I would add this to what others have said....... It seems to me that there was something of the prophetic to Pope John Paul adding the luminous mysteries, especially for our time when the necessity of God's saving grace and the Sacraments are treated as optional extras or disregarded altogether. The baptism of the Lord. Lukewarm Catholics (and no doubt quite a few priests) are buying into the belief that infant baptism is either unnecessary or an infringement of children's rights. Some recent statements suggest that even our hierarchy need reminding of what Jesus said about being born again of water and the Holy Spirit. The marriage feast at Cana. It's hardly necessary on a Catholic forum to remind anyone about where the world and the Church are where marriage is concerned. The proclamation of the Kingdom of God. Jesus said "Repent for the Kingdom of God is at hand". How many people repent? How many believe that a loving God would go along with whatever they (we) do? The Sacrament of Reconciliation is simply ignored. The transfiguration. A reminder that Jesus wasn't just some nice guy but was both human and divine, and that something far greater than our human minds can comprehend awaits us if we keep the faith to the end. The institution of the Eucharist. We all need reminding that we don't receive just bread and wine at Communion. With regard to Fatima, I can understand Lucia's mother's reaction especially in the context of that time. The lady was devout and a disciplinarian, probably horrified at events in Portugal at that time. The last thing she needed was the kind of attention the children were getting. She was probably terrified that the children had been playing a game of make believe and deluded themselves into believing it was real, and feared the repercussions should it all be debunked. She would have feared the repercussions from both the clergy and the civil authorities. A woman of standing in the village teaching the faith to the children, it must have been a nightmare scenario for her. No doubt today's psychiatrists and psychologists would have some fancy name for what Lucia's mother called a lie. Jacina and Francisco's parents were more inclined to believe the children or adopt a wait and see approach - perhaps because the parents were more easy going or perhaps because two children in their house had witnessed the apparitions and the (younger than Lucia) children were corroborating each other's account of what they had seen. The Church has only investigated and issued a statement on the early apparitions to the children. Later apparitions and messages to Lucia have not been investigated or received a determination from the Church as to their validity - and I think that includes the warning to remember what happened the King of France.
Don, there is a story regarding the August Fatima apparition, that you may not have heard of. The apparition was to happen on August 13, 1917, but because the mayor of the village had the three kids detained and threatened with death, the apparition did not take place as planned. When Lucia, Jacinta, and Francisco were released back to their families, the apparition took place August 19th , at a different grazing site for the sheep called Valinhos. Our Lady stood on a different tree, a slightly taller holmoak tree. Lucia again told the Blessed Virgin that it was difficult for the people to believe. Our Lady responded, “In October, I will perform a miracle so that everyone may believe in the apparitions. If they had not taken you to the town (meaning detention), the miracle would be even greater. St. Joseph will come with the Holy Child to bring peace to the world. Our Lord will come to bless the people. Our Lady of the Rosary and Our Lady of Dolors will also come at that time.” In every apparition, Lucia asked for cures for the people that requested. Our Lady responded in kind to each question. She finished her visit exhorting, “Pray! Pray a great deal and make sacrifices for sinners, for many souls go to hell for not having someone to pray and make sacrifices for them.” One of the children kept a small branch of the holmoak tree that Mary stood on during the visit. Lucia stayed with the sheep at the grazing site, but Jacinta and Francisco rushed off with the branch to tell their families about the latest apparition. On the way to their house, they passed Lucia’s home. When Jacinta exclaimed to Lucia’s mom that they had just seen Our Lady at a different grazing site, Mrs. Santos replied harshly, “My, what little liars you turned out to be! As if Our Lady would appear to you wherever you go!” Jacinta insisted, “But we did see her…see here, Our Lady had one foot on this twig and the other on that one.” Maria Rosa replied, “Give it to me. Let me see.” As Maria Rosa took the branch from Jacinta, her face changed from disapproval to wonder. She smelled the branch, “What does this smell of? It is not perfume, it’s not incense, nor perfumed soap; it’s not the smell of roses nor anything I know, but it is a good smell.” The rest of Lucia’s family gathered around to hold and smell the branch. Our Lady lovingly gave Lucia a small gift that day to quell her mother’s opposition to what Lucia was experiencing, a fragrant branch touched by her heavenly feet. (info. from one of Father John de Marchi's books on Fatima) Also, I remember reading a letter that Sister Lucia wrote to her mother when she was in a convent. In the letter she told her mother about Our Lady's request for the First Saturday devotions. She also urged her mother to tell other people about Our Lady's request for the First Saturday devotion. At this point, Maria Rosa Santos was probably an advocate and defender of the Fatima apparitions if her daughter was asking her to make the First Saturday devotions known to others.
Well said Frank. Even though I strongly feel the Rosary shouldn't be tampered with, it is not a dogmatic issue and people are free to do as they wish. It's good we can discuss these things civilly. One unrelated thought I just had is that I would encourage people that they pray the 15 actual mysteries when doing the 5 First Saturdays and not substitute the Luminous ones during that devotion. Our Lady specifically requested people to pray the 15 mysteries as a part of that devotion. Just a thought.
