The Spirit of Suspicion

Discussion in 'The Signs of the Times' started by miker, Oct 25, 2014.

  1. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    This is wonderful advice Kathy. We might just need our home chapels before it's all said and done too.

    A dear friend of ours was a retired Byzantine Catholic priest. He gave us the altar he used in his home during his retirement to say his daily Divine Liturgy before he died. We converted the enclosed front porch of our home to be a home chapel (a bit cluttered at present):
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 14, 2014
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  2. garabandal

    garabandal Powers

    God forces no one to love Him.

    He recognises His own children:

    For those whom he foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, in order that he might be the firstborn among many brothers.

    To those whom He does not recognise:

    Jesus solemnly proclaims that he "will send his angels, and they will gather . . . all evil doers, and throw them into the furnace of fire, and that he will pronounce the condemnation: "Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire!

    Does God 'love' those in Hell?
     
  3. kathy k

    kathy k Guest

    I'm sure he has access to the internet. Just a couple of clicks and he'd have all of the condemning, fortress mentality he could stomach.
     
  4. kathy k

    kathy k Guest

    Love it!!!
     
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  5. padraig

    padraig Powers


    It is funny you should mention this , Kathy. I bought a large glass jar in a second hand shop, not doing what I would do with it. Anyway I filled the bottom with bright pink pebbles. and put in some teal lights with glass candle holders. I have but Our Lady's statue beside it with flowers.

    Gorgeous. It had changed the whole atmosphere of my living room for dark winter.
     
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  6. padraig

    padraig Powers

    When I was in the monastery we had the most terrible cook. He used to ask the grocer for vegetables he was going to throw out, take them and cook them for us. Often I would cut a potato and it was black inside. :)

    We were vegetarians and so on feast days we got fish. He would cook baked beans as a treat and believe it or not he used to burn them regularly. :D

    Anyhow the monks found out I could cook and bake so every tuesday and thursday I got in the kitchen and baked good bread and things like apple pie and good vegetarian meals The monks attacked these things like a starving horde. :D

    The kitchen was very large, modern and well equipped but filthy , so I used to clean it from top to bottom till it gleamed, which with the baking and cooking was not easy.

    Anyhow the cook hated me for it and made my life miserable anytime out paths crossed for about three years.

    I never said boo back to him because I thought that is what saints did.

    However looking back on it I view things a little different. I should have spoke out , the conditions were dangerous to health and just pure wrong. Of course if I had complained I would have gotten my ass kicked out even quicker than I did.

    Also there were rumours about a certain monk who was later imprisoned. I should not have kept quiet about this too. Of course
    Ii would have been off sited at the speed of light, But still..I regret...

    The moral , I guess of this wandering tale is that keeping quiet is not always a good idea.
     
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  7. little me

    little me Archangels

    Of course he misspoke. My point is every word spoken by the holy father is not guided by the Holy Spirit and is not bound in heaven. I actually don't read much of what the holy father says, but am hounded by my protestant friends by these such examples.
     
  8. padraig

    padraig Powers

    Nevertheless, I would be very ,very careful indeed about making direct criticisms of the Holy Father especially in a public arena like this. I do not think this is what the good God wishes.

    On the Church in general and the Synod itself . Fine. From what I have heard of the Holy Father himself he would be the first to agree.

    But nothing against the Pope himself.

    God reserves the right to judge Popes entirely to Himself.
     
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  9. little me

    little me Archangels

    Hatred in God would be contrary to His nature. All creatures exist to give glory to God. Some manage to do so only as one of the damned. In His mercy, He allows us to reject or accept Him. Hell is locked from the inside.
     
  10. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    This has been the subject of a lot of intense conversation with my spiritual director over the last several months, padraig. (My spiritual director is a very faithful Benedictine monk, in full communion with the Church, but if anything, he's more radical - in private - on this subject than me.)

    Its not easy to know what to say and what not to say. Please forgive me if I've stepped over that line here.
     
