J. Ratzinger and J. Krishnamurti

Recently I've been posting some quotes from Pope Benedict XVI. They've mainly been from the book 'God Is Ever New - Meditations on Life, Love and Freedom.'
After I'd posted an extract earlier it reminded me of something I'd shared a while back on the thread 'The Monk Who Sold his Ferrari.'
It was a quote from a book by
J. Krishnamurti, a teacher I was interested in over the years and had mentioned here once or twice. It was meant to be a representative example of the sort of things he spoke about, for anyone who might be interested.
It was from Krishnamurti's book 'The First and Last Freedom' (1954) with a Foreword by Aldous Huxley, who was a friend of K's and had suggested he should try writing.
As well as the talks he gave, K had discussions with a wide variety of people over the course of his long life (1895 - 1986).
I often wondered how a converstion between himself and Cardinal Ratzinger (as he would have been at the time) would have turned out. Strange as it may sound, I think it would have been very interesting.
I'll post the two pieces here and see what you think.

 

Only Love Can Save Us

"Only from the saints, only from God does true revolution come, the definitive way to change the world. In the last century, we experienced revolutions with a common program—expecting nothing more from God, they assumed total responsibility for the cause of the world in order to change it. And this, as we saw, meant that a human and partial point of view was always taken as an absolute guiding principle. Absolutizing what is not absolute but relative is called totalitarianism. It does not liberate man but takes away his dignity and enslaves him. It is not ideologies that save the world, but only a return to the living God, our Creator, the guarantor of our freedom, the guarantor of what is really good and true. True revolution consists in simply turning to God, who is the measure of what is right and who at the same time is everlasting love. And what could ever save us apart from love?"

Address at World Youth Day Vigil, Cologne, August 20, 2005
(From the book God Is Ever New)

 

"Love alone can transform the present madness and insanity in the world – not systems, not theories, either of the left or of the right. You really love only when you do not possess, when you are not envious, not greedy, when you are respectful, when you have mercy and compassion, when you have consideration for your wife or husband, your children, your neighbour. Love cannot be thought about, love cannot be cultivated, love cannot be practised. The practice of love is still within the field of the mind, therefore it is not love.
When all this has stopped, love comes into being. Then you will know what it is to love. Then love is not quantitative but qualitative. You do not say, ‘I love the whole world,’ but when you know how to love one, you know how to love the whole. Because we do not know how to love one, our love of humanity is fictitious.
When you love, there is neither one nor many: there is only love. It is only when there is love that all our problems can be solved, and then we shall know its bliss and its happiness."

From The First and Last Freedom
by J. Krishnamurti (1954)

 

As soon as I read this I knew it was from some sort of guru.

His kind of love could justify any perversion of love such as homosexuality.

Its of the John Lennon style of Imagine. No doctrines no dogmas.

 

I don’t want to be uncharitable or pass judgment on the man but Krishnamurti, after being hailed as the new messiah devoted his life to attacking all religions, all spiritual leaders and saying that there is no path to truth.

He must have created a lot of confusion in the minds of many of his “followers “ although he always stated he didn’t want any followers.

Towards the end of his life and afterwards stunning revelations came to light which undermined his character and teachings.

Again, I don’t want to get too specific out of charity but the truth is the truth and those interested in digging a little deeper may want to check out the links below especially the book “Lives in the Shadow “ by Radha Sloss who grew up as Krishnamurtis “daughter “ and was privy to family secrets.

You may search “Krishnamurti “ and “abortion”.

https://prem-rawat-bio.org/nrms/gurus/r_sloss.htm

 

We must always pray for discernment when we go outside the sheepfold.

 

Ratzinger: True revolution consists in simply turning to God, who is the measure of what is right and who at the same time is everlasting love. (Notice that love is predicated upon a relationship with the Living God)

Thus: Jeremiah 31:3 I have loved thee with an everlasting love, therefore have I drawn thee, taking pity on thee.

BUT:

Krishnamurti: ...but when you know how to love one, you know how to love the whole.

(In this love is noble, but not supernatural, since its source emanates from the human heart).

 

Blizzard, thanks for your charitable and informed response. If you don't mind me asking, did you have some contact with his teachings / books?
I'm aware of the Sloss book and some others who picked up on aspects of what she 'revealed'. Without getting into too much detail, there have also been some books published in the intervening years which refute some of those claims. For instance, Krishnamurti and the Rajagopals by Mary Lutyens, who was his biographer.
Apologies for introducing this topic, I was debating whether or not to do so.
As I said, I was reminded of this quote when posting the piece by Pope Benedict earlier.
I too have many questions regarding K.
The life story is almost mythical and he appears to have been genuine, continuing to travel and speak in various parts of the world until shortly before his death at the age of 90.
I agree that it's very difficult to reconcile his teaching with Catholicism but just to mention that several well known Catholics were aware of and somewhat influenced by his ideas.
Fr. Anthony de Mello and Raimon Panikkar come to mind.
Krishnamurti also held discussions with Fr. Eugene Schallert in the 1970s, which were filmed and are available to view online.
Perhaps his highlighting of the limitations of thought as our primary instrument when acting and reacting in our everyday life, may be useful in helping to see beyond the 'image' of ourselves and others but at this point I treasure the gift of a deepening appreciation of the Catholic faith.

 

I don't know anything about Krishnamurti, but I highly disagree with him about love not having anything to do with the mind. Love is an act of the will. It absolutely can be "practiced," and in fact, the lifelong striving to grow in virtue is exactly that: practicing love until, with God's grace, it transforms our whole self into Love.

