Probably. Well I trust the Blessed Mother. She will bring the Reign of her Immaculate Heart but it is late. Very late. Makes me think of that line “we can do this the easy way or the hard way...” Clearly the Church chose the “hard” way. Sigh. (Very disappointed in Bishop Barron!)
AED, the only time I get to participate in a Latin Mass is when it comes to EWTN. . I guess I should be very happy for Mother Angelica's endeavor to truly evangelise to the ends of the Earth.
AED, I don't know if you've listened to it, but Fr Ripperger has a talk on the 6 generations: The Lost Generation, The Greatest Generation, Baby Boomers, Gen X & Y, Gen Z. I highly suggest listening, because he very accurately describes what has been happening and how we got to where we are. Unfortunately, the Greatest Generation (ww2) are just as much to blame for the mess (not saying your particular parents were, the generation as a whole).
Thank you. Yes, we must continue to remind ourselves that Our Lady's Immaculate Heart will triumph. As the fella said, we can take that to the bank! A few (more than a few) words of caution here: 1. The Church has been under attack both from within and without since the beginning. There will be people, therefore, who will use this latest scandal as a weapon against the Church rather than an opportunity to cleanse and strengthen it. (I really should use the pronoun "her" when referring to the Bride of Christ, but can be slipshod about that, so please forgive me). 2. This situation shouldn't be used in a spirit of vengeance against any individual or group. Vengeance is reserved for God alone. Justice without mercy is vengeance and, in my opinion, a form of idolatry. We don't know whether some of the Bishops are bound by the seal of Confession. If they are, they may well have felt themselves obliged not to openly oppose Cardinal McCarrick and others, although they wouldn't have been obliged to support him. The seal of Confession is inviolable and it is in everybody's interests that it be protected. 3. We must be prepared for the possibility that Bishops we favour will be among the guilty and Bishops we suspect will be be shown to have been completely innocent. There's also no guarantee that whatever means of sorting it out are used, all the guilty will be discovered and punished and all the innocent will be cleared. 4. We must be careful that scandals like this (this time it's in America, but the problem appears to be universal) are not used to advance agendas of either ultra traditionalists or modernists. The Church is not a political party. This type of scandal is not peculiar to either conservatives or liberals. It shouldn't be used to bolster the case for the TLM to be favoured over the NO, to ban altar girls, EMHC, etc. Nor should it be used to advance the cause of women's ordination, married priests, etc. 5. Most of all, it shouldn't be used to make a case for any kind of involvement by the laity in selecting candidates for the Episcopacy. There is such a lobby and I think it would be disastrous because it would lead to all sorts of populism and manipulation, not least of it politically driven. I think that in Germany or other European countries, there may be some involvement by or consultation with laity when proposing candidates for the episcopacy and I can't think of a single European country where all Bishops are exemplary. The decision on who should be promoted Bishop should be the Pope's. I think that part of the problem now may have arisen because there is some kind of tradition that Bishops' Conferences propose two or three names and the Pope chooses one of them. There was a problem with the Germans because candidates they proposed were being declined by the Vatican on grounds that they were weak on Doctrine (Cardinal Muller being German would have had an insight into the situation in Germany). I think that may have been one of the reasons the Germans made noises about not being subject to Rome. There also appears to have been a tradition whereby being Bishop of a particular diocese was almost a guarantee of promotion to Cardinal. As far as I can tell, the last two Popes went along with that but I'm not sure whether Pope Francis does in every case. 6. One lady has proposed that a group of laity be appointed in each diocese to conduct a thorough investigation. That seems good on the face of it except what about dioceses with dodgy Bishops? She suggested people volunteering for selection but how can that be protected from manipulation by special interest lobbies, especially in dodgy dioceses? We need to pray a lot. Those of you in the States should keep an eye out for any call for volunteers from the laity and put your names forward.
