The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    It is a great series. I have not heard a single talk given by Fr Ripperger that I have not learned something that has helped me. Some of the audio can be a bit daunting due to poor quality but they are worth listening to regardless.
     
  2. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    Neither of my daughters have attended Catholic schools and to be honest from what I hear and read is taught at them I think they are far better off at the secular brainwashing boot camps where they have to learn to combat the world's lies with truth right out of the gate.
    I was just speaking to my youngest daughter about this very thing in fact on our way home from Mass. Her friends have all been raised by the TV and broken families. They think aborting unwanted children is the answer to everything. She speaks the truth to them and is very courageous. I am so proud of her. Even at her age she is making a difference and although they may not agree with her the things she says to them will make them think about what is right.

    What more can a father want.
     
  3. AED

    AED Powers

    Agree completly.
     
    DivineMercy likes this.
  4. Dolours

    Dolours Guest

    Your daughter is learning the faith at home. Sadly, many aren't. Fr. Stravinskas seems to believe that there has been an improvement in Catholic schools. It must be very difficult for good Catholic teachers in Catholic schools where many if not most of the children come from homes where the parents don't believe or don't practice the faith. I'm thinking of situations where the teachers do their best to teach the faith and the children are told by their parents to disregard what teacher tells them. Hard for the teachers and hard for parents (and their children) trying to raise their children in the faith. Sorting out the problems in Catholic education would need a synod of its own but best to wait for a Pope who doesn't promote the likes of Fr. James Martin.
     
  5. Mario

    Mario Powers

    The situations are similar between CCD programs and Catholic schools. If the parents aren't living out the Faith and setting a good example for the children, and if the parents think they are being good Catholics by simply sending their children to Parochial schools, the pagan culture in which we live will most often win the day. As Fr. John Hardon would say, "Only heroic Catholic families will survive in such a climate!" So when a well-formed Catholic teacher goes to bat for the kids, lukewarm parents often negate the teacher's effectiveness.

    Praise God when the teachers plant seeds that blossom later! May such teachers receive their heavenly reward!:)

    Safe Under Mary's Mantle!
     
    DivineMercy, Dolours, AED and 3 others like this.
  6. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    I'm an imperfect person, too, Agnes Rose. Frankly, I find perfect people to be rather thin on the ground!
     
    Frank Markus, Don_D, AED and 4 others like this.
  7. Another day; another crazy read:

    Steve Bannon Declares War on Pope with Academy for Western Culture in Pontiff's Backyard

    Like something out of a Bond villain's backstory, Steve Bannon has won a bid to take over an Italian monastery in the mountains of Italy built by Pope Innocent III in 1204. He plans to turn it into an academy to defend Christendom and Western culture. The sprawling castle encompasses several buildings, with hundreds of rooms, a guest house built into a rock, and a library with 36,000 volumes. Nicholas Farrell of the Spectator visited it and came away feeling he had been in a storybook. "t made me think of Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry from the Harry Potter books," he wrote. YouTube tours of the place confirm that description, down to an apothecary complete with tinctures of mandrake. One almost expects to see Professor Flitwick dashing through the halls levitating feathers.

    Bannon, a Catholic, has been openly vocal about his disappointment in Pope Francis. Bannon is quoted in the Spectator giving the pope some direct advice:

    His greatest failings outside the spiritual and theological are siding with the globalist elites against the citizens of the nations of the world. Memo to the Pope — if you want to cultivate a media image of working man’s champion, great; but you then actually have to stand up for the little guy, and not with the rich and powerful who drive the UN and the EU in favor of their own internationalist agendas at the little guy’s expense. His attempts to demonize the populist movement in Europe and the United States are beneath contempt.

    It is strange to see the pope always siding with big governments lately — as if the rest of us don't rate. Third World invaders, spurred on by globalist agendas, get his attention, but our children — who will be on the same roads as undocumented and often drunk drivers or who may get shot while walking on American soil like Kate Steinle — don't get his compassion or concern. It's always someone else's children he wants to protect at the expense of ours. Pope Francis even stated openly that our security is not as important as the "migrant" invaders' "dignity." I wonder if that comforts the parents who lost their children to illegal drunk drivers or the cartel violence pouring in over the border.

