The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. padraig

    padraig Powers

    It is about more than this. Remove this corner stone and the entire building will collapse.

    Satan knows this.
     
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  2. LittleVoice

    LittleVoice WOE WOE WOE

    90% is wrong number. I should say 99,9% If I read again CIC 1917 $1067-1080. All conditions are investigated before wedding. And today the impotence (main reason for annulment) is very rare, because man wants only sex. Therefore almost all annulments are invalid.
    This forum is nest of selfpointed Scribes without knowledge of Law. And I who quote CIC, Bible, CCC am considered to be from Satan. I have no authority to call them as Jesus would, but may they be very careful. Also I know hunders of priests and bishops and I have news about annulments from them, therefore my informations are not my opinions. I have right to consider every annulment as the adultery.
    I abhor the behavior of people who support annulments here, because they support unwittingly adultery with 99,9% probability. If they are not pure and they dare to spread such abomination, they will be judged severely.

    And since pope knows whole situation better than me, and support it, who is he? According to me Antigod and no his servant, because God creates marriage without separation.
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2017
  3. smudger

    smudger Guest

    Why did Jesus say to S. Faustina he speaks through the confessor? What is the point of a spiritual director? Does the Holy Spirit guide them ? What has changed in more recent times is a deeper and more mature understanding of the various issues that may cause actual mortal sin to not be present. Take for example the suicide. Until recently, it was assumed anyone who did it was in hell because its a mortal sin, but of course the Church doesnt say that: "Grave psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering, or torture can diminish the responsibility of the one committing suicide.We should not despair of the eternal salvation of persons who have taken their own lives. By ways known to him alone, God can provide the opportunity for salutary repentance.CCC 2282-8) That is why Pope Francis is right in AL. As ive said plenty of times recently, sins of grave matter do no constitute on their own actual mortal sin. The teaching on suicide is a perfect example of where the teaching of JP II was as nuanced as Francis
     
  4. smudger

    smudger Guest

    Actually I think there has to be a firm purpose of amendment, but how to reach that in certain complex situations is the key factor. Pope Francis never suggests anyone can receive if they are happy to live in this situation without the acknowledgment that it does not conform to the teaching on indissolubility of marriage
     
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  5. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    You are juxtaposing two completely different issues. The Church has never categorically stated that any individual is in Hell, not even Judas. Obviously, as you said yourself, 'Only God judges the heart', and only He can know the state of mind of a suicide. However, adultery is no different a sin now than two thousand years ago and if somebody positively refuses to undertake a firm purpose of amendment, without evidence of 'psychological disturbances, anguish, or grave fear of hardship, suffering or torture', how can they justify receiving the Eucharist?

    Let's get real here. The people these changes are meant to support aren't undergoing excessive hardship. They just want to have sex. The 'sake of the children' argument is, in the context of the well-off West which is the main focus of these changes, an economic argument. One could use an economic argument to justify abortion and contraception. It still doesn't make these sins acceptable. Countless widows/widowers and abandoned spouses have reared their children successfully over the years. There may be hardship nowadays, but this is nothing compared to poorer times, yet these singles of by-gone times generally did not contemplate adultery.

    If the Church tolerates certain behaviour, one sure thing is that we will get more of it. Abandoned spouses will know that they'll have the Church's approval if they decide to go man-hunting or woman-hunting. The main motivation will be lust, let's not be naive, but they will easily deceive themselves they're doing it 'for the sake of the children', God help them. Additionally, people in this category will generally have limited options for another partner. The most likely option will be other married people. Anybody who believes people are too nice and too virtuous to behave like this is a fool. It has happened amongst the Protestants. Many more marriages are going to be wrecked by this 'mercy'. There will be no mercy for the abandoned partners who remain continent nor the children in all these situations.
     
  6. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Talking the talk isn't sufficient. One has to walk the walk. Such acknowledgements are meaningless if people wilfully continue to have sex. This is what is already happening on the ground. Rather than changing practice to fit these abominations, Pope Francis should be condemning the practice. Even if nobody listened, he would still have proclaimed the truth.
     
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  7. smudger

    smudger Guest

    Not 2 different issues at all. Both revolve around a sin of grave matter, and like any sin of that kind its gravity can be diminished. Its silly o suggest its all about sex, how about the first marriages that were never valid because of immaturity, but cannot be proved which C. Ratzinger suggested was a great possibility. The Church shouldnt be lax, but it should be just and truthful in all circumstances and that includes some 2nd marriages if certain factors are taken into consideration. How judgmental to say these people are not undergoing hardship!
     
