I don't think anyone would disagree with this Picadillo. I think some of us are suggesting that, in imitation of Christ, Christians should not be content that this exhausts the demands of love, it is but the start. Are we not called to show ongoing concern and involvement with our wayward neighbours who may currently reject our message and indeed all we stand for. Unfortunately most Christians, from what I observe in others (and myself), when rejected like this act in such a way towards the Elton John's of this world as to effectively say "f**** you" and ostracise them. View attachment 2364 If we do not have "neighbours" like Elton...that says it all doesn't it...maybe they don't exist because we don't want to see them (and they know that) ... yet by the laws of probability we should all have such ongoing difficult relationships in our lives it seems to me . This truth is why I see Mac's alleged Synod "translation scandal" as somewhat baseless. Lets look at it more closely: https://www.lifesitenews.com/blogs/...sh-synod-text-cuts-marriage-between-a-man-and "A little pared down, perhaps? The official Italian original says, roughly, “…facing, in the light of the Lord Jesus, [how] to discern the ways in which to renew the Church and society in their commitment to the family based on marriage between a man and a woman.” I can quite easily see why the final editor's left out the enboldened bit because (a) I understand it is already repeated many times throughout the Final report (b) I know of no Catholic Christians (let alone bishops or Cardinals) who would accept that the word "marriage" can be redefined as between same sex couples. (c) if the above phrase is left in, then the text would clearly imply we do not need to be concerned about broken family situations such as those of a single parent, children rotated between divorced parents, same-sex families. This would be the very opposite intent of the Synod and the Pope's reason for calling it. Don't we all agree that the Church has a commitment to all struggling family units - not just the "kosha" ones? Sure some might not like to call committed same-sex household's a "family". Call it whatever you like - regardless those de facto committed but broken households need our involvement too. Otherwise we Clean only give our energy and love to the Clean - that is exactly the Pharisaism we all know Jesus rejected. Its just like the "elements of goodness and holiness can be found in other Church's debate". Similar applies to broken families as well. Committed same-sex households have elements of family goodness and holiness that should be nourished with our involvement. I do not know about you but even amongst the kosha Catholic heterosexual families I know of there can be just as much vice and dysfunctionality regardless. Are we not all broken - regardless of whether, by God's grace, we happen to be Communion carrying Catholics or not? View attachment 2363 So I don't really have an issue with those words being edited out in this context.I don't expect people to agree with me. But lets at least realise there is a reasonable, alternative explanation that may help the Papal conspiracists amongst us to get a better grip on their fears.
Brian we all understand you think the Pope is unjust and that he is removing influence from your true Catholic Cardinals and you are very upset. Yet your one sided Tabloid approach to what is essentially 3rd party or incomplete info is not convincing for the well-balanced amongst us. Those who already share your ultimately unproven and therefore obsessive and deep distrust of the Pope will not need to be further "convinced". Those of us who can analyse and think critically are not particularly moved by your "evidence" either way. Those of us who are Catholic in Spirit realise that your manipulative button-pressing, your tabloid and highly political approach to things Catholic on this Forum is not really the Catholic way. The problem is your aggrieved personal values more than what the Pope is actually doing. Therefore no debate or discussion on the "truth" of this matter can ever help you - or us. You only show this great unrecognised need, it seems, to get people to agree with you - and if we don't we are ignorant (whereas you are wise I suppose). You are incapable of dialogue or changing your view re Pope Francis because your view is not objective. And in the end even if we agreed with you that the Pope was unwise to make the re-appointments or closely direct the Synod the way he chose to ... so what? It is equally clear to the emotionally well-balanced amongst us that, right or wrong, the Pope has the legitimate authority to do these things. He's the Pope, its well within his authority and pay-packet to do so wise or unwise. Suck it up as a true Catholic, suck it up. Do try and accept it humbly and move on. Your "pressing the buttons" of the simple on this thread in some vainglorious attempt to gather grassroots political support for your "cause" is not the Catholic way. BTW the "Boys Own" approach to the Synod and the Pope is getting a tad tiresome.
