Perseverance didn’t drop off the list of virtues either. There is history here that you don’t know fully. A rich history. You watched 1 video and have put all your responses from that 1 video conversation and have concluded that all translations were wrong. Although I have written that the translation I have were approved by the Archdiocese of Trani. Since you are into the chain of command and who has approved what to whom and when I would suggest you persevere through that chain of command. If you really wanted to know about this gift you would contact the Archdiocese of Trani yourself. You can start at this website. LuisaPicarrettaofficial.org. The association is in Corato Italy under the Archdiocese of Trani. Yes they were approved in 1982. Ask them, argue with them. You could go to the Vatican as well, but they will just send you to the Archdiocese of Trani because as I have explained they have full authority over everything concerning Luisa Picarretta. You could also read her biography that was published by the Vatican. As for what the Bishop said in 2003, because you haven’t read the writings, you don’t know what he is referring to. If you ever do read the volumes, which clearly you are not planning on doing, we could visit this statement by the Bishop and you would understand what he is talking about. Your ability to argue with every answer given to you does not show that you are wise. For true Wisdom would lead one to find the answers from the very people who have authority. But your unwillingness to go to the top, and your continuous arguments with us on this blog shows that you are more concerned with having the ability to argue in a discussion. You have never asked how did we get the information that we have passed on to you, instead you argued with everything we did say. Since 2015 my Bishop has been aware of my Cenacle. But the information on how and why will not be given to you. Why give you more to talk about and question. As I stated I wanted to know the truth so I went to God myself. I didn’t spend my evenings arguing with people over the writings. Then the information came to me. I will not discuss anymore of this with you. It’s up to you and you alone. May you be blessed.
Wow, seriously? ... The information will not be given to you... Seems like you have ran out of runarounds. Dolours asks very logical and reasonable questions and that’s the best you can do? Not terribly convincing.
Indeed, Frodo, there's a strange kind of love in that version of the divine will. Neither the Archbishop nor anyone acting with his approval posted this on the forum: "I want you to meditate on the Gospel of John 20: 1-10. Mary Mag’Dalene went to the tomb while it was still dark. She went back to get the Priest (John) and the Pope (Peter). John beat Peter to the tomb but waited until Peter went in and approved before he went in. This Kingdom is playing out the same way. Jesus tells us this in the writings. The lay people will get there first, then the Priest but they will wait for the Pope to say The Master will come again. There is so much knowledge in these writings of the state of the church and our Priest. The secret of Fatima is in the writings, the illumination is in the writings, the Antichrist. All that everyone wants to know is in the writings. But...it isn’t fearful or crazy it is all peace" Seeing that text in an official Vatican translation/interpretation will be worth the wait and I reckon I won't the the only person asking questions about it.
Just my thoughts! So many Catholics are unwilling to listen to Church teachings! In fact here at the MoG forum many are deceived already. I’ll post below just some of this heresies of Lusia Picaretta that these poor Catholics are willing to accept despite the True Catholic Faith that they were raised in. Living in the divine will heresies includes, what constitutes giving less and less importance given to the Blessed Eucharist?? Which our Lady has mourned at Fatima and at Garabandal!! Lusia has Jesus saying in the following in her Book of Heaven, Volume 16, November 5, 1923 "My daughter, this mirror is the accidents of bread which keep me imprisoned in them. I form my life in the Host, but this gives me NOTHING: not an affection, not a palpitation, not the smallest 'I love you.' It is, as it were, dead for Me. I remain alone, without the shadow of any exchange; and, therefore, My Love is almost impatient to go out, to break this glass (of the accidents) descending into hearts, to find in them that exchange that the Host neither knows how, nor can gives to me. But do you know where I find my true exchange? In the soul that lives in my will My daughter, do I perhaps not live in the Sacramental Hosts, Living and True, in Soul, Body, Blood and Divinity? Because there is not a will that opposes mine. If I were to find a will in the Host that opposed mine, I would live neither Real Life, nor perennial Life in It. And this is also the reason why the Sacramental Accidents are consumed when creatures receive me, because I do not find a human will united in such a way that they want to lose theirs, in order to make acquisition of mine; but if I find a will that wants to act, that wants to do by itself; and I make My little visit and leave. On the contrary, for Him who lives in my Will, My will and his are one alone; and if I do it in the hosts, much more can I do it in him; much more so, since I find a palpitation, an affection, My exchange and My gain, which I do not find