My mother always carries her Pieta prayer book wherever she goes and whenever a priest is criticized I think about one page in it. CRITICISM OF PRIESTS Our Lord's revelations to Mutter Vogel "One should NEVER attack a priest, even when he's in error, rather one should pray and do penance that I'll grant him My grace again. He alone fully represents Me, even when he doesn't live after My example!" (page 29, Mutter Vogel's Worldwide Love, St. Grignion Publishing House, Altoting, South Germany (29. 6. 1929)). When a Priest falls we should extend him a helping hand THROUGH PRAYER AND NOT THROUGH ATTACKS! "I myself will be his judge, NO ONE BUT I!" "Whoever voices judgment over a priest has voiced it over Me; child, never let a Priest be attacked, take up his defense." (Feast of Christ the King 1937) "Child, Never judge your confessor, rather pray much for him and offer every Thursday, through the hands of My blessed Mother, Holy Communion (for Him) (18.6. 1939)&nsp; "Never again accept an out-of-the-way word about a Priest, and speak no unkind word (about them) EVEN IF IT WERE TRUE! Every Priest is My Vicar and My heart will be sickened and insulted because of it! If you hear a judgment (against a Priest) pray a Hail Mary." (28. 6. 1939) "If you see a Priest who celebrates the Holy Mass unworthily then say nothing about him, rather tell it to Me alone! I stand beside him on the altar!" "Oh pray much for My priests, that they'll love purity above all, that they'll celebrate the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass with pure hands and heart. Certainly the Holy Sacrifice is one and the same even when it is celebrated by an unworthy priest, but the graces called down upon the people is not the same!" (28. 2. 1938) Mary. Queen of the Clergy, pray for them" Perhaps we should all start praying for our priests and bishops a lot more. I think Our Lord will be more harsh with us that know better. Let us all try and not cast stones at our priests, but when the urge or conversation comes up, let us all take up their defense as mentioned in the Pieta prayer book.
Yes I have listened to it and it made a lot of sense. A lot of sense! I grew up with kids whose parents were like what Fr Ripperger describes. And their Catholicism was cultural. It was hard for me to see how quickly they went social gospel and then went AWOL. We all went to Catholic school. We had Catholic families. But they shed it like an old skin. They think I am antiquated because I take it so seriously. I take no credit. It is grace. God’s generous gift. There but for the grace of God go I....
AED, my parents were lapsed Eastern Orthodox I am glad they don’t have to witness this as well I do understand what Fr R was saying in his video, and he speaks a lot of truth But it is still in generalities ,of necessity . Fr .R is not as old as we are , lol We have lived this God put us here right now in His plan The fact remains that there is apostasy in the Church I think especially my parents would be horrified at the sodomites And I hope I don’t incur the wrath of DM when I say that Fr R is not the whole answer to every question
This has been discussed before on this forum. There are some problems with the book. https://www.aquinasandmore.com/blog/why-we-dont-carry-the-pieta-prayer-book/ http://www.patheos.com/blogs/scottericalt/are-catholics-forbidden-to-criticize-priests/
I normally agree with much of what you post Dolours, at least in spirit, if not in every word, but I needed to respond to point number 4 on your list here. I am not sure if it was your intent, but reading what you wrote it seemed to paint Traditional Catholicism and Modernism as merely two side of the coin. Two extremes as it were. If someone is an ultra traditional Catholic they are in the right. If someone is an ultra Modernist they are a heretic. They are not two extremes as is the case in a political world view. Traditional Catholicism is practicing the faith as it always was practiced. Modernism is creating some new religion. That is of course not to say that traditional Catholics are always right about everything...but they are right about most things. I think sometimes the delivery in the form of some extreme online bloggers is often too laden with invective, but Tradition in itself is where the great Saints have told us to flee to in times when the Church is overcome with novelties like the ones we are experiencing now.
I know what you mean, Praetorian, and it did occur to me that I might be giving the wrong impression when I was typing that paragraph. My fear is that when people are angry they can be easily manipulated and sidetracked. Traditional Catholics don't want to turn the Church into a democracy, but a lot of modernists do. What I'm really trying to warn against is tradition minded Catholics letting themselves be used to further the aims of those whose real motive is to democratise the Church. Devout liturgy and sound catechesis will come with devout Bishops and priests. The focus of these investigations should be to clean up the seminaries, clearing out any Bishops or superiors who would turn them into a Catholic homosexual version of Hefner's bunny club. The seminaries need to be places where young men with real vocations to serve God in the priesthood can receive proper guidance and formation. Do you know whether there will be any investigation of monasteries or seminaries run by religious orders?