Again, I would be very cautious in anyone attacking the Holy Father, as you will be judged accordingly. It would be much better to pray for him and get the discernment you need for the battle of your soul that is taking place. We are living in the greatest battle earth has ever seen. Where do you want to stand? I will stand with Mark Mallett's newest post where he does a masterfull job of breaking out St. John Bosco's dream with the ship (the Church) being attacked from all sides. I would ponder and pray on this before I uttered another word against the man at the helm of the ship http://www.markmallett.com/blog/a-tale-of-five-popes-and-a-ship/
Either he is mistaken about the church's teachings or there is something seriously wrong. True charity demands the truth. Mark Mallett can spin it any way he wants, but that is the truth,no?[/quote] When I was outside of the Church, I was very mistaken about the Church's teachings, but I understood very clearly that Saint John Paul the Great LOVED ME. That kind of love from Pope Francis is attracting the likes of Elton John - what a blessing! First we catch the fish, then Jesus can clean them (just like He did for me!!!) We will all be judged on our love, not on our critiques (however fascinating we may find them) of those who have been sent by God to guide and lead us.
Really beautiful words from our Pope: Pope calls for global defense of Christians facing persecution Just a portion of the rest of the talk: In his main audience talk, Pope Francis continued his series on the church and its structure, focusing on the qualities necessary in its ministers. "One does not become a bishop, priest or deacon because he is more intelligent or better than others," the pope said, "but only because of a gift: God's gift of love poured out by the power of the Holy Spirit for the good of his people." The church's ministers, he said, must be aware of how merciful and compassionate God has been with them, because such honesty makes them "humble and understanding of others." http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/1404692.htm
Take to the couch for a moment my friend, as like you I engage in some armchair psychoanalysis. I think you're doing the typical progressive tactic on this thread: I fear you've fallen victim to that classic malady of liberalism, Projection: Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against unpleasant impulses by denying their existence in themselves, while attributing them to others.[1] For example, a person who is rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude. According to some research, the projection of one's negative qualities onto others is a common process in everyday life.
Oooh, look! Another schismatic trad attacking the Pope! Cardinal George puzzled about Pope's plans Catholic World News - November 12, 2014 Cardinal Francis George, the retired Archbishop of Chicago, admitted that he has been confused by the actions of Pope Francis, in an interview with the New York Times. Cardinal George remarked that the Pontiff “says wonderful things, but he doesn’t put them together all the time, so you’re left at times puzzling over what his intention is. What he says is clear enough, but what does he want us to do?” The cardinal said that if he has an opportunity to meet privately with the Pope, he will ask him to explain his plans. Cardinal George, who is being treated for advanced cancer, received a standing ovation from his colleagues at this week’s meeting of the US Conference of Catholic Bishops. Additional sources for this story Some links will take you to other sites, in a new window. Change Urged by Pope Francis Is Rattling Hierarchy of Roman Catholic Church (New York Times)
There are lots of "fish" out there to catch. The fact that no one was disciplined after the preliminary report is extremely troubling. The report dropped issues pertinent to family life all over the world to focus on divorced and remarried and same-sex couples. I am always on guard against being a "pharisee" which does not mean I am not one. If "they" in fact do have their knives out for and go after Pell, that says it all to me. Haven't we had enough of the Bernadin's and Wuerl's since V2? That pastoral extremism served the church so well these last 50 years hasn't it? Why is it everyone is saved except those traditional catholics outside the faith? What about those who stay away from the faith because of what they see is going on here no truth teaching like our prot brothers and sisters? Aren't they fish worth catching? I thought you went to confession to get cleaned up by God? Isn't the problem since V2 not that it's pharasitical but because no one knows where we stand,i.e. Elton John? Why do we believe we have to hide the truth to "catch" people?
When I was outside of the Church, I was very mistaken about the Church's teachings, but I understood very clearly that Saint John Paul the Great LOVED ME. That kind of love from Pope Francis is attracting the likes of Elton John - what a blessing! First we catch the fish, then Jesus can clean them (just like He did for me!!!) We will all be judged on our love, not on our critiques (however fascinating we may find them) of those who have been sent by God to guide and lead us.[/quote] I agree we will be judged on our love, but love without the truth is not love.
