Sister Lucy truth

I know it is weird. I am not asking you to believe me, but to follow the facts,

The Aurora happened on January 25th, 1938. The disclosure of the 2nd secret happened in August of 1941. This gives us a difference of 3.5 years.

From the second secret
The war is going to end: but if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the Pontificate of Pope Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father. To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the Consecration of Russia to my Immaculate Heart, and the Communion of reparation on the First Saturdays. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated.

In the text above you will see that "to prevent this" refers to the two sentences before it, which is inclusive of the Aurora event. Since the Aurora event happened and world war two happened, then that means the deadline wasn't met.

In 1936 Jesus told Sr. Lucia the Consecration will be done, but it will be late. That is because He knew the deadline would not be met.

 

I thought you meant the 5 first Saturdays began 3 years after Pope John 23 refused to reveal the secret. And that would be 1963. So just a misunderstanding.

 

I find it strange that you and everyone else who were doing those 5 first Saturdays were under the impression that this would help bring about peace, even though the deadline passed roughly twenty years earlier. I mean, even now it is a common perception.

 

If I am understanding the point you are making and it is a very good one, it is how to live according to the situation we find ourselves in at this time. Understanding that the 1938 deadline was not met, which parallels that of King Louis. A time which Our Lady has been repeatedly appearing in regards to the same general themes.

I also agree with you that everything after "if not" has not come to pass yet, though I believe it is possible certain parts have, others are currently playing out and some have yet to begin.

 

Why wouldn't it? If everyone tried to live according to God's will then we would have peace in the world buuuut that doesn't always happen does it?

There are two aspects to the devotion: a personal one on one and then a universal aspect, including all mankind. If one sets out to do the devotion you are personally consoling the Holy mother, it wasn't solely designed to avert WW2. She wanted to bring devotion to her immaculate heart inorder that her Son may be understood and loved more. The universal aspect thus follows, more souls praying for reparation the more souls that will be saved.
I don't think you can apply the concept of dealine to a devotion.

 

Yes, you understood me correctly!
Where are you getting the 1938 date? I thought it was 1929...

I agree with you too, we are seeing a lot of things fit into play, especially Russia's errors. I am becoming fast convinced Russia's errors are essentially a form of Zionism. I apologize, I can't form a cohesive argument for this yet but in my head it makes sense

 

I understand what you are saying logically, but the mandate and deadline was given by heaven in regards to Fatima. A person can continue with the devotion if they wish, and it is always a good thing, but they should not be under the pretense that this will bring about the peace option which expired in 1938.

The 1938 date is in regards to the Aurora Borealis event which covered the nothern hemisphere of the globe. The sign from heaven illuminating the night, which was immediately followed by the worse war of WWII.

 

Well as the little old lady from Brooklyn said to Fr Groeschel once--"What can it hoit?"(hurt)
I am betting Our Lady who is now outside of time uses those 5 First Saturdays most effectively.

 

I agree this devotion can save us, our families and the world. My family has been truly devoted to it. No time stamp on it.

 

Absolutely, I am not denying the efficacy of devotional prayer. I am only pointing out facts regarding the timeline of the second secret of Fatima. That is all.

 

There is a time stamp on it in relation to the 1938 deadline mandated by heaven, the peace option passed before the laity even got a chance to look at the first five Saturdays devotion. Even Jesus in 1936 told Sr. Lucia that the consecration would happen but would be late. Feel free to prove me wrong. In fact, I would love to be wrong because it would mean the peace option of the second secret would still be available.

I am not pointing this stuff out to be mean or indignant, but to give rise to truth regarding these facts. There are questions now which bother me.

Why is it that the laity only received the first 5 Saturdays devotion after the option for peace passed. The miracle of the sun is considered to be the greatest miracle since the ascension. Why weren't the church authorities hanging on to Sr. Lucia's every word?

What does this imply about the church authorities between 1917 and 1938?

Why would Jesus allow us the option for peace if He knew authorities wouldn't make the mandate available until after the option passed?

 

The similarity to Zionism is in the interpretation of the phrase "the errors of Russia."

Zionism is an earthly-focused, immanentization of a spiritual reality. The real Zion, in the Bible, is the name given to a transcendental reality in which faithful souls experience God. It is not a geographical piece of land on the globe as the Zionists think it is.