in a host. Book of Heaven, Volume 16, November 5, 1923 Also Lusia has Jesus mocking priests and also no need for confession either, for those living in the Divine Will!! Luisa says, "I was feeling oppressed because of the privation of my sweet Jesus, with the addition that the confessor - because I had not had the trust to open up with him, and because I was bad - had denied me the absolution. So, having received Holy Communion, I abandoned myself in the arms of my most sweet Jesus, and I said to Him: ‘My Love, help me - do not abandon me. You know in what a state I find myself because of your privation; and still, instead of help, creatures add pains upon paof ins. Without You, I have no one else – either with You, or on my own, crying over my hard lot of having lost You. This should push You more not to leave me alone - to at least keep company with a poor abandoned one who lives dying in her hard exile. Therefore, You who are the Highest Priest, give me the absolution, tell me that you forgive the sins that are in my soul - let me hear your most sweet voice that gives me life and forgiveness.’ . . . "Jesus responds, "And besides, my Will encloses all the Sacraments and their effects; therefore, abandon yourself completely in my Will, make It your own, and you will receive the effects of the absolution, or of anything else which you might be denied." The above is very scary stuff for some of our poor fellow catholics who believe such heresies! And that is why I'm starting to believe that this "divine will movement" is an integral part of the anti-christ movement to "deceive many"! We must be strong in the truth! Because many will be willing to compromise truth for this lie! Lord have Mercy on us all! Amen
This is from a letter written Nov. 1, 2012 by Archbishop Giovanni Battista Pichierri, (the cause of the beautification of the Servant of God, Luisa Piccarreta: "I wish to address all those who claim that these writings contain doctrinal errors. This, to date, has never been endorsed by any pronouncement by the Holy See, nor personally by myself. I would like to note that in this way, in addition to anticipate the legitimate judgement of the Church, these persons cause scandal to the faithful who are spiritually nourished by said writings... I invite you to make more serious and in-depth meditations and reflections in your personal reading on these writings...." "Necessary prudence cannot lessen the ardor of those who feel compelled to spread the knowledge of the sanctity of life of the Servant of God, or of those who recommend the reading of her writings, or of those who encourage the faithful prayer for her beautification. All this not only is NOT prohibited, rather very much desirable." If anyone would like to read the Archbishops entire letter, I would be more than happy to email it to you. Fr. Joseph Iannuzzi said in a recent letter: "Now, the more priests come to know the treasures contained in Luisa's text, the more the faithful will come to read and love them. This is why it is important for priests to continue to offer Divine Will retreats, conferences and distribute theological treaties in which they faithfully explain the doctrines contained within Luisa's text." (It is for this that we pray each day - that more Priests come to know the knowledge of living in the Divine Will.) Fr. Joseph's ecclesiastically approved doctoral dissertation explaining the doctrine and theology of Luisa's text, which has received written endorsements of many Catholic Archbishops and Bishops can be obtained through his website: www.LTDW.org I have many more letters from Bishops and Archbishops who support the Servant of God, Luisa Piccarreta and find her writings "not contrary to Catholic faith or morals". If you wish, I can also email copies of these letters to you. This is a letter written by Saint Annibale di Francis (I have posted John Paul II's letter to the Rogationist Fathers at the Beatification of Saint Annibale on MOG "New and Divine Holiness" - the very first post. This is the letter: "...it as there, in Corato, that I was given the imprimaturs and nihil obstat's of Luisa's first 19 volumes. This proved to be a blessing, as several professors and theologians to whom I had later given these seals of approval, embraced them with great interest. May I extend these seals to all of you who continue to nurture a deep love of the Church, that they may serve as an incentive to meditate with unparalleled enthusiasm on the approved writings of the Servant of God." I pray that this will stop the bickering regarding Luisa's writings and begin to spread the knowledge of living in the Divine Will which Jesus teaches us in 36 volumes and her other writings as well. Also, I am wondering how these posts regarding Luisa came to be posted on this thread about "antichrist" - Jesus never once mentioned antichrist to Luisa! May Our Lord grant you His Peace and may His Kingdom come quickly on earth! Fiat Lynne
If as you say, Luisa and her followers are "heretics", I find it very odd that a heretic could live 65 years bedridden, with No bed sores, on the Eucharist alone! Does anyone else find this mystery of holiness to be connected to heresy? Please don't tell me that the devil gave Luisa the strength to survive on the Body, blood, soul and divinity of Jesus alone for 65 years. Think about this for a while. See how long you could last on the Eucharist alone then come talk to me about her being a heretic and her writings being heretical.