Brian, I will buy your arguement under one condition. That condition would be for you to review the 4 Gospels and then tell me that Jesus never confused his apostles (the fist Pope and first Bishops of the Church). I would love to ask the Holy Father questions too, but I will not question that he is being guided by the Holy Spirit. I love clarity as much as anyone, but sometimes we have to do as Mary and the apsotles did and ponder things in our heart. I would suggest you pray for him with a sincere heart and see if the Holy Spirit will show you his intentions.
Pic... did anyone know where Jesus always stood? Does Jesus love you or me more than Elton John? I have serveral children, some are closer to God then others, but I do not love one more or less then the other and I continue to find different ways to share faith with them without putting my doctrines in the face. What good would that do, when they spent 18 years of their life having me teach them the doctrines of the faith, then went to college and lost their faith, and for me to see them now and treat them like sinners? They need to see another side of me now. They need to see a merciful side of me. They already know where I stand. They know I cannot compromise the turth. The truth they have already received will be found again when I pray for them and let the Holy Spirit enlighten their fallen away faith. I have tried it my way...... it doesn't work!! So now I put it all into God's hands with my assistance through prayer. I think this is what the Holy Father is doing in these last day's>>> these last hours.
Beautifully put Fatima. I, too, have 6 kids, and am currently separated from my wife of 28 years. I am heartbroken, all of my kids are watching what dad does. Does he believe in what he says. He prays everyday, why isn't God listening to him. I am 55 years old and still in great shape. Should I go out and find another divorced gal? Gals and have fun? What do I stand for? Where is the church for me, someone who believes and is trying to live by the faith. I would love the pope to tell me it's ok, have fun, no mention of sin. That affects others. But I am sorry, that is not our faith. Where is the truth!
I live near Chicago,Illinois. Gay marriage has just passed. I can't tell you how many catholic politicians have quoted Pope Francis and said who am I to judge. Are they right? Is gay marriage now ok with the church? If the pope says it, it must be right. Who am I to say the pope is wrong? Am I right? What does Mark Mallett say? Been through this with the pedophile scandal, seen the same spinning.
Why are you using any kind of politicians to somehow prove your point about what the Church teaches?? You don't know? When did the Pope say that the Church accepts or performs gay marriages? You do know that his own life was in danger when he fought the gov. in Argentina against gay marriage?? Sheesh! Quit stirring the pot with such hysterics. It's like you wish your meanderings were actually true so your side will win an argument or something. Meanwhile you contribute to the re-wounding of the Body of Christ.
ETA. I am talking about this whole synod that many people have questions about. How was it handled.? Who got sacked? And, yes, about gay marriage who am I to judge. When people are using the pope's words to justify sin, there is something wrong. Like Pilate asked Christ, what is the truth. In my own personal situation. Suppose I meet another man. Fall in love. Who are you or anybody else to judge. We get married. Compassion. My partner loves the pope because he does not condemn us. We get to go to communion because so many apostate bishops/cardinals approve. Where is the truth? Is that ok? Did the church just "catch" my partner? What would Mark Mallett say?
pica, my sister lives in St. Charles. One of these times I am in town maybe we can grab a coffee or something if I can slip away from family. I would love to meet everyone on here if ever possible. It makes our little family here so much more real. It was a pleasure to meet Glenn and it was really like finding a long lost brother. I feel we are all family here.
We also need to be aware of the sin of silence. Complicity in silence . Many of you must have breathed a huge sigh of relief as I did when Cardinal Burke broke his silence. At least Cardinal Burke is not numbered here... Our Lady...'In this supreme moment of need of the Church, those who should speak will fall silent.”
Here's the real question: What is your mission? Have any of us been called as official critic of the Church? Do any of us have as a duty of our state in life to monitor the sins, mistakes and poor judgement of the Church hierarchy and serve as town crier, announcing our findings? Who among us is not culpable, in small or large ways, for the state of the Church? Truly living this beautiful faith of ours would convert the world! I challenge those who seem so focused on criticizing the Holy Father and following every confirmed fact, unsubstantiated rumor and idle speculation about the misdeads of the hierarchy to find an example of one Saint who spent their precious time on such things. Modeling the obedience of Saints like Catherine of Siena and Padre Pio will actually advance our mission, because we all share that call - to become Saints.