And the Zionist's error is the same error as the original Jews who rejected Jesus as their Messiah. Why did they reject Him? Because he was the son of a humble carpenter who rode into Jerusalem on a donkey and allowed himself to be crucified by the Romans. Their idea of the Messiah was a guy who was going to defeat all of the enemies of the Jews, starting with the Romans, and put the Jews in power as governors of "the world."

Fast forward to our times. When Catholics interpret the words "the errors of Russia" and "the era of peace" to refer to geopolitical realities and not spiritual realities, they are making the same fundamental mistake of the Zionists (and the original Jews). They are seeing Fatima, Our Lady's greatest triumph over Satan [Gen. 3:15] thorough the lens geopolitics, earthly concerns.

The "errors of Russia" refers to the plan to infiltrate the Church and install a Fifth Column within the Church itself to undermine its teachings and worship from within. The concern with that is not primarily that "the Church" will be destroyed. The main concern is the loss of innumerable souls who chase after the novelties introduced into the Church by the Fifth Column infiltrators. And Russia and Communism are simply the agents of Freemasonry carrying out its plans.

The "era of peace" is not something that will happen to the whole geopolitical world. It is something that will be experienced in the souls of believers after the Warning and Miracle. It will be a very short period of time (weeks, maybe a few months). Satan will have been chained up [Apoc. 20:1-5]. Its purpose is to strengthen the "elect" for the final battle with Satan. After this, there will be the final spiritual-religious battle, the period of the Two Witness (lasting no more than a few years). Then the Second Coming will occur, which, for the faithful who persevered through "the Church's Final Trial," will inaugurate the New Heaven and New Earth, the New Paradise. For the reprobate, the Second Coming will be their final judgment and punishment in eternal Hell.

All of these things will be happening in a handful of years, one after another. But they are spiritual events primarily. And if people are focused on "earthly things" and an "earthly peace," they will be deceived because the Antichrist will give them what they are looking for, as St. Paul hints at in 1 Thessalonians 5:

1 But of the times and moments, brethren, you need not, that we should write to you; 2 For yourselves know perfectly, that the day of the Lord shall so come, as a thief in the night. 3 For when they shall say, peace and security; then shall sudden destruction come upon them, as the pains upon her that is with child, and they shall not escape 4 But you, brethren, are not in darkness, that that day should overtake you as a thief. 5 For all you are the children of light, and children of the day: we are not of the night, nor of darkness.​

 

I remember people discussing this on the forum and someone saying the bishops in Rome standing around and laughing and saying why should we listen to peasant children, sigh. They are too proud and conceited to listen to God. I still pray every day for Our Lady of America's intentions. I've seen them bring up Our Lady of America's intentions at the bishop's conference and just almost laughingly dismiss it. Sister Mildred said Our Lady said it would be done but done late. They will do it when things are terrible, when things are desperate and they will then do it out of desperation but it will be done late.

Our Lady of America | Mother of God

 

This is much more plausible than any theory I can muster. I mean, maybe there were free-masons already there who were laughing along. But everyone giving each other pats on the back and having a good laugh in the face of such uncontrovertable evidence seems so so very likely. Then when WWII started and it became apparent that it was only ramping up, they backtracked and uncomfortably published the 2nd secret. But it was already too late.

 

What is the "peace option?" Our Lady said that in the end, her Immaculate Heart would triumph. The pope WOULD consecrate Russia to her, and a period of peace would be granted to the world. So this is the guaranteed back-up peace option, as Mary knew from the beginning that her warnings would not be needed in time to avert WWII.

The fact that she came anyway, and asked for devotion to her Immaculate Heart and the First Five Saturdays, knowing that it wouldn't be done in time to avert WWII, means that there is still good reason to practice this devotion even after the first "peace option" expired. I believe it is all the prayers of the faithful to her Immaculate Heart (plus the eventual late consecration of Russia) that is bringing about her triumph.

 

Everything after "in the end" is a statement of fact, which is not contingent on anything. The only parts which are contingent on the first 5 Saturdays and consecration, as mentioned by Our Lady, are the two lines before "To prevent this", and two lines after "first Saturdays".

