Russia was consecrated and was converted, just as Our Lady of Fatima predicted. I know you take the opposing viewpoint, so I am curious: What do you think will happen when Russia is "really" consecrated? The "errors of Russia" (Communism - which is simply atheism put into popular and political practice) have spread, just as Our Lady predicted. They spread to The West. We await the Triumph, the Era of Peace, which Pope Benedict prayed (in 2010) would commence BEFORE 2017. The Consecration of Russia is only one key required to unlock the Era of Peace. The other key is Penance. The more Penance we do the quicker the Era of Peace will come .
Andy, there are many bad 'players' in the world right now in varying degrees. The US being one of them as they dig deeper and deeper into communism (obama-care as just one example). Russia being the founder of communism is essential to its consecration. While this is on the philisophical end, Russia as a country has been prophesised to wage war and "annihilate many nations", as per our Lady of Fatima. She calls out Russia specifically, because they will literally wage war against all of Europe and anyone who tries to interfere with them miltarily.
The same thing will happen to Russia that happened to the Aztech Indians in Mexico in 1531, when the Mother of God converted them. Millions became Catholic within a very short period time. Russia on the other hand has way less than 1% Catholic (300,000) in the whole country. The Orthodox helped pillage and took over many Catholic Churches during the Soviet uprising. Conversion means just that... that one comes into the truth. Russia has invited every religion, but the Catholic faith into its favor to this point.
More alcohol is consumed in Russia than in almost any other country in the world and consumption has increased by three times in the last 15 years. Abortion is used as a method of contraception (though admittedly the government is now trying to discourage this because the population is decreasing at an alarming rate). One third of the country's wealth is in the hands of a handful of government friendly oligarchs. Beggars are common on the streets. Prostitution is rife because of poverty and drug addiction. The state sponsored Orthodox church supports the government right or wrong to retain its newly restored privileges including retention of Catholic property. Journalists and others who criticise Putin can expect to be imprisoned, assassinated or disappear. Is this conversion? No, it certainly hasn't happened yet and there are not even any signs of it, it will be unmistakable when it does. Also do not forget that the only specific requests made by Our Lady were: 1. The consecration of Russia by the Pope together with all the bishops 2, THE DEVOTION OF THE FIVE FIRST SATURDAYS. When we do it, we can expect to see such changes as are currently unimaginable.
The US has been infected by atheistic communism, I think we all agree with that. Who is responsible for this? I would say those in charge of making/creating our money which is against our constitution. Anybody read Jefferson on central banking? Does everybody know the federal reserve is a private corp and not part of our govt? The same people that have enslaved Ireland, Greece, Spain,etc., and now the US are the errors of Russia! They demand secular atheism and are anti-Christ! Just like Christ said, "they will hate you because they hated me first"! Who are these people? Mel Gibson knows, Jim Caviziel knoews. They are the enemies of Christ. The consecration of Russia may not have been done but the US govt has become the enemy of Christ. All I am saying is that our prayers can affect the world and I believe they have. Anybody want to argue that the US is more Christian than Russia? More friendly to Christianity? Go ahead Fatima.
I don't know about Russia,.. I don't know how you can knock Americans who have given so much to other countries. Whenever there is a disaster,..Americans are always there to help one another. What Americans are now is a product of big government gone bad. Obama wanted change and those who voted him in will soon find out the change he had in mind was totalitarianism as our freedoms and rights are being slowly stripped away. And regardless of what this President says,..we are a Christian nation. Between the liberal media and the communist manifesto America has been hard hit as the goal is to eradicate God from the face of the earth. It is true many have been blinded and are living a Godless life but there are Christians in every part of the U.S. who will still rise up to the occasion,..so don't lump us all together.
Well said sunburst! picadillo, I am not sure why you make this personal. Did you not read my statement above about the US??? "Andy, there are many bad 'players' in the world right now in varying degrees. The US being one of them as they dig deeper and deeper into communism (obama-care as just one example)". This being said, the US is still a Christian nation. However, our politicians are for the most part corrupt and are not good practicing Christians. Many of them "catholic" in name only. Freemasonry is live and well in our US government. It makes no sense to compare the morals of the US against Russia. Both have their set of issues, but only one, Russia, has been identified by heaven as needing to be consecrated to the Immaculate Heart of Mary and it has not been done by any measure. This is the whole point of discussion in this particular thread.
Steve, Every nation and person will have to battle with sin and evil until the Second Coming. There will still be sin and evil and suffering during the Era of Peace. The evils that you mentioned regarding Russia you will find in every country to some extent (your bit about Putin assassinating journalists is undocumented nonsense). But I found it interesting that you failed to mention that right now in Russia there are in fact more legal restrictions on two sins that cry to Heaven for Vengeance - Abortion and Sodomy - than there are in the United States. Strange, isn't it? Even stranger considering that such a development would have been unheard of during Russia's Soviet days. Compared to where Russia was a little over fifty years ago and where she is today, Russia has converted and has thrown a monkey wrench into the plans of Western warmongers.
But I found it interesting that you failed to mention that right now in Russia there are in fact more legal restrictions on two sins that cry to Heaven for Vengeance - Abortion and Sodomy - than there are in the United States. Strange, isn't it? Even stranger considering that such a development would have been unheard of during Russia's Soviet days. Compared to where Russia was a little over fifty years ago and where she is today, Russia has converted and has thrown a monkey wrench into the plans of Western warmongers. Well said. Gowever, I believe Russia still has to convert to Catholicism. She has changed due to prayer and the consecrations, we believe prayer can change things but she has already spread her errors which are now infecting the governments of the west. Remember, with communism, you only need to control 5% of key positions to control the entire country. I never said the people of the US aren't majority Christian, unfortunately we do not control any majority positions of power. The west/US/zionists ARE the warmongers in the world today.
