Most marriages today are invalid, Pope Francis suggests

Um...it's just an expression...."by the book"!

 

I do not have much spare time - although I may have to find more time for this forum - but I have just done a brief background check on Judge Napolitano. The judge is quoted as saying "Pope Francis is a challenge and an obstacle to Traditionalist Roman Catholics such as I am." He also describes himself as a "pre Vatican II Catholic." He also features in the Remnant newspaper which is well known for its opposition to Pope Francis. As I suspected this judge is promoting his own Traditionslist agenda to the detriment of Church unity and the pope. I suppose he is entitled to his own opinion but should good honest Catholics be mis lead by articles on Catholic forums that purport to represent fair and unbiased view points by prominent Catholics? Trick or truth? This forum seems a good place for discussion but if we are to have views that oppose the Pope then we should know a little more about their source. Many people condemned Pope Pius XII but did not realise that the acrimony he suffered originated at the hands of a bitter Protestant playwright so convincing was the opposition to this saintly man.

 

Thank you. Yes I understood that.

 

Viv, you will find there is an eb and flo of expressions about our Holy Father on this forum. Sometimes he is reported as saying things that some people find shocking, and they will express how they feel in very blunt terms.

It is almost like a trial permitted by God sometimes to know how to react to what reports claim Holy Father says, and we have to exercise prudence in our reactions.

I think Mark Mallett writes wonderfully on the times we are living, and it seems by the end of 2017 the Lord may bring about a correction of conscience. The date is not from Mark himself; but I take on board much of what Charlie Johnston writes in conjunction with Mark.

My reason for sharing this is, to express why I am cautious about criticising the claimed sayings of Holy Father; he may already know there is not enough time to matter what we think; because the Lord is about to intervene in history.

I believe things are coming to a head in the next 18 months. May the Divine assistance always remain with us. Amen.

 

Thank you Julia. Looking through some comments here I see what you mean. You explain it very well, the ebb and flow and testing of the spirit and the care needed in response. I know of Mark Mallet and Charlie Johnston and have read some of their writings. I find that they nurture my faith. I too am convinced that Pope Francis is working to a severe deadline. He really needs our prayers. As you say there is so little time before intervention that perhaps at this stage what we think matters little. Perhaps the best thing we can do is to try to limit damage and prepare to help others through the thick of it. I keep an eye open for the intensification of the revival of Communism that was prophesied and the Tribulation that it will bring. As for the Chastisement from what I have read and seen it seems to be less conditional and more certain at this stage. God save us.

 

Viv, I expect you are already aware through the Garabandal news that we are waiting to see if Holy Father goes to Russia. It appears on his return the SHTF, and things prophesied really begin to happen for all to see and endure. May God protect us all, especially our souls.

 

Yes I have often been told in real life to stop with all the doom and gloom stuff about the dark times ahead. But to me this is not 'doom and gloom' it is 'do or die.'It is getting as spiritually fit as we can so that we will survive well what lies ahead and be better able to help others in the process. Surviving well may mean martyrdom as the way to heaven. Just surviving is not enough. I feel we Catholics have to keep our eyes on God and be his sign for others. What lies ahead will cause great fear and like any soldier we will not know how we will react until we face the enemy and all that will be thrown at us. I shake to think on it. I hope the shaking is done by the time it comes. We will need a steady hand for others. I think I remember The Little Flower, of all people, talking about her desire to be a brave soldiers. I have found it
Catholiceducation.org
St Therese: Little Flower, Little Warrior
Fr Dwight Longnecker.

 

We used to be told Church is just doom and gloom. But nowadays all we have to do is turn on the daily news, and there it is right in your face. Doom and Gloom, and it aint from the Church.

Praise God for all the help He sends through His blessed mother these days. We can jump under her mantle, and be safe with Heavenly Mama while the storm passes.

 

As Jacinta said at Fatima, pray for our holy father, pray much

 

In fact, no, the Holy Father was not saying this, he was actually saying that the large majority of marriages are actually INVALID in the first place.

Which is something very,very, very different indeed.

I think we should do the Pope the justice of taking him at his own word, rather than at what we wish he might have said.

 

I did not make that distinction Padraig. I think you are saying that the Pope has said most marriages do not need to be annulled and that the parties are really free to re-marry whenever they want. Do I understand you correctly? I believe you own this forum so I am honoured that you have replied. I think you are absolutely correct in your caution not to give meaning to the pope's words that were never intended. Thank you for this correction.

 

I don't think its much of an honour to correspond with me to be honest.
I am sitting here waiting for mass in a little sea side chhurch, yesterday I went in a Benectine monastery here are some pictures

 

holy cross monatery

 

I am concerned about the idea that has been expressed here that a declaration of nullity /sacramentally invalid marriage renders the children born of such a union illegitimate.

This is not the case, from what i have been told. A marriage that is sacramentally invalid is still civilly valid in most cases.
( Recognised as legitimate by the civil authorities.) And therefore the children are considered legitimate.I went through the anullment process myself, and the Tribunal gave me written material that firmly explained that my 4 children would still be legitimate even if the Church declared that my marriage was sacramentally invalid.

Fast forward to some years later, I had recently become engaged to a Divorced person.With him, I went back to the Tribunal ( as we had reason to believe his first marriage had been invalid, due to a lack of due process and proper form over a very serious matter), and once again we were told that his children born of his previous marriage would NOT be illegitimate. However he just couldnt get his head around this and kept forgetting that this had been explained to him by the Tribunal. He pitched a fit and said he wouldnt petition for an anullment because, as he said, "My children will then become illegitimate!!!!!" I said " No, the Tribunal lawyers have already told you that this is not the case."

... but to no avail.

 

That's lovely. Please pray for me if you have time. Thanks.

 

prayers to our lady,trust in God, He trusts in you

 

Thank you. Sometimes people tell me they don't believe in God. I often say that God believes in them

 

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Lumena,

I will keep you both in my prayers.

Safe in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary!

 

Dear LM
Thank you for your funny response and encouragement but the nail is still to be hammered. I am still waiting a response to the question I asked Padraig: did he see the pope's exhortation as green light for or those who wish to remarry to presume, without submitting it to canonical examination, that their previous marriage is invalid. If this is what he thinks then I would have to say he is wrong because then the pope would be trying to change dogma. Surely Padraig knows that even the pope cannot do this? I was just trying to grasp a better understanding of Padraig's position, to see if I had correctly understood it. I recognise, of course, that we are all entitled to our opinion as long as it is not designed to offend.
As far as ever putting an unintended meaning on the words of the pope is concerned I was just thanking him for the reminder that this is inexcusable. I am sure most people would agree with that correction, not just me.
To be clear I do not think that the pope's opinion dispenses married couples from canonical process if they wish to remarry. I do not think the pope would automatically encourage such people to receive communion. That could endanger their souls and as far as I can see the whole purpose of the Year of Mercy is to rescue and save souls. I had presumed the pope meant that marriages undertaken without sufficient appreciation of gospel principles and the eternal truths of Church teaching had become so common as to be the norm rather than the exception. The only stricture that follows this is the necessity for proper regularisation of the relationship before full communion can be once again enjoyed. This of course still requires a ruling from the appointed tribunals. The pope was not dispensing with this but endorsing it by making the process of annulment less onerous and more accessible. I thank you anyway for your endorsement and for the laughter.