    These types of actions, which have led to the greatest church in Western civilization being overtaken by globalist and corporatist agendas, is too big a pill for Bannon to swallow. It appears he's setting up shop in the pope's backyard to try and rectify the problem. Since being turned out of American politics, Bannon has set his sights on helping populist movements in Europe win elections. To that end, he is busy working to open an institute of learning to defend the West and our culture that will be able to take 250 to 300 students at a time.

    https://pjmedia.com/faith/bannon-de...ol-for-western-values-housed-in-roman-castle/

     
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  8. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    AR, You're welcome. I feel the same way that you do. I also think that you should read the following article which Dolours posted along with the comments many of which discuss Cd. Cupich https://www.catholicworldreport.com...e-for-handling-the-other-sexual-abuse-crisis/ .

    ***

    Women say church leaders must listen to survivors before Vatican abuse summit
    By CNS | November 30, 2018 | https://www.catholicregister.org/ho...sten-to-survivors-before-vatican-abuse-summit

    ROME – Three female survivors of sexual abuse by priests called on church leaders preparing for a February summit at the Vatican to listen to the voices of victims and to end a "culture of cover-up" that has dragged on for decades.

    The women, from the United States, Peru and Germany, spoke of their experiences of sexual, psychological and spiritual abuse during a Rome seminar, "Overcoming Silence: Women's Voices in the Abuse Crisis." All three survivors urged victims of abuse to "go to the police," adding that they believed internal investigations by the church have consistently failed to address the problem since the first cases were reported by journalists in the 1980s.

    One of the speakers was Doris Wagner, a German former nun who joined The Spiritual Family The Work community when she was 19. She explained how she was taught to obey her superiors unquestioningly and to cut off contacts with family and friends outside the mixed-gender community. She said that when the superior of the house came into her room and raped her one night in 2008, she felt confused and powerless to resist him. She added that she did not tell anyone about the assault because she feared the community would "blame me."

    Wagner left the congregation in 2011 and published a book about her ordeal of being "controlled, manipulated (and) sexually abused." She said she decided to speak out because, for many years, she believed she was "the only nun ever to have been raped in the church" and she wanted to prevent other women from suffering similar experiences. The Vatican conducted an apostolic visitation of the community from 2013 to 2014, which called for a revision of its constitutions and the implementation its recommendations.

    Pope Francis has convened a summit on sex abuse in the Vatican Feb. 21-24. All 10 members of the Union of International Superiors General leadership -- representing 500,000 women religious worldwide -- will be attending the summit, which will bring together heads of bishops' conferences from across the globe to discuss the church's response to the abuse crisis. Survivors will not be at the meeting, but will be part of the preparatory work and be present at a penitential liturgy, said Archbishop Charles J. Scicluna of Malta, a member of the organizing committee for the meeting.

    All three women who shared their stories at the Nov. 27 event said the February summit in the Vatican would be ineffective unless "victim-centered listening" was at the heart of the bishops' discussions...​


    I believe that Voices of Faith which sponsored the Rome seminar, "Overcoming Silence: Women's Voices in the Abuse Crisis." this past November 27th may be advocating for women priests which I am not in agreement with but I hope that their voices are heard in respect to the sexual abuse victims. Since we have been discussing what occurred to James Grein, I feel that Doris Wagner's testimony contained in the following video is also worth listening to.


    ***

    The following is an unrelated story which I came across but it still may be of interest to many here,

    upload_2018-12-9_10-20-54.png

    Pope Francis, President Abbas hope to restart peace process between Israel, Palestine
    By CNS | December 3, 2018 | https://www.catholicregister.org/ho...estart-peace-process-between-israel-palestine

    VATICAN – Pope Francis and Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas renewed their commitment to peace in the Holy Land and a two-state solution to resolve the conflict between Israel and Palestine, the Vatican said.

    The Pope welcomed President Abbas to the Vatican Dec. 3 and the two spoke privately for 20 minutes.

    In a statement released after their meeting, the Vatican said the two leaders focused on "efforts to reactivate the peace process between Israelis and Palestinians, and to reach a two-state solution, hoping for a renewed commitment on the part of the international community to meet the legitimate aspirations of both peoples."

    Pope Francis and Abbas also discussed the status of Jerusalem and underlined "the importance of recognizing and preserving its identity and the universal value of the holy city for the three Abrahamic religions."

    ...

    "I am happy about this meeting," Abbas replied. "We are counting on you."​
     
    Agnes rose likes this.
  9. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    1). I'd be careful of red herrings at this moment. While priests as a class are no different than any other body of men in that a small minority of the heterosexuals among them have been known to abuse females, it must not be allowed to distract from the reality that the overwhelming majority of abuse cases are of a homosexual nature, underlined by the strong recent emphasis by Pope Francis that homosexuality has no place in the priesthood. Cynics have suggested that Pope Francis has merely realised that the continuance of homosexuals within the priesthood will bankrupt the Church-there is some truth in that. Were that to be his motivation, it would imply doing the right thing for the wrong reasons, but the right thing would still be done.