I have no clue as to what "the Vatican" means when people here use it as their excuse for denying what is now permitted by the Church re: what the faithful can now read, study, and discuss about the Divine Will under the auspices of the local ordinary. "The Vatican" today is understood as those as well who advise the Pope as he looks to them for various opinions of "guidance", whose opinions on his own definitive writings he has told the faithful to read and accept as proper to those writings, and that group is argued within this forum (as well as by the other advisors of the "Vatican" who have demanded more clarity in what has been confusing to the faithful's understanding....IOW, no final definition in such teaching) as involving many who themselves are in need of proper instruction on the Faith and not to be followed when their current and ongoing misinformation about traditional teachings is offered to the faithful.....and that being emphasized currently within certain other ongoing private revelations approved by the local authority who stands for the Church in such matters. So that "Vatican" is clueless about this particular PR and has offered nothing other than what they assume is being handled elsewhere and by those individuals w/ greater expertise than themselves.....why the expertise of one of those considered more knowledgeable in the study of eschatology, Fr. Iannuzzi, has been delved into and awarded for such offering of greater depth within acceptable translations of the writings.....which don't differ with anything permitted to be read by Luisa's, the Divine Will revelation's, local authority=authority of the Church! So those experts here who very patiently offer what is given in this great gift of preparation for the fulfillment of the Our Father, the perfect prayer of God Himself and so His Divine Will, are more in tune with the Church when it comes to the advice re: private revelations. They have either the permission of their local authority, as outlined by how the permissions for individual study are governed by the Church currently, or by the authority over the revelation himself using the best translations accepted by himself, as the ongoing authority. The authority over the revelation itself is still the local authority as has been from the beginning....so what he currently permits is in line with the permissions currently offered by the Church. In fact the ongoing study by certain individuals in Rome has not denied the ongoing authority of the local bishop for guidance. Thus any kind of "Vatican approval" is nothing more than what is currently understood and permitted by the local authority (since he stands for the Church) while a further education by those in Rome, for themselves in fact, continues until the chosen time when even more of the faithful, through a larger means of communication, will be able to acquaint themselves with this most necessary revelation of preparation for the New Era of "Living in the Divine Will". More people must become readied first by those, like John the Baptist of his time who was called upon to preach "in the wilderness" (those ignorant of this great proclamation for the preparation of that great coming of Christ) while the authorities, so threatened by his Elijah type of expression of their own biblical truth/prophecies, necessitated the only solution for their own loss of control panic.....kill the messenger!
From the Papal Address of John Paul II on Nov. 6,2002: “This is our great hope and our invocation: ‘Your Kingdom come!’ - a Kingdom of peace, justice and serenity, which will re-establish the original harmony of creation.” This is the essence of the writings in The Book of Heaven! Fiat!
