St Paul the Apostle tells us...'For he that eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh judgment to himself, not discerning the body of the Lord. ' This is not an ordinary stand up and stick out your hand meal. This is not ordinary bread. On your knees, and on the tongue. Who introduced this Novelty BH? I believe Luther started it? And then the Dutch Bishops after VatII?
Ahem ... Jesus actually, at his last supper. It was even worse than you imagine - the Apostles were lying on "couches" at the time. Bloody country hicks, no respect at all. And then what did the very early church's do? They would come together in domestic homes and literally have a respectful memorial meal. Normal chunks of bread and cups of wine per person was "consecrated" (just blessed actually) and liberally consumed by each person over a significant period of time together. The bread and wine was not experienced as the anaemic, minimalist and isolated signs we experience today. These signs were seen and eaten as, literally, a substantial/nourishing part of an actual Palestinian meal of the time. No doubt lots of breaking of large chunks of bread, crumbs, handing around by hand. Just like a normal meal in ancient times where poor people give food the respect that any scarce source of life is treated with. Cannot imagine there was much kneeling (the traditional Jewish posture for respect and prayer was standing) or "no hands" eating (that would be somewhat strange at a meal) or genuflections (that novelty prob became popular after Constantine in the 300s as it is a form of respectful Roman greeting from a soldier to his senior officer) or even "praying hands" (that seems to be an ancient Buddhist "mutra" and the novelty only caught on some time later from my limited research). In short, outward signs of respect is a cultural thing. Therefore, the Church's "teaching" on such a thing would appear more about arbitrary "discipline' than some sort of never-changing truth for all time. Personally I believe that if we handle Jesus in the Eucharist with the same respect that a starving man would to life-giving food then Jesus would be very happy. Surely that is exactly what he meant and wanted by this Sacrament. Anything more or anything less seems unnatural and therefore spiritually suspect to me.
Quite so BH, Just look what this silly Cardinal is saying.... actually he's the prefect of the Congregation for Divine Worship and the Discipline of the Sacraments.http://www.catholicnewsagency.com/n...at-catholics-receive-communion-on-the-tongue/
Mac I would never say he (or any Cardinal for that matter) is silly. I only observe that how respect is manifested in the body is culturally, temporally and therefore locally determined. So I have no problem with the fact that the majority of the Local Ordinaries in the Universal Catholic Church see things otherwise than this good Cardinal. The Cardinal obviously manifests the cultural sensitivities of traditional Spanish spirituality which he has every right to do. Having been to Spain and seen how Catholics there express their devotion (which white, British colonials typically tend to find "over the top") I can well understand his Argentinian sentiments. Whether it is for the good of the Church that the Cardinal's learnt cultural sensitivities should be uniformly imposed around the world on cultures very different from his own is a different question. The present practice (and toleration by the Cardinal in White who is the one that counts) appears to answer that question. Lex orandi, lex credendi. Lets get a life. We, the laity in the world, have more important issues to worry about consonant with our pay-grades. Angst from the pews on this matter is just misdirected spiritual energy better spent elsewhere to me.
Mac I am simply sharing with you how I observe the same world that you see. Its fine that you see the solution to this issue very differently from me. I am not trying to win an argument here or force you to accept my position. If my different point of view and experience (which I did not arrive at yesterday) give's you fresh insight to make better sense of your own insights that is great. If you cannot fathom or relate to it that too is fine - it is still a much appreciated gift to me that you asked - and even reflected on my view. Isn't that all we can do in any discussion? If you see the world differently from me then you obviously have a very different half-completed jigsaw puzzle inside of your head, of what the world will ultimately look like and therefore how confusions should be dealt to now. Obviously you will then have a differing strategy for deciding what jigsaw pieces best fill in the "blanks" of life that none of us really know or understand. I think some of your "fill in the blank" strategies are a little weak - but no doubt you think the same of mine! My wife and I like to do jigsaws together. Being Chinese she has a completely different take on how to "fill in the blanks" and what the best strategy is to do so. Me, I am a "start with the edge pieces first" sort of guy. She...is, lets say, unique. I love to sit back and watch, especially the times when she is convinced that a piece must go in a certain place - even when its somewhat 'forced" into place if you know what I mean. I get punished badly if even the hint of a smile passes my lips at these times. I have developed a number of jigsaw puzzle strategies, some learnt from my mother. The one I am developing at the moment in these sort of "must fit" cases is the "don't believe your eyes, feel for the gentle inter-connections" strategy. There is an ease and a naturalness about the placement of the correct jigsaw piece at these difficult times. It is best done with the eyes closed (the jigsaw picture can deceive) and gentle, nimble fingers ... not too much purpose, pressure or intent.