    2). Pope Francis is being too political with Abbas. This will simply enrage Israel. Also, I think that the Mohammedan claim to be an Abrahamic religion is a fraudulent one.

    Abraham and Sarah were of a venerable age when they begat Isaac, but there was nothing dishonourable about this fine example of marital loyalty and hope. In this age of abuse, Mohammed provides a shocking counter-example with his taking to bed a nine-year-old. That religion has no blessing from the God of Abraham, much though they might wish their moon-god (note the crescent symbol) would appear to be bestowed it.
     
  10. Carol55

    Carol55 Ave Maria

    DeGaulle, I understand what you have stated about red herrings but I think that the February synod should easily be able to address all sexual abuse of adults by clergy. If most businesses in the USA can address this and they absolutely have procedures in place for doing so, the Church should absolutely be able to form procedures for doing so also.

    The article that Dolours posted the other day is the best one that I have seen which explains why these cases of sexual abuse committed by clergy on adults have been able to fester the way that they have. I would love to see Father Gerald Murray who is a canon lawyer discuss that article on the next World Over, I think that could be very helpful. ( https://www.catholicworldreport.com...e-for-handling-the-other-sexual-abuse-crisis/ )

    Regardless of the pope or any clergy in the Church reaffirming that homosexual acts are sins, we can almost be certain that there will be clergy in the Church who will commit these acts in the future and the Church needs a way to move forward when these acts occur and when any act of sexual abuse occurs. Blaming the victim and moving the clergy around or leaving them in place is absolutely not acceptable. I am certain that there are situations in which clergy have been falsely accused and cases in which sexual acts are consensual by the adults involved but there seems to be no clear way to handle claims of clerical abuse involving an adult other than to go to civil authorities.

    I am not sure what Pope Francis' motivation is in regard to his recent statements from the interview he gave on August 9th regarding homosexuality in the Church but I think that he has continued to state a lot of the same things in regard to seminarians who demonstrate homosexual tendencies and that is that they should not be admitted into a seminary. In the following article, the pope explains his "Who am I to judge" comment https://www.ncronline.org/news/vatican/francis-explains-who-am-i-judge .

    I also agree with you about Pope Francis and Abbas, that the pope is being too political with him. In addition, Abbas' remark to the pope that "we are counting on you" gave me the creeps and I pray that the pope answers to God first and foremost.

    ***

    I just noticed the following article from Emmett O'Regan, Our Lady of Knock, Jacob's Ladder and the Short Time of Satan . I think that it is very interesting as he discusses the sexual abuse crisis in the Church and prophecy.

    He briefly mentions St. Bosco's 200 days prophecy in this article and also in the comments. I have been posting about St. Bosco's prophecies a little bit since last year when Father Richard Heilman brought the blue moon prophecy to our attention. These are two separate prophecies but I have continued to wonder if the blue moon prophecy which may have occurred last March may be pointing to the 200 day prophecy and if so, what this latter prophecy might mean. Since I heard about Pope Francis' interview which he gave on August 9th I have been wondering if this could be the beginning of the 200 days procession back to Rome. I am not certain of anything but I found it interesting that 200 days from this interview will be the first day after the February synod has ended.

    ***

    We always seem to discuss the truly hot topics on MOG.;)


    Edited to add:
    My "truly hot topics" comment was heads up to you Agnes Rose. I keep thinking this also, "Who is running the show?" and every once and awhile Cardinal Mueller will make a comment which confirms that the pope is trusting some extremely iffy clergymen. I really would like to know who was responsible behind the whole "synodality" thing that was entered into the final document of the Youth Synod, very suspiciously I might add. Cardinal Burke recently questioned what does "synodality" mean exactly. I suppose someone knows but whom?

    I also found this video from Father Mark Goring from this past Saturday,



    PS- I forgot to mention that Emmett explains that, "the fact that this accusation[Vigano's] against Pope Francis was timed to directly coincide with his visit to the shrine of Our Lady of Knock appears to be of major prophetic importance concerning the end of the period of Satan's greater foreseen in the vision of Pope Leo XIII." Emmett is far more learned than I am about these things but I did remember how the vision at Knock was not accompanied by any verbal commuication. Silence comes to my mind when I think of Our Lady of Knock and silence has been a theme in one way or another ever since Archbishop Vigano leveled his accusations.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2018
  11. Praetorian

    Praetorian Powers

    Yes, Islam is a religion with Abrahamic origins, but it is not an Abrahamic religion. In the same way that devil worship originates from the same theology as Christianity, but is not Christian. If one studies the origin and current state of Islam one realizes that their god is not the same being as our God. There are many, many differences that prove this.
     