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  11. picadillo

    picadillo Guest

    Here is part of an email sent out by Sadie Jaramillo: I think you have to be concerned about the events that took place at the synod because they are not going to go away.

    Messages to Sadie Jaramillo
    "100% CATHOLIC!
    Smorgasbord Catholics will be HIGHLY irritated!"

    sadiesdesk@gmail.com




    The Holy Souls in Purgatory, The Synod, the Persecution November2014
    Entering the Synod for Families

    There was much buzz regarding the end of the recent Synod that was held in Rome with the princes of the church and Pope Francis.

    I must say for myself, I find the pontiff's statements at times quite disorientated. I do not know if it is a case of mis-translation, mis-interpretation, or downright advancement of an agenda put into action years ago.

    Our prayer groups have been faithful to pray for the pope, all cardinals, bishops and priests since we began the MMP rosary cenacle 22 years ago. That includes the good with the bad...yes I said bad...how many newsletters have I written and sent out giving evidence to the infiltration of Freemasons and communists to the priesthood?

    So lets get one thing straight once and for all...that the church we love will go through a schism, has been prophesied long ago. That there exists in the church right now a "schism de facto"...i.e., it exists without being officially proclaimed is true for anyone who has eyes to see it.

    There are those in the church who are the wolves in sheep's clothing! So called progressives that would like to see married priests; homosexual priests; women priests who would, yes! marry same sex couples; co-habitating couples and in fact, try as they might, to render the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church impotent of the power entrusted to Her by Jesus!
     
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  12. Brian K....
    I've spoken with Catholics who are from South America and who have fairly detailed knowledge of the situation in Argentina. Many of the Traditionalists in Argentina were in Cardinal Bergoglio's opinion, too closely aligned with government factions to which Cardinal Bergoglio was personally opposed. Therefore he developed an animosity towards Traditionalists in general.

    Furthermore he steadfastly refused to permit the offering of the Traditional Latin Mass in his diocese that was required by Pope Benedict XVI in Summorum Pontificum in 2007, again presumably due to his bias against Traditionalists in general.


    Once again, "the rest of the story". This thread is certainly named correctly for those who would like to create a climate of suspicion! Doesn't sound like this Pope has changed too much from what he had done previously....and those who considered the man for the Church in these times knew all about his history:

    As noted even by Fr. Z:

    In 2007, just two days after Benedict XVI issued new rules for using the liturgical forms that preceded the Second Vatican Council, Cardinal Bergoglio was one of the first bishops in the world to respond by instituting a Tridentine Mass in Buenos Aires.[87][88] It was celebrated weekly.[89]


    .....He chose as his episcopal motto Miserando atque eligendo.[76] It is drawn from Saint Bede's homily on Matthew 9:9–13: "because he saw him through the eyes of mercy and chose him".[77]

    In that role, Bergoglio created new parishes and restructured the archdiocese administrative offices, led pro-life initiatives, and created a commission on divorces.[78] One of Bergoglio's major initiatives as archbishop was to increase the Church's presence in the slums of Buenos Aires. Under his leadership, the number of priests assigned to work in the slums doubled.[79] This work led to him being called the "Slum Bishop".[80]

    Early in his time as Archbishop of Buenos Aires, Bergoglio sold off the Archdiocese's shares in multiple banks and turned its accounts into those of a normal customer in international banks. The shares in banks had led the local church to a high leniency towards high spending, and the archdiocese was nearing bankruptcy as a result. As a normal customer of the bank, the church was forced into a higher fiscal discipline.[81]

    On 6 November 1998, while remaining Archbishop of Buenos Aires, he was named ordinary for those Eastern Catholics in Argentina who lacked a prelate of their own rite.[56] Archbishop Shevchuk has said that Bergoglio understands the liturgy, rites, and spirituality of his Greek Catholic Church and always "took care of our Church in Argentina" as ordinary for Eastern Catholics during his time as Archbishop of Buenos Aires.[74]