You cherry picked the quotes, the full letter with it's translation is here (there's no need to use email): https://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/Luisa_Piccarreta1112.htm Here are some parts the you intentionally left out: "I note, still in pain, that the doctrine of the Divine Will has not always been presented in a respectful and correct manner, according to the Doctrine of the Church and the Magisterium, placing on the lips of Luisa claims that not even implicitly are found in her writings. This causes trauma in the consciousness and even confusion and rejection in people and among the priests and bishops... " "7. I must, however, point out the increasing uncontrolled spread of transcriptions, translations and publications both on paper and computer. Instead, taking account of the sensitivity of the current phase every publication of the writings is absolutely suspended. Anyone who takes action in the opposite way disobeys and seriously damages the Cause of the Servant of God (Press, 30 May 2008). Therefore, in every way "leaps forward" regarding publication should be avoided." Read in its entirety, it is quite clear that English translations posted online and elsewhere is done so in disobedience. This view is also corroborated by EWTN's Collin Donovan who personally met with Fr. Bucci and relates the following here: https://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/luisa_piccarreta.htm "At this time there are still NO official English translations of any of the volumes. As previously stated to EWTN by the Postulation, the complexity of translating from the dialect used by the author into Italian, and then from Italian into other languages, and doing so consistent with the doctrine of the faith, makes it absolutely necessary that the prohibition of unauthorized translations be observed. When the critical edition with theological notes is completed, and approved by the Holy See, only then will the Postulation authorize translations, and then only from the critical edition." It is clear that they, with first hand knowledge from meeting with the authority themselves, do not agree with your assessment. You post unapproved English translations in disobedience. There is no other way to objectively say it. Ask the member Fatima. he stated that the way has been Our Lady and her remedies, but now the ultimate gift is Luisa's Divine Will way. I object very strongly to that advice on a Catholic forum. Do you agree with his accessment?
Frodo - I happened to be at that meeting with Colin Donovan and Deacon Bill Steltemeier - and I can tell you that they both left that meeting with a very positive attitude about Luisa and her writings as I spent the entire drive down to Atlanta and back to Hanceville talking to them about it. Colin's original post on Luisa was basically positive, but there was a small group of people in Hanceville who were against Luisa (as you are) and they most likely put pressure on Colin to change his stance. These same people threatened my husband and myself, so I can tell you that they were not very Godly people. As far as the writings are concerned, what other Saints have had their writings translated and have had more negative responses to their writings just because of the translations? The reason for all these problems and anger against Luisa is due to the enemy who sees his time is at end - once Our Lord has His Kingdom on earth - which WILL HAPPEN- this enemy will be gone from the earth. Therefore, he is out to stop the knowledge of living in the Divine Will to be known. I myself will continue to give this message to all who will listen. Fiat!
I just returned from Adoration and had been questioning if I should no longer post on the MOG site as I am so tired after 25+ years of defending Luisa and the writings. I just felt I could no longer do this, but then Jesus reminded me of how tired he was (and still is) when He walked to Calvary and hung on the Cross for us. As I sat there in the Chapel, I went to open my Book of Heaven and found that I had brought the wrong book. It was the book with Luisa's letters in it. Well, Luisa also had something to say as I opened to Letter #75 and read: "The evil spirits of the earth and of hell make feast, because the Divine Will has such strength that even a single piece of knowledge of It, one word about It, or one action done with It, makes the spirits of darkness feel such torture as to feel their power paralyzed, and their torments in hell increased. Therefore, we should take to heart making this Kingdom of the Divine Will known, and living in It." Blessings to all. Lynne
I wouldn't infer that Colin Donovan representing one entity of communication, EWTN, is any kind of expert on this private revelation and to stop with him as other than one of many current spokespersons (not for the Revelation itself but only one of those offered for opinion by this particular means of modern communication) about what is permitted by the Church re: how or by whom or where discussions, readings or even conferences can be done. He has himself offered differing takes about the Divine Will to others who have had to school him on the correct information. He has merely relayed a portion of the details about where the authority lies for such things to continue in general. No one should take that source as any kind of declared forbiddance by the Church against what is occurring within the permitted parameters of teachings being conducted by such as Tom Fahy or Lynnfiat. The excuse or advice that such meetings should be linked to the Church authority and not be spread w/o proper understanding or through those considered to be knowledgeable is nothing more than what is advised by any other private revelation, approved or unapproved. In fact we still have the confusion within the faithful about what has or hasn't been revealed in truth and fulness by the Vat. reps re: Fatima over the years. Same is true within the messages that formed the Marian Movement of Priests which the Church considers as the saving grace for faithful priests (as backed by JPII) during this horrendous time of confusion, coming down even from the top! To end the confusion the Church allows and even suggests to go to the source considered the authority over any particular revelation in question. Within this category it is the protocol to leave the authority with the local ordinary of its occurrence.