And God absolutely does want to possess us, and wants us to possess Him. He wants us to give ourselves into His possession freely, of course, which is why He gave us free will. His is not a passive love, which lets us go and do whatever we please apart from Him, and loves us just the way we are, without ever trying to bring us into conformity with Him, our true Joy and Desire.

Krishnamurti's version of "love" sounds exactly like the modern mindset of "live and let live," and "love is love." Love is concrete; it is demanding; it is worth fighting and dying for.

 

Well said! Love is first last and always an act of the will.

 

1 John 4:3
but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them — bringing swift destruction on themselves. Many will follow their depraved conduct and will bring the way of truth into disrepute. In their greed, these false teachers will exploit you with fabricated stories. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping. 2 Peter 2:1-3

 

All this reminds me of something sad that happened to me when I visited San Giovanni Rotundo. A Capuchin priest asked a young Catholic couple with a huge devotion to put me up in their home. They were exemplary Catholics but believed in reincarnation because of an Indian teacher called Yogananda (who first brought the practice of Yoga to the USA in California) and whose writings I was very familiar with.

I tried very hard to talk them out of this false belief but failed. Recall these were devout Catholics.

It showed me how clearly how dangerous these false teachers can be and how hard their falsehoods can stick even in good Catholics.

His longstanding influence on the American yoga movement, and especially the yoga culture of Los Angeles, led yoga experts to consider him the "Father of Yoga in the West". He lived his final 32 years in the US.[4][5][6]

2 Corinthians 11:14

And no wonder, for Satan himself masquerades as an angel of light.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paramahansa_Yogananda

 

Yes, you mentioned about being very familiar with Yogananda's writings.
Over the years I became familiar with K's writings but was still unsure of the source of the teaching. As my Catholic faith became stronger, the interest in K etc. fell away. No doubt some of those ideas remain in the background.
The recent Canonisation of Saint Bartolo Longo is very appropriate for the times we're in.
So many people are involved in practices that are seemingly 'good for you' but very often prove otherwise.
I was watching a short video by Robert Nugent recently and he was astonished that Yoga For Children was being advertised at Knock.

St. Michael the Archangel protect us.
Our Lady Queen of Peace, pray for us.

 

Yes it's kinda sneaky horrible stuff. The same as New Age which is its close cousin.

 

Much wisdom here.

 

Hi Dave. I read a couple of his books way back.

I found them arid, repetitive and frankly tedious.

Please feel free to correct me but my understanding is that Mary Lutyens only addressed those highly controversial issues AFTER they were brought to light by Radha Sloss and others.

This is NOT what you’d expect from an honest “official “ biographer.

Always enjoys your contributions to our little forum!

 

I asked AI to summarize the gist of Ks teaching in one paragraph.

I found the result surprisingly accurate. (see below)

But really did he have to give a million talks and write a thousand books to convey that message!!!? It seems to me a small booklet would suffice.

Jiddu Krishnamurti taught that psychological freedom comes not through following gurus, religions, ideologies, or spiritual systems, but through direct, choiceless awareness of one’s own mind. He argued that human suffering is rooted in conditioning—our habits of thought, beliefs, fears, desires, and identification with concepts such as nationality, religion, or self-image. Rather than seeking gradual improvement or enlightenment through methods, he emphasized observing thoughts and emotions as they arise, without judgment, suppression, or analysis. In such attentive observation, he believed the division between the observer and the observed dissolves, allowing insight to emerge naturally. For Krishnamurti, truth is “a pathless land”: it cannot be reached through authority or tradition, but only discovered afresh in each moment through deep self-understanding and awareness.

 

Is there anything of value in this distillation of K's teaching, as it seems to contradict the last 2 verses of the Gospel of Matthew? "All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to Me, go therefore ...". I am doubtful although I don't want to be a rigid fundamentalist. This also impacts on the ecumenical aspects of Fr. Tiso's work that Dave posted elsewhere. What worries me about Fr. Tiso's approach is that he admits that he didn't just want to study and dialogue with other religious and spiritual traditions of the East from the perspective of the outside, he actually practised them while still apparently retaining the fullness of the Christian Faith. Again I am doubtful or perplexed.

 

Hi Blizzard,
Many of the books are reports of public talks and Q&A's given in various locations over the years. As the topics he addressed were similar, those books do tend to be repetetive. He also wrote a few 'Journal' type book, with descriptions of the natural surroundings he was in, people who came to speak with him etc. which are different and perhaps more readable.
You're right that Mary Lutyens wrote in response to the Sloss book. My understanding is that she hadn't covered some of the things you refer to in respect of K's privacy and that of Rosalind Rajagopal (Radha Sloss's mother), who was still alive when the biographies were written.
The difficulties with the Rajagopals and the legal cases to reclaim funds and properties from them were fully covered. The legal process continued until after K's death but were eventually settled in favour of the K side.
As I mentioned, I was interested in his work for a long time but I'm not necessarily defending him.
I'm still unsure of the source of the teaching, which he often said didn't come from him.
Fr. Raimon Panikkar (a friend of Pope Benedict) was very aware of K and his work.
He also wrote a short comment about Krishnamurti for the preface to a book about him called Two Birds on One Tree by Ravi Ravindra.

 

Fr. Panikkar, who was of Spanish Catholic and Hindu heritage, made the following comment, referred to above:

“Krishnamurti, as he himself said, is not the Answer. But he is the Interrogation. Ravi Ravindra succeeds in presenting that man whose life remains a constant challenge to our times—and helps the reader continue the search. It is not a biography of K. It is a splendid presentation of a living example of the constitutive quest of the human condition.”
Fr. Raimon Panikkar,
Professor and Author of
The Hidden Christ of Hinduism.