I don’t think there is any evidence that he made a deal with anyone dark. He’s 85 and there is no evidence from his words or deeds over his life-time that he did any such thing, apart from this highly spurious statement. He’s not a saint, no more than I am. But, I don’t think he deserves this kind of assumption of guilt. Anyway, I intend to say no more, because the whole conversation is seriously disillusioning me.
I'm glad DeGaulle gave another side to the story. It makes things a lot more funny if Dylan is just being eccentric.
I had a long chat with Magisterium AI and it says that, given the sparseness and ambiguity of the evidence, and given the counterweight of much of his life’s work, the burden of proof is on those making the accusation, which it classed as very grave. By putting the blame on Dylan for the accusation, you are assuming you have already proved it. I think this is very far from the case. And you did say another word and now I am. The AI quoted the Baltimore Cathechism, and I paraphrase from memory, ‘when a statement can be reasonably interpreted in more than one way, one should not rush to assume the worst meaning’. Therefore, I’m sticking to my guns.
Thank you for this. That is a huge difference from the initial quote I saw. What did you think of the movie a couple of years ago?
I didn’t see it. I tend to think of films about him as having the possibility of being exploitative. I go to see him when he performs in Ireland. He’s not everybody’s cup of tea, but he fills the Point Theatre every time he appears-about 12,000. He played with the Clancy Brothers back in the early sixties-they were from not far from where I live. In 1992, Sony/Columbia laid on a big 30th Anniversary Concert for Dylan, featuring nearly every big music star of the time. The youngest and last surviving Clancy, Liam, performed in it with his former singing partner, Tommy Makem, who owned a pub in New York at the time. At the end of the concert, a lavish party was laid on by Sony/Colombia in the penthouse of the building which hosted it, with all the big executives and hobnobs hoping to mingle with Dylan, their big star. But, Hamlet was without the Prince…Dylan scuttled off with Liam Clancy and quite a lot of the other performers and spent the night in Tommy Makem’s pub!
Actually, he said ‘in this world and the world we cannot see’, which plausibly amounts to the same thing. I also spotted a little more in the transcript. He describes his ‘destiny’ as being where he was in 2004; but where was he? He was in the middle of what came to be known as the Never Ending Tour (NET), which had begun in 1988. It didn’t involve big stadium performances, because he never recovered the ability to attract big enough crowds after the loss of popularity due to three Christian albums in a row, ‘79-‘81’. He played in all sorts of venues, all over the world. He did about 100-120 shows a year and is still doing it. He’s working extremely hard for modest enough money, relatively speaking. Why do this? It’s hardly fame or greed. He doesn’t need the money, he’s sold his royalties. It may be his way of doing a bit of evangelising. I think that’s the deal he made.
This is a very grave accusation. And as I’m defending him, it would make me complicit, consciously or not. This is a public forum and will go on the record. Other people attend reading it and may come to read it. You say you have knowledge or evidence to support what you say. If so, you have a duty to present it. Also, who are these people who you tell us are saying these things and why should we believe them? It’s only hearsay and gossip without evidence. What books have you read-I have hundreds about him and have found nothing to confirm this? Otherwise, it cannot be distinguished from calumny.
That is an evasion of my questions. The accusation you have made here is about as bad a thing as one can say about any person. I have been defending this person and have invested a lot of my spare time in his art for over half a century. If what you claim is true, that whole section of my life would have been based on a terrible falsehood. Fair enough, I’d just have to chuck out all the cd’s and books. I’d get over it. However, such serious claims require a high standard of proof. My cd and book collection isn’t very important, but a man’s good name is. You claim to have the proof, which lends even greater gravity and seriousness to your claim. I reiterate, you have a duty to either demonstrate what you say is true. Or, it is not me that needs to be doing any deleting… [It’s late here and I’m off to bed].
A person's good name is everything. I may critique a statement of someone as when Pope Francis stated, "All religions are pathways to God." I may be inclined to strongly believe someone's eternal outcome (i.e. Hitler), but never, ever, will I presume to know the condition of one's heart, or that someone is definitively a saint (I'll leave that to Mother Church). I know the deep faith of my Mom, her example and character, so I am confident enough after these 50 plus yrs. to ask for her intercession. Confidence! Another personal, recent exception would be my good friend, Tom Cunningham, who passed away in October. Six children, faithful to his spouse Susan, kind, generous, daily communicant, received the Anointing of the Sick shortly before death. Lots of solid evidence. Confidence! Bob Dylan has shown definitive evidence of a turn to Christ, but like so many others, I can't really definitively say. This is especially true of Bob, a public figure that has had friends and perhaps enemies. Prayers for him, tonight!
Rash judgements. This is another really hard one Christ warns us about because it is impossible for us fellow men to really know what is going on in the heart of another. I think of when St. Paul was struck and had come into the city and waited for Ananias: But Ananias answered: Lord, I have heard by many of this man, how much evil he hath done to thy saints in Jerusalem. 14 And here he hath authority from the chief priests to bind all that invoke thy name. 15 And the Lord said to him: Go thy way; for this man is to me a vessel of election, to carry my name before the Gentiles, and kings, and the children of Israel. Would I have answered Jesus's command? Most certainly not! In my own personal life, I judge others by their actions towards myself and my family; words are quickly misconstrued, subsequent actions follow and then there is massive discord. Our priest this past Sunday spoke briefly on empathy. He said, yes a word often used today and maybe abused but that doesn't mean we shouldn't practice it. Here I teach my children daily to have empathy towards each other and those around us and yet I was failing to do it myself. Oh Lord Jesus, be patient with me. Just another stupid sheep.
Thank you De Gaulle, I love Dylan’s music too. Although, I was horrified like Agnes when I saw the interview years ago too. But I pray you are right, and he’s a true Catholic today.
I agree with you that Trump is being blackmailed by the Israelis. But it doesn’t seem to be going the way Netanyahu wanted. Israel is using our military to bomb Iran, as well as, using NATO to fund the Ukraine war. Both wars are unpopular and Russia and Iran aren’t losing. So, the greater Israel plan may not work as well for the Zionists. It seems to have made Iran even more powerful today. I think the Republican’s only chance to win in ‘28 is if Trump resigns and hands it to Vance. If Vance ends the wars and concentrates on domestic issues there’s a slight hope. But will Trump walk away?
This is why it is excellent to talk about these things we are seeing and get everyone's perspectives. I don't mind having empathy, but our empathy is also being exploited. False mercy and false empathy isn't good either. As Agnes quoting Jesus said, by their fruits we shall know them. Currently, I am in Lourdes and there are so many sad faced beggars. When I tell them there is a place they can go here to get help they get angry. They are exploiting the good will of pilgrims.
Good post. I think rash judgement is endemic right now. I have to fight this every day. The internet is full of it. I have prayed for the grace to stop pronouncing judgements on people--this recent election in the US is a case in point. I have had harsh things to say about some of them and I know in my heart i should pray for them and stop making statements about them based on hearsay. I should go to confession every week for the sins I commit with my idle talk and my judgemental talk. I too beg patience of Jesus.