  12. Agnes rose

    Agnes rose Archangels

     
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  13. djmoforegon

    djmoforegon Powers

    We've been talking about having the courage to address the globalist agenda, apostasy, and such when we encounter it, especially when it is pushed upon us within our liturgies.

    I had the unexpected opportunity this last weekend when our Bishop, not an Oregon Bishop, gave a very disturbing homily that used all of the catch phrases such as "infants torn from their mothers' arms, fake news, the masses fleeing persecution along the southern border, ...etc". One gentleman behind me grunted in disgust and left the Mass abruptly, with our kind, gentle pastor staring in amazement and confusion.

    I have to tell you all about my life-long reverence for the priesthood. Someone else wrote this about priests but it captures everything I feel innately about the singular honor due priests.

    "When the priest prays the prayers of the Church, Christ, who is true to His word, makes Himself present on the Altar. It is a humble privilege: the gift of evoking the Eternal. St. Francis of Assisi illustrated this amazing honor when he said, 'If I saw an Angel and a priest, I would bend my knee first to the priest and then to the Angel'. Why? Because of the work of Christ in that lowly priest. Angels cannot call God down on an Altar. However, a priest, who is participating in the very priesthood of Christ, makes God present for us. It is not something that he possesses by his hard work or inherent virtues: it is a gift of grace. it is ALL the work of Christ."

    I also am not a confrontational person but I felt compelled to say something to this Bishop who had recently returned from the Synod in Rome. He firmly touts the new Vatican talking points about climate change, immigration, and all things liberal. He has been included in one or more of Michael Voris's videos on Bishops who have made decisions that were contrary to our faith.

    I shook the Bishop's hand and told him that he had just conducted a political rally on the holy altar of God with a thinly veiled political agenda that left me hungry for the real Word of God. He air-poked me and denied it and I reiterated that he had done just that. The Bishop started to follow me out of the church but other parishoners approached him and engaged him in conversation. My husband and I left the church watching the rear-view mirror to see if he might chase me down (I'm only sort of kidding :)).

    This was not an earthshaking clash that probably did nothing to change his preaching at all of the other Sunday Masses but only God knows how contrary to my nature it was.
     
  14. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    Good on you.

    Your approach to the Bishop was perfect. I can only think the Holy Spirit inspired you to say those words. Perfect!:)
     
  15. HeavenlyHosts

    HeavenlyHosts Powers

    I agree with Garabandal: just perfect!
    Good job.
     
    Frank Markus likes this.
  16. AED

    AED Powers

    Very powerful respectful but straight to the bulls eye. He needed to hear this for his own soul's sake. Good on you DJm. It could not have been easy.. to take that step of courage.
     
    Frank Markus likes this.
  17. Mary's child

    Mary's child Powers

    Ditto, ditto and what a great comeback. (y)
     
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  18. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    Thank you for having the courage to speak to the Bishop DJM and not pull any punches. Our bishops truly need our prayers each and every day.
     
    Frank Markus likes this.
  19. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    The Chinese persecution of unapproved worshipers of Jesus continues. I should probably start a new thread for this topic...

    https://www.scmp.com/news/china/politics/article/2177263/100-snatched-china-church-raids-overnight

    100 Christians snatched in overnight raids on underground Chinese church
    • Worshippers were taken from their homes and off the streets in coordinated crackdown across Chengdu in Sichuan province
    • A pastor was among those arrested
    PUBLISHED : Monday, 10 December, 2018, 5:15pm
    UPDATED : Tuesday, 11 December, 2018, 2:48am
    Comments: 68

    [​IMG]
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    Mimi Lau

    mimi.lau@scmp.com
    https://twitter.com/gzmimi
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    9 Dec 2018
    About 100 worshippers at an unofficial church in southwestern China were snatched from their homes or from the streets in coordinated raids which began on Sunday evening.

    This Week in Asia
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    Chinese authorities targeted members of the Early Rain Covenant Church across various districts of Chengdu, the provincial capital of Sichuan, in what appeared to be an effort to close down one of the country’s most prominent Protestant house churches.

    Members’ personal accounts and cell group discussions on social media channels were blocked at around 9pm on Sunday while the church’s telephone line was also cut. The homes of the church’s leaders, including pastor Wang Yi, were among those raided.

