Unlike many on the forum, I have had nothing but social justice liberal pastors for the past 30 years. Nearly every homily has a social justice theme. Doctrines are rigid, legalistic and all the other words Pope Francis has used to describe the orthodox faithful. I clearly see the good and the bad of illegal immigration. I normally spend my lunch break from work at the Church. I never see our priests or deacon their in prayer or few others for that matter. But, what I do see at times is Hispanics, from Central America, crawling slow on there knees from the back of church to the sanctuary in audible prayer often times crying in pain. I pray for their intentions, as I can't imagine what some of their concerns so heart felt are. The latest words by the pope will surely make our priest very happy and give fuel for his next homily, as he continues to promote his illegal immigration sanctuary church, while once in a blue moon, if ever, will he pray or give any comment to the pro-life cause.
Bishop Sheen gives a very good description of it—the anti church. Christ without the Cross. A human paradise. Or as St Paul prophesied about our times: a form of religion but denying its power.
It is the devilish idea of “the seamless garment” that undermined the fight against abortion by equalizing capital punishment with abortion. Big Lie mixed with truth. And the serpents hiss.
This is a perfectly lucid and valid point. Thanks for making it. Schism is a tendency that the scrupulous worry about more than its presence in Catholicism at the present time - and especially among active MOG members - actually warrants.
Except I never accused anyone on this forum of being schismatic I have in the past denounced sedevacantism
Schism is a very real and valid threat in this time and it almost entirely hits the "right" in the church. That's us. Anyone who thinks otherwise had better think again. I have seen lots of people go from "Hey I think Francis might not be Pope." to "Maybe none of the Popes since Vatican II are valid." It happened to one of my best friends the other night. A good Catholic. I corrected his error and I hope he is back in the Barque now. It is true there is a fine line when one approaches this sort of claptrap that one is still in union with the Pope, that line can easily be crossed. Free discussion is fine. Posting some of the things I have seen posted is dangerous to souls. It has been said that leading to someone's conversion is one of the greatest goods we can do in life. I wonder what aiding in someone abandoning the Church does to one's soul? Let's remember this isn't a private conversation. Many people may be reading these pages and forming their own opinions on what we post. That is what happened to me. And that ain't scruples talking. It's good old fashioned Catholicism.
Yes, I agree There are many people who read these posts unknown to us We need to be aware of the tone of our posts as well as the content I hope your friend regains his bearings
Thank you HH. I think he will be okay. He is just searching like all of us. Unfortunately he started wondering about Pope Francis' validity and wandered into some Sedevacantist websites where they were more than happy to "educate" him on what has happened in the Church in modern times. It is one thing to wonder privately in one's mind. It is another however to allow the propagation of errors. I know that line is fuzzy right now, so I advise to err on the side of caution. This forum is a very special place. A light in a very, very dark world. There are so few pinpoints of light left. Many are flickering. Let us remain steadfast. I have no doubt Our Lady intends something very special with those here. Let's make sure everyone stays in the Barque.
If it wasn't for those bothersome Conservatives! After 'no hell' report, Pope gives the devil his due ......In it, he referred to online hate in the Catholic media, which is predominately present on right-wing, conservative blogs and Twitter handles that often use strong language to criticise liberal Catholics and even the pope himself. "Even in Catholic media, limits can be overstepped, defamation and slander can become commonplace, and all ethical standards and respect for the good name of others can be abandoned," Francis said. "It is striking that at times, in claiming to uphold the other commandments, they completely ignore the eighth, which forbids bearing false witness or lying, and ruthlessly vilify others. Here we see how the unguarded tongue, set on fire by hell, sets all things ablaze," he said, paraphrasing a passage from the Bible. https://www.yahoo.com/news/no-hell-report-pope-gives-devil-due-161721208.html
That's an extraordinary quotation. At least it shows a little slip-an acknowledgement that it is the 'conservatives' who are actually upholding at least nine of the commandments. It also needs to be asked who is here bearing the false witness and doing the ruthless vilifying. We on this blog have been rightly scrupulous about motives and intentions and have tried our best to stick to the facts and the issues. Likewise in just about every responsible conservative outlet that I have come across, certainly nobody that has accused Pope Francis of being in league with the forces of the devil. We need only let the facts speak for themselves. Regarding the paragraphs about the topical issue of immigrants, it is worth reading Benedict's views on the First Temptation of Christ in "Jesus of Nazareth".
I know scripture especially in the Old Testament gives a very real emphasis on helping the , 'alien in an alien land ', with very great force here. I suspect in the Old Testament we had a different scenario. If folks did not get help they simply died. There is a similarity here to what is happening in Mediteranean Sea were if folks are not rescued they simply die. They drown. So Pope Francis is most certainly right about this. I think what we have to do, each of us is take the Gospel Message and apply it as best we can as individuals. I think as a gerneral point of view it would be better if folks can be helped at home, in their own countries. I certainly do not agree with Islamic emigration into Europe for a whole long list of reasons. I do not understand how anyone can simply say immigration is always right. It's true this is very doctrinaire statement. I also do not see how people take it from the Gospel that migration should always be right. This simply is not in the Gospel. I think the globalists like Soros use mass migration to suit their agenda.
Agree with what you have said. This is why immigration is a prudential call, not a right. Christians do have to be open to discern what those immigrating to another country for and what do they want once they get here? The issue is really how does a pope come to conclude one should have blind immigration, as if a country does not have a right to its sovereignty as Pope JPII acknowledged they did. It is absurd for a pope to equate immigration to abortion on the same moral equivalence.
This observation about the Commandments being inverted is VERY astute. I think we should continue to watch for further evidence of this. Not kosher!
Saint Thomas Aquinas was very clear that immigrants have onerous responsibilities, too. He believed that they ought to go several generations before being granted citizenship. I anticipate the Vatican now opening its borders to all and sundry. They ought to commence building a few mosques.
Yes, I think it is a mistake sometimes to have an , 'It's always right', or , 'always wrong' attitude to these things as the Great Moral Teacher St Thomas shows , the response must be nuanced on a case by case basis. The Holy Father's response reminds me of the time I was an eager young teenager with an answer for everything. Everything was either right or wrong, I had the great sweeping moral based answers to everything.. It also reminds me of what Winston Churchill said, 'Anyone under the age of twenty who is not a Liberal has no heart. Anyone over the age of 25 who is still a Liberal has no head'. I think there's a lot of truth in this. There is a whole lot of the wild eyed teen in the Pope , I think.
The Rules of the Road were lodged when Moses brought them down from the mountain. The Israelites were immigrants who had liberated themselves from Egypt. Indeed, they had been slaves. Yet, God did not make any pronouncements about the rights or wrongs of immigration in His Decalogue. Neither did Our Lord make any general extrapolations about immigration, apart from insisting that we treat any individual, whether native or foreigner, as our neighbour, as did the Good Samaritan. But the Good Samaritan, although he cleaned up the Jew's wounds and paid for his recuperation, didn't invite him to come and live in Samaria. These debates on how we deal with immigration in an era of rapid and cheap travel, present us with many challenges, but they are prudential debates, despite the fact that we are obliged to obey the Ten Commandments in our deriving of conclusions. There is no Commandment, not even the Golden Rule, that says we must love our neighbour more than ourselves. In other words, whatever laws on immigration that men draft will be their own laws, not Divine ones. In apparently attributing such man-made laws as having equal status to the Divine "Thou Shalt Not Murder", Pope Francis is uncomfortably close to the neoPelagianism, Promethean or otherwise, of which he has accused others.