    Eastern Orthodox Church
    Pope Francis meeting with Patriarch Bartholomew I in the Church of the Holy Sepulchre during his 2014 pilgrimage to the Holy Land.
    Bergoglio is recognized for his efforts "to further close the nearly 1,000-year estrangement with the Orthodox Churches".[146]Antoni Sevruk, rector of the Russian Orthodox Church of Saint Catherine the Great Martyr in Rome, said that Bergoglio "often visited Orthodox services in the Russian Orthodox Annunciation Cathedral in Buenos Aires" and is known as an advocate on behalf of the Orthodox Church in dealing with Argentina's government.[147]

    Bergoglio's positive relationship with the Eastern Orthodox Churches is reflected in the fact that Patriarch Bartholomew I of Constantinople attended his installation.[148] This is the first time since the Great Schism of 1054 that the Orthodox Ecumenical Patriarch of Constantinople, a position considered first among equals in the Eastern Orthodox Church organization, has attended a papal installation.[149] Orthodox leaders state that Bartholomew's decision to attend the ceremony shows that the relationship between the Orthodox and Catholic Churches is a priority of his, but they also note that Francis's "well-documented work for social justice and his insistence that globalization is detrimental to the poor" may have created a "renewed opportunity" for the two Church communities to "work collectively on issues of mutual concern".[148][e]

    ......In 2006, Bergoglio publicly opposed an attempt by the Argentine government to legalize some cases of abortion.[136] In 2007, after the government intervened to allow an abortion for a mentally handicapped woman who had been raped, Bergoglio compared the abortion with a death penalty over the unborn child.[137] The Kirchner administration said in response that the social concerns of the Church were correct, but that relating them to abortion and euthanasia would be unjustified.[137][d]

    ....(cont'd below)
     
  13. (cont'd from my comment above)

    Liberation theology
    Pope Francis was never a supporter of Liberation Theology. According to Catholic Herald, "Pope Francis was all too familiar with liberation theology when he was the Jesuit provincial in Argentina, and opposed it “even when this stand left him isolated among the Jesuits.”" He also wrote critically about it in a preface of a book by Uruguayan essayst Guzmán Carriquy Lecour: "After the collapse of “real socialism” (that is, Marxism), these currents of thought (liberation theology) were plunged into confusion. Incapable of either radical reformulation or new creativity, they survived by inertia, even if there are still some today who, anachronistically, would like to propose it again."[298] Consortium News also asserts that Francis has a traditional approach to helping poor people and is uneasy about Liberation theology: "The new pope has not been comfortable with liberation theology. It is possible to speak on behalf of the poor without supporting the real fundamental changes that are present with liberation theology."[299] and that "Bergoglio's approach fits with the Church's attitude for centuries, to give 'charity' to the poor while doing little to change their cruel circumstances—as Church grandees hobnob with the rich and powerful."[300]

    Author Matthew Fox wrote in an article in Tikkun magazine that Bergoglio "fought liberation theology tooth and nail as head of the bishops' conference and he was an effective instigator of papal attitudes in this regard (the CIA under Reagan linked up with Pope John Paul II to kill liberation theology...)."[301]

    According to Sandro Magister, Pope Francis is more concerned about militant secularism than liberation theology. Magister said that Francis cared about the global spread of concepts including easy legal abortion and gay marriage, which Francis sees as the work of the devil and the Antichrist. Magister said that the aims of liberation theology are less important for Francis than fighting secularism.[302]


    Morality
    His motto, Miserando atque eligendo, is about Jesus' mercy towards sinners. The phrase is taken from a homily of St. Bede, who commented that Jesus "saw the tax collector and, because he saw him through the eyes of mercy and chose him, he said to him: 'Follow me'" (italics added to refer to English translation of the Latin motto).[77] The motto is a reference to the moment when he found his vocation to the priesthood, at the age of 17. He started a day of student celebrations by going to confession.[269]

    As cardinal he thought that people may only feel comfortable with God if they had encountered mercy. People that receive mercy would be more willing to treat others in a similar way. As a result, their moral code is modified. He described Christian morality is an "unjust" mercy, which means that a Christian may know the sins of someone else and treat him with mercy all the same.[270] The Gospel reading for the Sunday he was scheduled to give his first public address as pope was on Jesus' forgiveness of the adulterous woman. This allowed him to discuss the principle that God never wearies of forgiving the human race, the significance of mercy, and to never tire in asking for forgiveness.[271]

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pope_Francis

    Obviously, footnoted.
     