    Zhang Guoqing, assistant deacon of the Early Rain Covenant Church, was among two church members who were released on Monday morning after his arrest by Chengdu police in the Sunday night raids.

    He is now being watched around the clock by “security personnel” in his home.

    [​IMG]

    Zhang said he headed to Wang’s home at around 7pm on Sunday after hearing about the raids but the pastor and his wife Jiang Rong were nowhere to be found.

    “His home was ransacked. It was a mess,” Zhang said.

    “The police said our church is an illegal organisation and we cannot attend any more gatherings from now on.”

    China bans one of Beijing’s biggest underground Protestant churches
    The Early Rain Covenant Church is one of China’s few unofficial house churches – Christian assemblies that operate without state sanction – and this is not the first time Wang and other members of the church have been detained.

    While most of China’s Protestant house churches operate underground to avoid attracting official attention and control, the Early Rain congregation openly practises its faith, posting sermons online and evangelising on the streets.

    Many house churches have been closed this year in China’s harshest religious suppression in decades.

    Bob Fu of China Aid, a US-based Christian non-profit organisation, said the crackdown represented a major escalation of religious persecution in China.

    [​IMG]

    According to Fu, there were more than 10,000 cases of detention of Christians this year, compared with just over 3,000 cases for the whole of last year. In September, Beijing police closed the Zion Church, one of the largest Protestant churches in China with more than 1,500 regular church-goers.

    In February the Religious Affairs Regulation was amended to give grass-roots officials more power to act against churches and impose tougher penalties for “unauthorised religious gatherings”.

    Chinese Arabic school to close as areas with Muslim populations are urged to study the Xinjiang way
    In Henan and Zhejiang provinces, two of the hardest-hit areas in the religious clampdown, churches have been shut down or even demolished, and their members told to denounce their faith.

    The Early Rain church has about 500 followers but their weekly gatherings spread across 12 meeting points around Chengdu, attracting more than 800 church-goers on a weekly basis, according to the church’s elders. It also has about 100 seminary students and a primary school catering to about 40 children.

    [​IMG]

    The South China Morning Post has learned that a number of elders are still in hiding while many church members were tracked down by police overnight asking them to sign a letter pledging they would not attend further gatherings.

    Chinese bishop ‘missing’ despite historic deal between Beijing and Vatican
    “This round of crackdown is unusual as it seems that the authorities want to close the church down for good. Our social media channel accounts such as WeChat were not closed in previous rounds and they have taken a large number of our members into custody this time. The scale was unprecedented,” said Li Yingqiang, one of the church elders.

    Despite the massive purge, Li said gatherings would continue.

    “Even if we are down to our last five, worship and gatherings will still go on because our faith is real,” Li said.

    “Persecution is a price worth paying for the Lord. We would rather live through it than to hide our faith and we hope more Chinese churches will speak up and stand with us.”
     
  20. Don_D

    Don_D ¡Viva Cristo Rey!

    https://www.greatfallstribune.com/s...ar-krauth-child-pornography-crime/2264844002/

    Ex-Lourdes priest to be formally charged with receipt of child porn
    Traci Rosenbaum, Great Falls Tribune Published 9:10 a.m. MT Dec. 10, 2018

    According to most recent CDC statistics, an estimated 1 in 4 children in America experience maltreatment at some point in their lives. Here is what to do if you suspect child abuse and how to report it. Wochit

    Lothar Konrad Krauth, a former priest at Our Lady of Lourdes Parish in Great Falls, will be formally charged with receipt of child pornography Tuesday in federal court.

    Krauth, 80, appeared on a criminal complaint before U.S. Magistrate Judge John T. Johnston on Nov. 9 and was released from custody pending an indictment after a hearing Nov. 14.

    The complaint alleged that Krauth's computer contained approximately 400 images of child pornography, including children engaging in sexual acts with both adults and other children.

    Some of the children depicted were as young as 2 or 3 years old, according to the complaint.

    The full indictment is currently sealed, but the redacted indictment states that police seized Krauth’s computer, nine external hard drives, six thumb drives, two digital cameras, 210 DVDs and CDs and 30 VCR tapes as part of the investigation.

    So far, no allegations of sexual abuse have been made against Krauth.

    If convicted, Krauth faces a mandatory minimum of 5 to 20 years in prison, a $250,000 fine and three years of supervised release.

    Reach Tribune Staff Writer Traci Rosenbaum at 406-791-1490. Follow her on Twitter @GFTrib_TRosenba.
     

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