Another private revelation (Monsignor Octavio Michelini) on the significance of the LORD's prayer (February 5, 1976) Here enters the Commandment of love, as an essential part of the prayer to God the Father. The divine paternity is also equivalent to the love of one's neighbor. We say: “Our Father” to remind ourselves of the love toward the brethren who like ourselves are children of the same and only Father, from whom our life has issued by creation, and toward whom we return. In Him we should fix our glance with confidence, as a shipwrecked person looks with confidence and hope toward the polar star. “Hallowed be thy name.” We should hallow, that is, glorify, the holy name of God, uniting ourselves to the chorus of all voices (for all creatures have voices), fulfilling thus the finality of creation, which is the glorification of God. “Thy kingdom come.” He who truly loves forgets himself, for his thought runs toward the person loved, from whom he desires happiness. “Thy will be done (FIAT) on earth, as it is in heaven.” To seek our own desires and wishes is to place ourselves before others, and this is egotism; to place the Divine Will before our will, so that God may work His will in us, as He does it in heaven-this is love. If he who prays does so with these sentiments, and if he places himself in God's presence, preoccupied only with His glory, with the desire that His kingdom may come and that His Will may be done, operating in Him, he (the person who prays this way) will see un-thought of and marvelous effects produced in his prayer; everything will be given to him and in a superabundant measure.
Yes, I know you were there. Obviously though you thought it went much better than it did. You are relaying your interpretation of his impression - which is not backed up by any facts. Honestly, they have had ample chance to make a change in their stance, and they have not. That speaks pretty loudly as to where they stand. You can't get any more direct than that. In fact the capitalization of NO in the quote stating that there is no official translation that is approved - was there's. Not to mention the fact that you cherry picked the bishop's letter and didn't post the aspects that are detrimental to your view. No response from you there... As for Saints that have had negative responses to translations - St. Faustina obviously comes to mind. The transaltion was corrected and now there are no problems. I don't know if there are more, but I don't feel the need to do any in depth search. Are the objections to MDM and Bayside due to the enemy as well? That's what every follower of an apparition that turns out to have problems tells themselves when they aren't accepted as is. Not convincing in their case, neither is it in this one. I know my faith, Fr. Hardon knew it, EWTN knows it. To know the ins and outs of the revelation is not as important as is recognizing when alleged messages are at odds with it. Obviously there are issues being that 1) it was originally placed on the index of forbidden books and 2) the Bishop has asked for a stop to unauthorized translations due to it being detrimental to her cause.