I receive Holy Communion on the tongue and even though this was not and still is not the most common practice of my local parish or most parishes in Australia this is what God has called me to do for the past 35years. I do not judge those that receive in the hand as I know some of these people that receive our Lord so respectfully in the hand and some of them are very holy people and daily communicants. I was lead to receive on the tongue, it was something that I do no matter what resistance I receive. Over the years there have been times when I have felt embarrassed or humiliated due to receiving on the tongue. Being human we all want to be seen as part of the community and I know there were times that I was seen as different from the rest of the community. During the growing/formative years of my children I instructed them to receive our Lord on the tongue as well and this created a bit of a stir at the Catholic school that they attended yet I insisted. Thankfully my children had no problem following my lead and Our Parish priest for over 25 years, who was taken to God in 2008, was and is a saint, and he made my children and me feel normal. When thinking about, what are the reasons why I receive on the tongue, some are as follows; 1] I try to remember that this is heavenly nourishment and that I have just entered heaven so receiving on the tongue is like being fed as a young baby/child and I wish to remain as a child. 2] I do not feel it is my place to hold the Lord on the outside of my body and I ask God to enter my soul and heal me totally, mind, body and soul. 3] I wish to give Jesus as much respect as I can and praise him for becoming my nourishment. So receiving our Lord on the tongue could possibly be seen as an outward sign of respect given by the communicant on entering this sacred mystery. Just like bowing before a King.
This matter is not about 'cultural sensitivities' ! It is about belief, reverence and obedience. You say, "Lets get a life. We, the laity in the world, have more important issues to worry about consonant with our pay-grades." The last 3 popes (and almost certainly the current one) disagree with you very strongly!
Agreed David, As I said , it was a very weak reply from BH. And what can be more important to worry about than reverence to to the true presence in the Holy Eucharist? Perhaps the wonders of Buddhism? Get a life.
Oct 18th 1961 Garabandal Many Sacrifices must be made. Much penance must be done. We must visit the Blessed Sacrament frequently, but first of all we must live good lives. Because of this message I have visited the Blessed Sacrament more frequently than I otherwise would have done. Often when I visit Jesus is alone. Very few pay homage to the silent King. I would recommend that we all increase our visits to Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament. He awaits wishing to apportion great blessings upon those who humble themselves in his presence.
I can't remember where I read it, communion in the hand was introduced as an abuse. View attachment 1956
I imitate the example of Our Lady at Garabandal who herself taught the exceedingly wise "principle of subsidiarity". So if the Pope firmly and clearly writes to my Local ordinary that Communion on the Tongue is to be imposed (presumably with paten) I am sure he will do so. And if my Local Ordinary does not then I will prob be one of the first to start receiving on the tongue voluntarily. I wouldn't be holding my breath though - Pope Francis doesn't appear to be the micro-managing, control-freak type. Which is probably why he was elected to the Papacy at this time rather than some other Cardinals.
BH said...'I imitate the example of Our Lady at Garabandal '.... Oddly enough what was chosen as a small 'Miracle' was communion on the tongue. And even kneeling , without even altar rails! Go figure.
As BH knows full well, my reference to obedience in this matter was in reference to the process which led to the current situation whereby the Church 'tolerates' the practice of communion in the hand. The practice came in after Vatican II through bishops, priests and lay people who were disobedient to Church rules and the wishes of the Pope. Again, as I think BH is aware, Our Lady of Garabandal shows very clearly the reverence to which we are called with reference to reception of the Eucharist. A reverence perfectly illustrated by Pope Benedict in his administration of Holy Communion. If we are 'legalists' we can say, "unless I am commanded to act in a certain way, I will do my own thing". If we are true Catholics, we will follow our Holy Father.
How easy it is to get carried away arguing about the reverence we owe to God and miss the respect we owe to each other, the children of God. These words of Jesus have been on my heart lately, and give me the shivers: "I tell you, on the day of judgment people will render an account for every careless word they speak. By your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned.” Matthew 12: 36-37
Fair point Kathy. Yet when Bh uses his superior super brain to make comments like this...'Lets get a life. We, the laity in the world, have more important issues to worry about consonant with our pay-grades.' I think he deserves to be treated as so. BTW Kathy , do you have anything to add on the actual topic?
While I think it is good for Kathy to remind us of the need for charity in our dealings with each other, I do not, myself, see a lack of it in these particular exchanges. At the risk of being a bit 'sexist', I do think men are much less sensitive to 'tough' language. Language which may appear as uncharitable to a lady might be viewed simply as amusing 'banter' to a man.
Reverence for the Real Presence of Jesus is the topic; your comments just brought to mind the real presence of Jesus in His people.