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  8. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

    Adultery has always been mostly about sex.

    This isn't about hard cases. If it was, the issue would never have received the attention it has. This is all about normalising remarriage in order to make the Church compliant with the world. Controversial issues are always introduced as minimal by liberals, then broadened very quickly to normative practice. Hard cases are the Trojan Horse. Abortion is the classical example. In most jurisdictions abortion has been introduced for rape, incest and grave risk to the mother. We all know what happens then. Unfortunately, exponents of the slippery-slope argument generally only get the satisfaction of being able to say 'we told you so'. Hopefully, there will be Divine intervention to remedy this mess.
     
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  9. smudger

    smudger Guest

    Its received the attention it has because too many people think they know better than the Pope,and at the same time ignore the centuries old procedure of discerning moral culpability in confession -a point I showed a few days ago concerning contracepting couples in the time of Leo XIII
     
  10. MMM

    MMM Archangels

    And I tell you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades will not prevail against it.

    People can and will argue back and forth about the law, mercy, the pope, liberal, conservative, marriage, annulment...etc. but there still is only one true universal church that Jesus started and we are all blessed to be a part of it and His body. God's in control.

    Do you really think the antichrist pulled a fast one over on Jesus Christ and therefore His flock by putting a non catholic (sorry Padriad your words) as head of His church? Seriously? Jesus I trust in you! Jesus gave the keys to the kingdom to Francis so I don't question Him. Sure, things seem quite confusing, but my, my families and most people's salvation isn't linked to what the pope says or even does. If Jesus allows Francis to open the doors of mercy farther than what God is accepting He will stop him. God gave Francis the key to heaven and if He isn't happy He will take it away from him. And yes, even if you believe some crazy kind of Masonic/ Satanic conspiracy during the course of the last Papal Election do you still think God is no longer in control? Don't question the Pope, question God Himself. He put him there, and if you believe He didn't, implore God's grace to understand why He would allow it and what His plan is? Perhaps it is a test for all of us. Bring your fears, worries and lack of trust to the only One that can truly help clear things up. But I would argue if the pope isn't catholic than Jesus lied and we all know that isn't possible.

    Some love spending their time going back and forth for seemingly forever and I respect that, this forum is essentially for that very purpose, discussion. I would also suggest many here caught up in it, whether participating or viewing might find it very unhealthy, divisive, and spiritually unsettling. There has to be fruit or you are not likely following God's will.

    Big picture, we all LOVE this Guy and He loves us!! And we are all on the same side and very blessed to be so! May the intercession of our Blessed Mother guide all to follow the Will of her Son.

    [​IMG]
     
  11. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

    We are not all on the same side......: the final battle between the Lord and the reign of Satan will be about marriage and the family. Don’t be afraid, she added, because anyone who operates for the sanctity of marriage and the family will always be contended and opposed in every way, because this is the decisive issue. And then she concluded: however, Our Lady has already crushed its head.

    I see members here being opposed and contended with because they defend the sanctity of marriage.
     
  12. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    As Sister Lucia said: "The final battle between Christ and Satan would be over marriage and the family."
     
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  13. SgCatholic

    SgCatholic Guest

    Ha Mac, great minds think alike :D;)
     
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  14. MMM

    MMM Archangels

    Which you are praying for as much as arguing with I presume!! ;)
     
  15. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

  16. josephite

    josephite Powers

    This Austrian Bishop Benno Elbs is obviously in extreme error/heresy and he needs to be corrected before any more damage is done!

    Hopefully our Holy Father will now see the errors that are emerging with the ambiguousness of the AL!

    The Holy Father needs to answer the dubia to set these schmatic Bishops straight!
     
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  17. Heidi

    Heidi Powers

    No, you do not have the right to consider every annulment as adultery.
     
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  18. Magnificat! My late spiritual director was Bishop Roman Danylack who defended Maria Valtorta adamantly. Every site where she is, his notes are there. He used to assign as a penance the reading of the Poem! Soo true. So beautiful. A gift for all humanity!
     
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  19. Mac

    Mac "To Jesus, through Mary"

    This just proves that you took spiritual direction from an unbalanced Bishop.
    What prudent Bishop would give a penance that is an uncertain devotion?
     
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2017
    little me likes this.
  20. Spoken like a true Pius X. Or is it Pius V??
     
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