San Giovanni I had nowhere to stay but a Franciscan Friar in the Church told a local couple to look after me as soon as I walked in.

    They spoilt me rotten, I was treated like a visiting king, got the full tour of the monastery and hospital.

    Better than the best hotel in the world. Beautiful family.Free too. Which is what I needed as I has no dough.:D;)
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
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  12. Jo M

    Jo M Powers

    No, I had no idea that his oil was available !!! Thank you HH, for the link...how wonderful!
     
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  13. SteveD

    SteveD Powers

    He claims no expert knowledge of theology or canon law, I don't claim any either and I don't suppose that you do. Which puts all our opinions on a par. I don't read him as encouraging anyone to 'leave the Church' and neither would I do so. All I know is that the regulations laid down by St.JPII relating to the conduct of electors and others prior to, and during conclaves, appears to have been totally ignored by Francis' supporters and by himself too. Which raises the legitimate question: Is he validly elected? I personally doubt it. It's my Church as much as his or his supporters and I'm not leaving and I very much doubt that Laurence England is going to leave either or is encouraging anyone else to do so.
     
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  14. Jo M

    Jo M Powers

    My goodness, what a wonderful blessing!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 14, 2019
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  15. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    I’m reserving judgement about his validity but it does appear murky.
     
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  16. AED

    AED Powers

    (y):)
     
  17. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Fulton Sheen tells a wonderful but rather scarey story about a stay he had in Lourdes when he was a young priest. He stayed in a class hotel there for three days , counting on Our Lady to bail him out with the dough at the end of his stay. Each day he went down to the grotto to remind her to cough up, but ...no joy. :D

    The very last day he met up with a rich American and his family who asked him if he spoke English and knew Paris. When he said that he did they asked him to be their guide and paid his hotel bills.

    Fulton was a hoot.:D:D:D

     
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  18. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    I understand where you're coming from Steve and I truly do sympathize with you or any who struggle to understand all of this. I struggle to understand all of this. And you are right I am no expert, but that doesn't put my statement on par with Mr. England. Anyone who rejects a sitting Pope severs himself from the Church. That is just basic Church Teaching. No need to be an expert. By posting his detailed thesis he is encouraging others to follow him, whether that was intentional or not.

    There are several different scenarios for what is going on now which we all know about, but the fact is that all of the Bishops of the world accept Pope Francis as legitimate. The conclave announced he was elected properly. Pope Benedict announced he resigned properly. Could there have been problems with any or all of this? Yes, but that is not up to each individual to decide for him or herself. That is just Protestantism. We Catholics operate through the hierarchy because God wants it that way. Sometimes parts of the hierarchy are rotten, but they are still the hierarchy.
     
    Last edited: May 15, 2019
  19. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    I agree with someone's comment on that post by Laurence England:

    "was it not just Good Shepherd Sunday - what did our Lord say "He calls his own sheep by name and leads them out...his sheep follow him because they KNOW his voice. But they will never follow a stranger; in fact, they will run away from him because they do not recognize a stranger’s voice.” I don't see any discussion in this verse about waiting around for experts as if the Catholic Faith is unknowable - it is knowable - not trivial - but knowable by men - I think a whole lot of sheep don't recognize Bergoglio's voice"

    Also, we have Scripture telling us what to do:
    Gal 1:8
    But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema.
     
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  20. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    Cardinal Luigi Ciappi (1909-1996), personal theological adviser to five popes,, and one of the few persons who had seen the complete 3rd secret of Fatima, wrote in a 1995 letter to Professor Baumgartner of Salzburg:
    “In the Third Secret it is predicted, among other things, that the great apostasy in the Church will begin at the top.”
     
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