I thought it might be the case that is what happened. I am just very sensitive to how people may take things in writing so I wanted to make sure the correct message was conveyed. Many thanks
A heartbreaking true account of what happened to a good priest who persisted in speaking out: "Father James Haley, Bishop Loverde and the Boy's Club - a story retold March 16, 2015. Please pray for Father Haley. I've been in touch with someone that knows him. His faith has been shaken and he needs to know that Catholics care what happened to him and are praying for him! A recent post on the persecution of priests lead to a comment about Father James Haley, formerly of the Diocese of Arlington. I had not heard of this case prior until now. I have heard today from someone who knows Father Haley; he is still "suspended" and has been shaken by this ordeal. He is living in a trailer near a nursing home where his elderly father resides. He picks up odd jobs where he can to support himself. " ................................... "Although Father Haley has been silenced, his story is told in his deposition testimony. Here we learn that James Raymond Haley was ordained a Roman Catholic priest in 1987 at St. Thomas More Church in Arlington, Virginia. "Homosexuality within the priesthood is something that I did not know about when I was ordained," the forty-six year old Father Haley testified, "but from my very first assignment at Saint Mark's (in Vienna, Virginia) became more and more aware of." Haley "started to see associations between those who were exhibiting homosexual behaviors and friendships." Homosexual priests supported each other, and adopted "a defensive attitude towards anyone who might threaten them." 5. Deposition Testimony, p. 139 Haley was also troubled by what he heard about the homosexual priest network in the confessional, but the list of priests he could confide in was getting shorter. One of his seminary classmates was also a priest in the Arlington diocese. He told Haley about entering the rectory at St. Mary's and finding his pastor having anal intercourse with the maintenance man, and the time he visited another parish where the priest had an eighteen year relationship with another homosexual man. Haley's former classmate complained to the diocese, became depressed when they did nothing, and left the priesthood. 6. Deposition, p. 146. Determined not to leave the priesthood, Haley sought out Bishop John R. Keating, then bishop of the Arlington diocese. Over the course of many meetings Haley recounted to Keating "a whole list and litany" of homosexual activity in the diocesan clergy. Like the "extraordinarily gay-looking masseuse" who regularly came to the rectory to give closed door massages to Haley's pastor. Or the event that occurred a week after Haley began his first parish assignment. There was a knock on the back door. A man asked for Haley's associate, calling him by his first name. Haley knocked on the pastor's door. The priest, expecting his friend, surprised Haley by answering the door naked. Haley told him a man was downstairs, and the priest said, "Send him up." 7. Deposition, pp. 141-142. Bishop Keating confirmed Haley's alarm over the homosexual network in the Church. According to Keating the problem went higher. "He indicated a problem existed even among the bishops and cardinals, naming some that surprised me," Haley testified. 8. Deposition, p. 140. Although he was sympathetic, in the end Keating was no help. According to Haley, Keating said "he could not do anything about homosexual priests or their activities." 9. Ibid Haley was stunned to learn that "A bishop would knowingly ordain a homosexual man…I thought that they would want to know that a man or a seminarian or a priest was homosexual. And they couldn't care less, so I started to feel like the outsider, like maybe I was the unique guy. That it wasn't the gay men that were unique, it was the straight men that were unique." 10. Deposition, p. 144. Adding to his discomfort was what he was hearing in the confessional: "I was becoming aware of some significant sexual problems among our priests, which I could not say to anybody." In 1995 Haley began seeing a psychologist, "to help me deal with the emotional burden of knowing what I did not want to know about my fellow priests through confession." 11. Deposition, p. 118." It's a long post, but worth reading. Read the rest at: http://voxcantor.blogspot.com/2015/03/father-james-haley-bishop-loverde-and.html
I have a friend in a monastery, 3 years away from Ordination over seas. He has been very troubled by much of this and what he sees around him. His superior keeps telling him to leave it alone. Yes, I suspect he feels rather isolated himself. I have copied a couple of posts, encouraging him that he is not alone. Yup, some serious purifying of the Church and seminaries/monasteries is necessary!
There's a lady championing the cause of the Fr. Haley referred to on the website linked in SgCatholic's post above. Evidently, somebody wrote a book based on one of the cases Fr. Haley tried to have dealt with by his Bishop. Although the author of the book used fictitious names, Fr. Haley's friend appears to have had no trouble recognising the characters. https://lesfemmes-thetruth.blogspot.com/2013/10/where-are-they-now-walk-in-twilight.html Leaving aside Fr. Haley being laicised, how can a Catholic priest be a character witness in a custody hearing and testifying on behalf of a former priest who, while still a priest had an affair with a married parishioner and went on to marry her after she divorced her husband? Tell your friend to hang in there because we need good priests.
Touche, he was also married - to the Church. Priests also wear wedding rings as do Sisters. There's a reason for that.