David, the several murders of journalists who have upset Putin are well documented. Russia is clearly and absolutely unconverted and anyone who believes otherwise is living in 'cloud cuckoo land'.
Can we please not keep this debate going again in this thread between whether or not Russia has been consecrated. My concern is that pretty soon we won't have any threads left open on Fatima because the same discussion keeps coming up and we pretty much all know where people stand at this point on it and have read all the arguments coming from all parties.
This debate is significantly different because it hinges on whether there are signs or not of Russia's conversion. It is a new argument that such signs are evident! (It should also be noted that Pope Francis never used the word 'consecrate' or 'consecration' but merely 'entrustment' which is of a different order. When Pope Pius XII consecrated the world he actually entrusted and consecrated the world.)
I think someone made the point earlier that nations have been "annihilated" by the U.S. per the Virgin Mary's prophecy, and pointed to Iraq, etc. I get the sense that the annihilation she spoke of is much more than what has transpired in the past 15 years. Therefore, I think it is incorrect to assume this to have taken place, and by whom. Thus, it could still occur by the hand of Russia, as evidence toward the fulfillment, or not, of the proper consecration. an·ni·hi·late verb \ə-ˈnī-ə-ˌlāt\ : to destroy (something or someone) completely : to defeat (someone) completely
There are numerous (and I mean numerous!) prophecies that Russia will invade western Europe by saints, beati and others and that this will occur when it seems at its most unlikely. The prophecies commonly speak of civil wars preceding the invasion in several European countries the first of these being in Italy and I am very inclined to believe that this will happen. ('Trial, Tribulation and Triumph' by Desmond Birch)
Those prophecies are private revelation. I wonder how many of them are Church-approved? Even if they are approved, they are not set in stone. They are conditional prophecies.
Valid point. Perhaps God will use Russia to chastise the the wicked West. Very often in Old Testament times, God would use one nation to chastise others. Sometimes Israel was doing the chastising, sometimes Israel's enemies were chosen to chastise Israel. Russia certainly seems to be the only civilized nation presently to take a public stand in defense of Christianity. The West has abandoned Christianity, at least in public.
THANK YOU ANDY!! THIS THREAD IS NOT ABOUT WHETHER RUSSIA IS BETTER THAN OTHER COUNTRIES OR NOT. START ANOTHER THREAD AND MAKE THESE SUBJECTIVE ARGUMENTS THERE. MS7 started this thread and some of us actually listened to the video's that were posted. I for one have for 30 years believed the spin from magazines and news articles (long before the internet was born) that believed and spun the theme that the consecration took place exactly as Our Lady of Fatima requested. I spurned Father Gruner's, Fatima Crusader, magazine for 3 decades. I threw in the garbage his magazines without reading them for years now. Then listening to Father Amorth's video on this form, who said that he lead the 1984 consecration of JPII and although he wanted to use the word RUSSIA, he was talked out of it by those around him. Then I listened to the statements of those posted in the video's in this thread at the Fatima the Path to Peace Conference that took place this year and am convinced that the consecration is forthcoming and has not taken place. Now if you listen to the naysayers on this thread their 'best' argument is that Russia is converted because they are so much better than the US and the US is evil now, so the consecration had to have taken place. This is laughable!!! I suggest the naysayers listen with an open mind to the video's posted above and then come back to this forum and debate with sound mind and not just blow off with irrational words.
Of course they are private revelations, just as Fatima is. No-one is obliged to believe any private revelation including the most celebrated but when dozens of those who the Church has decided to canonise and beatify predict the very same thing then it might be folly to ignore them especially since Our Lady of Fatima appears to endorse them and when most of them were made when the idea of Russia threatening western Europe would have been laughable.
Well documented? Where? Remember, making or repeating false accusations of murder is a no no. Why is Russia "clearly and absolutely unconverted"? Because they have alcoholics? Because they have abortions? Because they have corruption? Puh-lease! Evil and suffering are going to be around until the Second Coming. Our Lady of Fatima did not come to initiate Heaven on Earth (or in Russia) - that won't happen until the Second Coming. Our Lady of Fatima requested the Consecration of Russia so that they be converted from militant Communism to their historical Christian roots. Conversion is a change of heart, a turning back to God. Russia has changed, has turned back to God. Our Lady of Fatima knew that once Russia was Consecrated they would be converted back to their roots. After all, The Cathedral of the Dormition and The Church of the Twelve Apostles were on the Moscow Kremlin long before Lenin and Stalin had offices there. You seem to believe that the Consecration of Russia was some sort of magical panacea meant to turn Russians into obedient (to the West of course) Saints and the rest of the World into a Garden of Eden. What folly! And this begs the million dollar question that has yet to be answered here by the Consecration-deniers: what will happen once the Consecration takes place to your satisfaction?
David asks...And this begs the million dollar question that has yet to be answered here by the Consecration-deniers: whatwill happen once the Consecration takes place to your satisfaction? Well ,if a country is converted, it might be expected that they would submit to the authority of the Pope ,for a start.The Social Kingship of Christ would not be unexpected also. I would not expect a 40 year plus timeline from accepted consecration. What would you expect David?