  14. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    Actually, here is the real "rest of the story" (I don't like posting from Rorate, but they are the only ones that actually reported the truth of the matter):

    How Summorum Pontificum was blocked and trampled on in
    Buenos Aires: facts, not fantasy and disinformation


    [​IMG]
    Summorum is "implemented" in Buenos Aires
    - it says so right here in my travel guide!

    Wow, people who know nothing of the Argentine situation suddenly know a lot. It really is not enough to know what dulce de leche is or that it is the land of the tango to be aware of what goes on in Buenos Aires. And some are spreading disinformation about a diocese they do not even know! Unbelievable. But let us go back to facts not from gringos but from our porteño correspondents who know, live and suffer them.
    First, we never said that Summorum had not been applied anywhere in Argentina. Cardinal Bergoglio was not the only Bishop of the whole of Argentina, but the Archbishop of Buenos Aires. Naturally, his powers were limited to the Archdiocese of Buenos Aires, which is territorially very small, limited to the area of the Federal Capital itself*** - and, even then, not in the churches of the Military Ordinariate, as in all countries. So what happened there that prompted us to say that the application of Summorum in that archdiocese was "non-existent" and Marcelo González to speak that, "a sworn enemy of the Traditional Mass, he has only allowed imitations of it in the hands of declared enemies of the ancient liturgy"?
    Ah, say the Google-searchers whose only experience of Argentina was watching Evita in one of their Broadway trips, he "allowed" a Summorum mass immediately after it went into effect: there it is, in this Clarín report - sent by many readers and posted by many... Well, under Summorum, a bishop does not "allow" or "implement" anything - that was the Ecclesia Dei regimen. Naturally, under Ecclesia Dei, nothing was "allowed" in Buenos Aires, even though Argentina has the largest traditional Catholic community in South America. Anyway, under Summorum, a place was designated by the Archdiocese in the church of San Miguel Arcángel.
    Quite a relief, right? As a matter of fact, that was just the beginning of the problems. The Mass was celebrated only on the Fourth Sunday of each month in the crypt of the church of San Miguel Arcángel. And more, as reported in 2010 by Página Católica, a most trusted blog on Argentine Catholic affairs that has been in our blogroll since its beginning:
    [C]ontrary to what common sense dictates and Ecclesia Dei clarified, Father Dotro [the "chaplain" for the Traditional Mass specifically chosen by Abp. Bergoglio] follows the calendar of the Ordinary Form, reading, therefore, the lessons of this form. But, as he does not limit himself to this innovation, he does not read them, but has them read by the faithful. The modified Mass is therefore left without the Epistle, Gradual, or Gospel.
    As informed by the media [as informed above by the Clarin article], on September 16, 2007, the first day in which it was celebrated by who would soon be the Chaplain of the traditionalists, some one hundred people filled the Crypt of San Miguel. [...] From the one hundred people who were present in the Mass on the first day, not more than two or three are left... Once a month! Because liturgical "modernism" is not in the interest of the faithful who adhere to tradition. For that, it is enough, and more [than enough], the number of parishes of Buenos Aires that, under the watch of the Cardinal-Primate, do as they please in the Ordinary Form. Father Dotro and his superior, who cannot ignore what is going on, in this way mock traditionalists about whom they should care.​
    The poor blogger, so he would not be accused of falsifying anything, even recorded the new (1970) lectionary lessons read out in the once-a-month mass... [A full translation of the post should be posted by us soon.]
    And so what was the great and generous application of Summorum Pontificum in the Archdiocese of Buenos Aires? One Novus Ordo-TLM hybrid once a month. And, as it happens to any badly celebrated Latin Mass, the number of attending faithful fast dwindled from one hundred to a handful. And, naturally, it was discontinued. So, as correctly mentioned in WikiMissa, there is currently not a single actual Traditional Mass strictly according to the 1962 Missal celebrated by diocesan priests of the Archdiocese of Buenos Aires. And every priest who tried to truly implement Summorum in his parish - that is, out of their own initiative, without "authorization" from the Bishop - was ordered to stop.

