The Synod has started....

Oh Mac
Who put that nasty little phrase "evil orthodox" into your mind? The words did not come from Pope Francis. And Jesus warned against the whited sepulchres of his day. Orthodox teachings and orthodoxy are two different things just as tradition and traditionalism are. No virtue without obedience.

 

Must have been this misguided soul...
I am going to try to say my next comment in the most charitable way possible, but to be honest, I am so appalled and heartbroken by the spirit of outright rebellion and vitriol, slander, gossip, innuendo and sheer ugliness coming from within the ranks of the self-anointed “orthodox” “true” and “faithful” Catholics that I doubt it will be very charitable.http://motheofgod.com/threads/man-your-battle-stations.8225/#post-105853

 

My friend Mac
I still do not see your point or source. Often I could not see what Aviso was trying to say. Have mercy on this old brain and make your point plainly. I am listening.

 

Mary's dominate messages are divine mercy and love. Very orthodox Catholics can risk putting the law first before mercy and love. It's a battle mindset which tends to assume certain people can't be saved becuase they arn't following the law. This mindset tends to tie the sin with the sinner and falls to seek common ground and communication which can open the door to changing them and saving them. It's the "I'm saved and too bad for all your sinners" mindset. How many prodical sons and daughters will be saved if we greet them with the 10 commandments hanging off our extended hand?

God converted Saul so we better not assume we know who can and can't be saved. God will shut the door when the time is right.

 

This is sick . And so judgemental. I dont know anyone who thinks like that.
I do know people who love the truth.

The problem is people are not being greeted with the 10 commandments hanging from their extended hands. They are hiding the 10 commandments behind their backs ,or worse ,throwing them under the bus.

 

Agreed Mac, and I would say that Our Lady's dominant message in approved prophecy is that the time of mercy is ending and judgment is coming.

 

It will be interesting to see what the Holy Father does next. While I do not necessarily agree with everything he says this gentleman sums up a lot of the options.

I agree that Pope Francis does not appear happy with the results of the Synod. But if he forces certain changes he certainly does risk schism:

http://buchanan.org/blog/is-the-pope-toying-with-heresy-124205

 

I guess the truth should be placed "under a bushel basket" to make them feel good about sin, that goes for all of us. What good is mercy without the truth? How can you have mercy without the truth?

 

Quite frankly, I believe all this synod has done is cause confusion. I see one side spouting heresy with no rebuke from the holy father, and the other side gets "reprimanded" for upholding the perennial teachings of the church. As Pat Buchanon states, "
As for Pope Francis himself, he, too, must choose.

He can emulate Cardinal Wolsey — or Thomas More".

 

Yes MMM
This very danger of legalism is the reef that Pope Francis idetifies. As you say traditionalist groups,as opposed to traditional Catholics, tend to dismiss the Popes message of mercy and his pastoral approach to the fsithful as so much window dressing and even a cover for ulterior motives of modernism. For most good Catholics this is not only arrant nonsense but offensive to our Faith. Basically such people are calling our Holy Father a liar. By no stretch of the imaginstiion can such people idetify themsrlves as Roman Catholic. We are calked to be fishers of souls. If you know anything about fishing you will know that great care must be taken in choosing the time and place and choice of bait and equipment. Preparation of the tackle and consideration of the species must also be considered. As an example for some species even large examples you don't put a huge chunk of bait on the hook. It puts the fish off. It knows it can't swallow it. So yes I agree to approach a soul shaking the 10 commandments in its face is often a poor way to make a catch. I also agree, as does Pope Francis, that some legalistic and self righteous traditiinalists emphasise justice before mercy. Fire and brimstone still seems to be their thing. As the old sayimg goes 'you can catch more flies with a teaspoon of honey than a barrel of vinegar.' In my job I get the chance to talk to loads of non Christians, non Catholics and lapsed Catholics. I always try to find common ground from where our conversation can be launched and after point out safe landing spots. Such a spot may simply be an invitation to look around our lovely new church. Often I have to reassure them of God's love. They are often hurt and angry. Often I can share my own experience. While I may quote scripture and help them see it in a different light I never bible bash and I never water down the truth. I just try to make it more attractive and digestible. Lately a Jehova's witness has shown great interest in Our Lady of Akita and visited our church to see Her Statue. For now we have the coming year of mercy. The time for emphasis on mercy may be giving way to a time of tribulation but Our Holy Father will try with Our Lady to hold back the tide, the tsunami of suffering that approaches, the heavy hand of God that is needed to sweep the rubbish off the face of the earth, to clean house and allow for a fresh start. I hope for their sake that legalistic people and opponents of the pope by then have learned better to live by the Spirit than by the Law. Because if we don't live. We die. It is good to remember Mary's words, "I alone can still save you fron the calamities ahead." But i agree, time is running out for those who have not yet converted or repented. The Hand that has shielded us is being lifted away and the heavy hand of Chastisement is ready to strike. Let us make the most of the time of mercy that is left.

 

Talk about being judgmental, " the heavy hand of God that is needed to sweep the rubbish off the face of the earth, to clean house and allow for a fresh start." And just who, Joe Crozier, are you talking about? Certainly you don't include yourself in this rabble!

 

Too true.

Safe in the Barque of Peter!

 

Mercy is wonderful and it is great the Pope is having a year of mercy. I am planning on participating and I have encouraged others to do so as well. I also agree we need to deal delicately with those who are hurt by divorce, homosexuality, etc. Fire and brimstone is not the answer. However watering down Church teaching to do so is not the answer either. Polishing up sin and making it appear less offensive to God is never okay. It is a sin against God and the person you are "tricking". It is a false mercy.

 

Those who have pushed God too far in their offense, who have refused to listen, who have rebelled against Him and sided with the evil one, those who have slaughterd the innocent and corrupted the world without remorse, those who have not only refused to help the needy, the prisoner, the sick the homeless, the hungry, but have done them harm, those who have shut their doors and their hearts to the poor in spirit. Sins have multiplied so much that in the words our Lady there will come a time when forgiveness will not be available, only judgment. I feel that time is near. The initial tribulation will come through Russia and Communism. The Great (conditional) Chastisement will come from God. It has been suggested that the majority of mankind will be wiped out if it comes to this.

 

I wasn't judging or pointing at anyone specific especially not you Mac. Some conservatives do think that way though and that is a fact. I understand there will always be an argument for both approaches. I don't think it's about hiding the 10 commandments under the bus as much as finding a way to start an interaction using mercy and love first and foremost. The 10 commandments arn't changing and once you can get a soul to turn inward then you can start to imfluence. I certainly don't claim to be good at this at all. Knowing and doing are 2 different things and I sure need work.

 

I

Agree, as I said, i never water down the truth, just feed it in digestible chunks and prepare it well as possible. It is self polishing. No need fir me to polish it

 

I am afraid we may indeed be moving closer than ever to formal Schism. At one time this seemed like a fairy tale situation , although oft repeated in Cahtolic Prophecy.

It all hinges in what the Holy Father does now.

But it would be dishonest of me not to write that it is a very real possibilty. People need to be aware of that.

 

Its very ,very sad but sometimes we have to think the unthinkable in order to come to some kind of prayerful terms with it.

I am afraid it is possible in fact to me from the outside looking in, the writings on the wall.

 

Yep.

Remember what Pope Benedict said about the Church growing smaller but stronger?

I pray that the wolves are converted and I pray for Pope Francis' safety.