The war is going to end: but if people do not cease offending God, a worse one will break out during the Pontificate of Pope Pius XI. When you see a night illumined by an unknown light, know that this is the great sign given you by God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father. To prevent this

First Saturdays. If my requests are heeded, Russia will be converted, and there will be peace; if not, she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church. The good will be martyred; the Holy Father will have much to suffer; various nations will be annihilated.

 

The reason for the Five First Saturdays is that Jesus wanted to establish devotion to Mary's Immaculate Heart. It wasn't primarily something God came up with as a prevention of WWII and then we blew it and that's that. WWII would have been prevented if enough of the world had become devoted to Mary's Immaculate Heart. But not enough people truly turned to Mary like was needed to change enough hearts to prevent war.

Mary and Jesus knew it would happen that way, so it seems that we were meant to see what the world is capable of without devotion to Mary.

Yes, the peace to be granted to the world when Mary's Heart triumphs is stated as fact. That must mean that enough people ARE going to become devoted to Mary, at least partially due to the prayers and devotion of all of those who keep faithfully honoring Mary, making reparation to her, and spreading devotion to her, and due to Pope JPII's consecration of Russia.

Remember that these are not specific actions requested just in order to bring us peace. The primary reason is to establish devotion to Mary because Jesus wants her loved and honored. The secondary reason is that only through widespread devotion to Mary can the hearts of mankind be transformed, and therefore the world, and that is why the triumph of her heart will bring us peace.

 

First off, I am enjoying this conversation and better analyzing the message helps to learn. I just want to put this out there before you read my response.

I agree that this is part of it but not all of it. When we look at what happened with the devotion to the Sacred Heart of Jesus in France, we see a parallel kind of theme occurring. There are graces/chastisements given by heaven simply by obeying/disobeying the mandates from heaven.

Clearly Jesus knew before hand because He directly said so to Sr. Lucia. Which likely means Our Lady knew as well. So, I agree with this part. However there are many ways this could be interpreted. One such way is that it could be that God wants us to understand what the Immaculate Heart actually is and to imitate it.

I am not saying that devotees of Our Lady do not have an influence on the world or that the consecration of Russia by PSJPII did not have an influence either. What I am saying is that we had a mandate from heaven that we missed in 1938. So we went down the "if not" timeline of the message instead of the "if" timeline. The consecration by PSJPII could be the consecration mentioned after "In the end" by Our Lady. So it is in fact possibly a gift from heaven, one of the four promises by Our Lady answered.

I think that if heaven gives us a mandate and we fail to meet it, and then all the stuff Our Lady said would happen came true if we failed to meet it, means that if heaven asks for specific actions to take place we should be doing them. While the desired outcome is to eventually be transformed, we still have to take a collective leap of faith. Essentially learn the easy way or the hard way.

If my requests are heeded,

1. Russia will be converted,
2. and there will be peace;

if not

1. she will spread her errors throughout the world, causing wars and persecutions of the Church.
2. The good will be martyred;
3. the Holy Father will have much to suffer;
4. various nations will be annihilated.

In the end

1. my Immaculate Heart will triumph.
2. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to me,
3. and she shall be converted,
4. and a period of peace will be granted to the world.

If we look at the if not part of the message, we already see all of this has come to pass to various degrees. If the last four parts after In the end were contingent on the church making the first 5 Saturdays devotion we wouldn't make it. But if we had made the deadline all the parts of In the end would have also happened already. Either way the last four things are going to happen is what she told us.

 

I agree with all of this. I was chiming in to help answer your question of why it would even be necessary at this point to make the 5 Saturdays devotion when we already missed the deadline. My view is that the primary aim of the 5 Saturdays devotion is to honor and make reparation to Mary, and to save souls.

"Look My daughter, at My Heart, surrounded with thorns with which ungrateful men pierce Me at every moment by their blasphemies and ingratitude. You at least try to console Me and announce in My name that I promise to assist at the moment of death, with all the graces necessary for salvation, all those who, on the First Saturday of five consecutive months, shall confess, receive Holy Communion, recite five decades of the Rosary, and keep Me company for fifteen minutes while meditating on the fifteen mysteries of the Rosary, with the intention of making Reparation to Me."
--Mary, to Sr Lucia

No matter what punishments are still underway or coming because the requests weren't fulfilled earlier, we can still make reparation to Mary and save as many souls as possible. In that way, Mary's heart triumphs. Chastisement is lessened when fewer of the souls perishing are lost to Hell.