Don, I am a little surprised by your post because I know that you did believe the apparitions of Our Lady of Fatima were from Heaven and you even went to see a statue of Our Lady of Fatima for the 100th anniversary of the apparitions which was traveling around the USA. With that said, I realize that no one is required to believe in any apparition of the Blessed Mother approved or not. I do hope that you will answer my following question especially because you suggested that we take a step back from these events, etc., do you believe that only God has the power over life or death, specifically a natural death? The reason that I ask is because we all know that Our Lady of Fatima told the seers that Jacinta and Francisco were not going to live long and they both, in fact, died very young of natural causes. For me, this is a huge indicator that the apparitions of Our Lady of Fatima are truly from Heaven. I also see that other members have already addressed various points about your post already. I am not certain that Praetorian pointed out the correct Fatima prayer in his post and I do believe that you are referring to the Fatima prayer which I posted - "O my Jesus, forgive us our sins, save us from the fires of hell, and lead all souls to Heaven, especially those in most need of Your Mercy". I think that Heavenly Hosts specified this prayer. Can you please confirm if this is the prayer that you are referring to? I also wanted to add that if this is the Fatima prayer that you are referring to, I don't believe that you have interpreted it correctly. Asking Jesus to "lead all souls to Heaven" does not guarantee that all souls will go to Heaven or that those souls who will go to heaven will not repent or possibly spend some time in Purgatory first.
Beautiful and poignant meditations Dolours! Yes the world and it seems [parts of the church even Bishops and priests] are attacking the seven sacraments today. Just 50 years ago it would have been unheard of for a professed Catholic to question the sacraments but we have all witnessed with horror this very thing! The Luminous mysteries may have been prophetically given by heaven to our dear Holy Father JPII for these very times in the church today! To be used as a weapon against the modern heresies which are trying to destroy the seven sacraments.
The original prayer that Our Lady gave the children of Fatima went like this: " O my Jesus, forgive us. Save us from the fires of Hell. Lead all souls to Heaven, especially those in most need." The authorities in the Church, instead of simply approving her original prayer, examined it and decided to alter it first. So I say the actual prayer that Our Lady dictated because I cannot believe the arrogance of these Churchmen, thinking they could or even should edit and add to the Words of Our Lady, when she herself is the Queen of Heaven and had dictated the words. The Fatima prayers are so beautiful, profound and yet simple.
I love the Luminous mysteries of the holy rosary. They seem to apply to our time of need. First Mystery: I meditate on the Divine gift of baptism and pray for all those who are staying faithful to their baptismal promises. Secondly, I pray for those who have fallen away from their baptisimal promises and thirdly, I pray for all those also who through no fault of their own have not known about Christ or this gift of entering into the life with Him. Second Mystery: Nothing us more attacked today then marriage. So I pray for all those in the sacrament of marriage that they fulfill their promises to remain faithful to their spouse and be open to the precious gift of children. I pray for all those who attack this sacrament with all the sexual sins: abortion, contraception, fornication, sterilization, masturbation, co-habitation, pornography, sodomy in today's culture. In the third mysyery, I pray for his kingdom on earth to come, where his will shall be done as it is in heaven. The kingdom of the Divine Will. The fulfillment if the Lord's prayer. The fourth mystery I focus on the glorious return of Jesus as he was shown in the transfiguration, which will coincide with the Triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary and the era of peace. The 5th mystery caps off the the return of Jesus in his Eucharistic Reign, which I hope I will be here to worship him in his glorious presence in a whole new manifestation. This is why I love these mysteries that Saint John Paul understood so well and we were gifted with in these end times as we know it to be.
I stopped praying the Luminous mysterious a few years ago. (Also want to make a note that the total number of Hail Marys in the original rosary is 153). http://www.holymary.info/153hailmarys.html
I pray it this way too. Beautiful, Fatima,I believe these mysteries are a great gift for our time to fight the heresies of our age. I always start off by renewing my children and my baptismal vows with the apostle's creed at the beginning. When we pray, we pray in Jesus- in the Holy Name of Jesus, in His Holy Will for His Holy Will to be done. Jesus did not not come into the world to condemn us, but to save us according to Our Father's Will. Our Father does love each and every soul that He created in His great love and does not will that any be lost, but wills that all be saved. We are made in His Image, with our own free will and unfortunately so many reject God, but God still wants all saved and we are to pray as He wills to save all souls from the fires of Hell, from eternal damnation.
You're right about the number of Hail Mary's SG. Thanks. I'll go back and change it. I had a brain malfunction I guess
Lumena, can you cite a source for this? I am looking it up and can't find anything. I hadn't heard the Church changed the prayer and I don't see the small change they made as important. I wonder why they did.
I've come to the discussion late. There is nothing new I can add. I do regularly pray the Luminous Mysteries. As with the other 15, I often attach specific intentions to each mystery, though circumstances cause me to change intentions now and then. May our differences of opinion ultimately indicate a commitment to prayer, our love for Our Lady, and the incorporation of the Gospel into our daily lives! Luke 1:28 And the angel being come in, said unto her: Hail, full of grace, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women... 41 And it came to pass, that when Elizabeth heard the salutation of Mary, the infant leaped in her womb. And Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Ghost: 42 And she cried out with a loud voice, and said: Blessed art thou among women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb.
Yes. Just this morning at Adoration I got the thought to look up the account in John's gospel. The fish they took in were 153. Talk about foreshadowing the Rosary!!!