Nobody here "is out to stop the knowledge of living in the Divine Will to be known". People are urging caution and with good reason. A member here is spreading what she claims are approved passages from Luisa's writings as well as giving the meaning. That member claims to know that the critical edition of the writings will have the same meaning as her "approved" translation. And she claims to not need the approval of her local Ordinary because she has the approval of the Bishop of Trani. Can you not see a problem with this? Instead of questioning motives of members here who urge caution and ask questions, perhaps it would better serve Luisa's cause to do as the Bishop has done and caution Luisa's followers to seek guidance from their local Ordinary. Any of you claiming to be authorised to quote from whatever translation you have of Luisa's writings, along with their correct interpretation, should be able to supply some kind of evidence of who has given you that authority and when you received it. There's a huge difference between promoting Luisa's cause for sainthood and quoting as well as giving supposed authoritative interpretations of her writings. Despite what Fatima claims, devotion to the Divine Mercy is widespread. I queue for hours for Confession on Divine Mercy Sunday. It was all systems go for St. Faustina's diary once the problems with the incorrect translation were resolved. There's no reason why the same can't happen with Luisa's messages, but random posters on an internet forum claiming to have some kind of inside knowledge are bound to raise suspicions. Asking questions or drawing attention to error or urging caution are not signs of hate.
Frodo, I must comment on the way you denounce the pro-Luisa posters here. They have responded in moderate tones to your vehement disapproval. In comment #52 on this thread, member Fatima expresses hope and his opinion (which carries no more weight than anyone else's). He wrote: "While this has been the key, Luisa opened up the door for the ultimate gift of Living in the Divine Will. More will understand this after the Warning, but it is to everyone's benefit to have accepted this gift now, before the warning and tribulation. As one message I received yesterday from a friend said, "our physical and spiritual protection is no longer guaranteed without living in the divine will". Then in the next post you wrote Take this Luisa crap somewhere else Fatima. Don’t you dare talk down my Mother. @padraig this is our Lady’s forum. This Luisa stuff is going too far. It’s a showing it’s real ugly face here. I also feel that you are giving the phrase 'Divine Will' a bad connotation by your angry responses to this private revelation. Maybe the pro-Luisa posters may say something along the lines with an asterisk that the final English translation is not out yet, but... here are messages approved from the Italian Bishop.... Finally, you are not acknowledging the level of sanctity that Luisa P. achieved in her mystical life. Sustained only by the Holy Eucharist for so many years is miraculous and not to be taken with disregard. I wonder which private revelation affected your loved ones so much that you are leery of all of them?
Yes, these revelations may be right and they may be wrong (though I do not understand them my own instinct is to suppose they are right) I cannot quite understand the vehemence they sometimes raise. Rabbi Gamaliel's warning in Acts springs to mind: Acts 5 Gamaliel's Advice 33When the Council members heard this, they were enraged and wanted to put the apostles to death. 34But a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law who was honored by all the people, stood up in the Sanhedrin and ordered that the men be put outside for a short time. 35“Men of Israel,” he said, “consider carefully what you are about to do to these men. 36Some time ago Theudas rose up, claiming to be somebody, and about four hundred men joined him. He was killed, all his followers were dispersed, and it all came to nothing. 37After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and drew away people after him. He too perished, and all his followers were scattered. 38So in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone. Let them go! For if their purpose or endeavor is of human origin, it will fail. 39But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop them. You may even find yourselves fighting against God.” 40At this, they yielded to Gamaliel. They called the apostles in and had them flogged. Then they ordered them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and released them. 41The apostles left the Sanhedrin, rejoicing that they had been counted worthy of suffering disgrace for the Name. 42Every day, in the temple courts and from house to house, they did not stop teaching and proclaiming the good news that Jesus is the Christ.
Why can't we all just accept that there are some of us who do not believe in this and just stop trying to persuade or force feed?
Well I explained it twice. Fatima posted that they way used to be Our Lady, but now it is the Divine Will way. I take offense to that, it is UnCatholic. Period. That’s why I was so vehement. I’m not talking about killing anyone. This scripture passage seems more appropriate in my mind: Galatians 1:8 “But though we, or an angel from heaven, should preach unto you any gospel other than that which we preached unto you, let him be anathema.” There seems to be an effort to push a faulty interpretation, based on Unapproved translations, that is not in accord with the Tradition of our Faith. And on top of it, my Mother is now second fiddle to this new way. On a Marian forum no less. And I’m out of line for calling it crap? Strange times indeed.
