CDF reaches negative judgment on Medjugorje, Italian journalists report

A closer look at the first priests from Medju may be a good idea David.

 

It was not a judgement of the magisterium even though it may have enjoyed some support from there.

 

Not you Padraig , It is true you have let discussion take place .And have never told anyone off for not approving it. In fact you have always in the past, I think, said you would go with the Church's decision.

 

The Magisterium does not rule on matters of Private Revelation. The Church passes on the ruling (usually) to the local Diocesan.

Sometimes even so the Bishop's Ruling has sometimes been reversed. The original enquiry in Garabandal was in line with this. The orginal ruling being negative. two committees convened by the bishops of Santander declared that there were no phenomena capable of authenticating the facts as undoubtedly supernatural, these later being reversed.

 

Once again I have learned something. Cheers Padraig. I was under the impression that the CDF represented the Magisterium and that the findings of the Commission were entrusted to them for consideration before being given to the Pope under their advice. I thought that in the case of Medjugorje the jurisdiction was moved from the Diocese to the Commission to the CDF for final pronouncement from the Pope. This appears to me to be judgment on private revelation by the magisterium. But what do I know. This church office is cunning as a fox and gentle as a dove....a man eating dove.

 

I must say that the posts on this forum disapproving of Medjugorje are many and have been very dismissive and at times insulting to those of us who believe that Our Lady is coming there. I note a constant baiting going on which most of us do not respond to. If anyone engages with this it is used to discredit all followers. Now they smell blood and are preparing for a war dance. I respectfully suggest a little humility and charity and if the CDF is negative resist your impulse to dance on any graves you perceive. What would Our Lady want from us.

 

Latest from Itapiranga (for those who don't see the organic connection between this approved Brazilian apparition site and Medjugorje, I repeat that the very first Itapiranga message in 1994 referred to Medj.):

Message of the Queen of the Rosary and of Peace, June 25, 2015
http://itapiranga0205.blogspot.fr/2015/06/blog-post_25.html

QUEEN OF PEACE, PRAY FOR US!
Peace my beloved children, peace!
Behold your Mother from Heaven. Here behold the Queen of Heaven and Earth. I come from heaven to invite you to prayer, conversion and peace.
My children, fear nothing. I am by your side and always accompany you. Do not be afraid to speak about my Maternal messages, since they do not lead to evil, but the path to heaven.
My messages are addressed to all my children in the whole world. When I speak to you and you obey me, God rejoices and blesses you more and more.
Always speak of my messages with courage, without adding or omitting anything. Speak the truth. The truth liberates and saves from sin. When you tell the truth you destroy evil and the power of hell, and you save many souls from error and the claws of Satan.
The devil hates the truth, because he is deceitful. The truth is a strong blow which destroys and causes the downfall [faz cair por terra] of all his wicked plans.
Each time the truth is told and proclaimed God will be present with all his power and will subdue all evil, making his light, glory and victory prevail. Pray, pray, pray in order to be strong in faith.
Nourish yourselves with the Body and Blood of My Divine Son, for in the Eucharist is found full and sanctifying grace for your souls that gives you eternal life.
Be of my Son and entrust yourselves into his hands, for every day he comes to each altar, in every celebration of the Holy Mass, in order to give himself to you with complete love in order to give you peace and heaven's blessing.
I love you and tell you that with the Eucharist and the Rosary you will win every spiritual battle and will have the light needed for you to witness to the eternal truths in places where error and darkness are trying to reign.
I give you my love and my peace. I bless you: in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen!

 

Again, let me be quite clear, I will be very happy if the church approves Medjugorje but for now I have no opinion. No opinion.

 

Where is Medjugorje mentioned in this?

 

The CDF is not the Magisterium of the Church. For a definition/description see here:

https://www.ewtn.com/faith/teachings/chura4.htm

'By the Magisterium we mean the teaching office of the Church. It consists of the Pope and Bishops.'

 

Looks like I have a lot to learn. The sooner this house falls the sooner it can be rebuilt. Used to be a brickie.

 

The Magisterium because of its very nature does not and cannot delegate it's authority.

 

We all have a lot to learn, Joe.. That's we were born.

 

It isn't. However, the authenticity of Medjugorje is logically implied in the substantial (1000+ pages) corpus of messages from Itapiranga (1994-2015), all of which I have studied, because there are several references to the Bosnian apparition site dating from the phase of these Brazilian apparitions (i.e. 1994-1998) that received official approval as being judged supernatural in origin by local ordinary Bishop Carillo Gritti on May 31, 2009, including the very first message. It should be pointed out that Bishop Gritti has been actively campaigning for the construction of a sanctuary in Itapiranga and preaches there, so his support is current, meaning that this material carries a certain weight.

 

As I thought, its not there.

 

And I thought we were born to eat and watch tv.

 

This is our world:
a. In a place XX the local bishop has approved the apparitions as authentic and people believe this.
b. In a place YY the local bishops have not approved the apparitions as authentic and people disbelieve this.

The Church had previously 3 different judgements on a claims to private revelation:

• Constat de supernaturalitate ("It is confirmed to be of supernatural origin")
• Non constat de supernaturalitate ("It is not confirmed to be of supernatural origin")
• Constat de non supernaturalitate ("It is confirmed to be of non-supernatural origin")

Because NC mentions only the first two options, there is a question of whether or not CDF decided to forego the third "constat" and collapse its meaning into the second. (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normae_Congregationis)

This is our world:
a. If the judgement is 'It is not confirmed to be of supernatural origin', some people like to think "maybe later the apparitions will be proved to be authentic".
b. Why bother? The apparitions is considered to come from Heaven only if the judgement is YES (Constat de supernaturalitate).
Otherwise the judgement is 'no'.

 

This thread started with a lie. No final judgement was given. At least my final comnent is the truth.

 

Medjugorje, nessuna decisione presa

Everyone can stop arguing now because Andrea Tornielli from Vatican Insider writes that the report quoted at the start of this thread has no basis. It was all twaddle!

There isn't an English translation yet, but there will be. The Italian is at: http://vaticaninsider.lastampa.it/vaticano/dettaglio-articolo/articolo/medjugorje-41993/

 

I would hate to be in the visionaries' shoes if it is judged to be false, because of all the years of hardship they have had to endure. Life may have become easier economically for them but much more difficult in other areas, they don't really have a life as we do or freedom to come and go...