    It is what happened to a poor priest who tried to do it in the chapel of the Most Sacred Heart of Jesus, in October 2007, and was personally ordered by the Archbishop to stop in November 2007. [The complete post of this shameful event, also mentioned by Página Católica, in a 2011 post, will also be translated and posted shortly.]

    That is how the then-Archbishop applied Summorum in his diocese. Now, will that have any influence in his current Supreme position? We shall see. We certainly do have a very liturgical new pope, with determined liturgical views, implemented from his very first minutes as pope. Whether these views will be pleasing to some who are now criticizing us is an altogether different matter. On the other hand, those who are used to bending will certainly have no problem with the changes.

    *** This is also important: the diocesan Traditional Masses mentioned by dear Fr. Finigan as occurring in Argentina do not include any in the Archdiocese of Buenos Aires precisely because there are not any there, which is limited to the Federal Capital (Autonomous City of Buenos Aires, which, despite the name, is outside Buenos Aires Province, in a situation comparable to that of the District of Columbia and Maryland). The three mentioned by him are in Buenos Aires Province: Villa Celina (La Matanza Partido, Diocese of San Justo), Rawson (Chacabuco Partido, Diocese of Mercedes-Luján), and La Plata (Capital of the Province of Buenos Aires, Archdiocese of La Plata). The Archbishop's territory became a Summorum-free zone.​
     
  15. padraig

    padraig Powers

    I have very considerably stepped out of line on several occasions myself , Brian so I will be throwing no stones anytime soon.

    However when I did so, sitting in front of Our Lady's Shrine before mass each morning it felt like I was sitting in the Electric Chair. :) She can be a hard taskmaster.

    Still these are difficult times, confusing , treacherous. We would none of us feel so strongly if we did not love so strongly.

    I believe God understands this ..and I hope he gives us all a little bit of leg room.
     
  16. padraig

    padraig Powers

    I will say this though. It is my very firm prayerful belief that there are a group of truly wicked , Satanic men who have penetrated to the very,very highest levels of the Church and are acting in concert to cause it's overthrow .

    This is why on the 9th of November Mary asked for urgent prayers.

    I am not talking about the Holy Father, but however it happened he is surrounded by these 'People' who are , effectively, Satanic.

    The Church has entered a life and death struggle, these folks have great power within the Vatican itself.
     
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  19. BrianK

    BrianK Guest

    How is this a "strawman?!?
    And so what was the great and generous application of Summorum Pontificum in the Archdiocese of Buenos Aires? One Novus Ordo-TLM hybrid once a month. And, as it happens to any badly celebrated Latin Mass, the number of attending faithful fast dwindled from one hundred to a handful. And, naturally, it was discontinued. So, as correctly mentioned in WikiMissa, there is currently not a single actual Traditional Mass strictly according to the 1962 Missal celebrated by diocesan priests of the Archdiocese of Buenos Aires. And every priest who tried to truly implement Summorum in his parish - that is, out of their own initiative, without "authorization" from the Bishop - was ordered to stop.​
     
  20. padraig

    padraig Powers

    I took on board Brian that your spiritual director has allowed you to comment on this way on the Holy Father.

    I really believe you are a very, very good Catholic and feel you are right to speak out in this way.

    I on the other hand feel very uncomfortable with criticisms of the Pope. it leads to a loss of peace, a big hall mark for me of taking a wrong path. This would always cause me to stop and take stock.

    I would not wish to argue with you on an intellectual level , on issues but on a spiritual level. Put it this way, you might be right while still being wrong.

    Do you follow my drift? It is a bit like watching a river , it always flows to the sea. My sense with your posts is that the river is not really flowing to the sea....
     
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