Did you really not like the Luminous Mysteries, Paul? I thought they were beautiful. But of course I am an old stick in the mud and so never quite got used to them. But if I had had them years ago I would have used them. I am surprised to see you criticise Jp2. I always rated him one of the Greats.
Whoa. There is a fine line between "struggling" and ridicule and veiled comments about heretical teaching which is what I see in a few comments above. I'm disappointed to read these on this site.
Fatima, Pope Francis was preaching about reconciliation based on 2 Corinthians: 5:20 So we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We beseech you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. 21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God. Miker included a number of quotes from the Catechism that emphasis this vicarious role of Christ. I believe that Pope Francis, in speaking about the Sacrament of Reconciliation, was taking into account that each of us will be sinners until we are six feet under. He wanted to emphasize that Jesus took our sins upon Himself on the Cross! Isaiah 53 says it this way: 5 But he was wounded for our transgressions, he was bruised for our iniquities; upon him was the chastisement that made us whole, and with his stripes we are healed. 6 All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned every one to his own way; and the LORD has laid on him the iniquity of us all. I think the message Pope Francis wants us to take to others is that in Jesus we are free. Mercy should produce joy. It is tears of joy and gratitude that we should shed when we gaze upon the crucifix. This sense of liberation that our relationship with our crucified Lord brings should provide the apostolic zeal to overcome any hesitation. Thus Pope Francis exhorts us to take the Goods News to the streets and share it with the people in our daily lives! Come Holy Spirit, living in Mary; may You and Your beloved spouse bring me face-to-face with Jesus crucified! 21 For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
Whew... I see this language is biblical. It must however be understood in mystical sense. Very easy to misunderstand and even harder to make others understand this language. Many, like myself, could falsely think that he is referring to Christ being in sin means being a sinner.
miker, I am sure you are referring to my posts above. My point simply was and still remains, that if a non-Christian or for that matter many professed Christians came up and told you that Pope Francis said that Jesus is a sinner, based on what he said, you would see this as heretical. This has happened many times since Francis became pope, where he will speak in foreign words with little to no clarification. "Who am I to judge" a gay priest comes to mind, and then he leaves one hanging in personal interpretation what we are to understand from his words. I agree with padriag's statement that he is very hard for me to understand, because he throws out bomb shells and leaves the dust unsettled. Guess I like simple language where there is no room for private interpretation.
Padraig, I posted this article a week ago with the whole interview Michael did on other subjects as well. The line you are speaking of was in reference to him saying that the way that Pope Francis speaks gives the Pius X 'Traditionalists' room to call him a 'modernist'....or fuels their fire so to speak. It was Peter Kelly who said this on the video.
I've always loved the luminous mysteries. even before they were announced and I was getting back into praying, I always wondered why I would meditate on Jesus getting lost at age 12 then jump right into his passion. To me, there was always a gap, as the mysteries seemed to skip his entire ministry. I love meditating on his ministry, so therefore, never skip the luminous mysteries.
I'm with you! They are my favorite mysteries - the institution of the eucharist nearly brings me to tears. To me they are especially suited for praying for priests. I've often wondered, knowing how much Blessed Pope John Paul II loved our Blessed Mother, if giving us another set of mysteries wasn't at her direct request. If not for them, I'd be praying 3 rosaries a day instead of 4. Don't you know, considering how powerful the rosary is against evil, that the 4th rosary of the day delights our Blessed Mother?
I understand, Fatima. But we still have to keep in mind that, without a word for word transcription, we don't have the exact context, and often, we are missing important words! This "back and forth" can be quite healthy and enlightening. I think we need to tread very carefully, considering how steeped we are in the culture of criticism that we don't fall into a critical spirit, and maintain a position of respect and support. (We also have to remember that we have silent members and readers who may not be as strong in the faith as we are.) What keeps coming to me is what our Lord said - that in the last days, if it were possible, even the elect would be deceived. On this forum we are not the elect, but the vast majority of us are extremely literate in Church teaching and 100% faithful to her. We've got to make sure that we stay in the boat!
Padraig, when I read the Holy Father's speech, I actually hear it in my head with an accent...lol When I read this the first time I heard it with the understanding that we cannot JUST go and ASK for forgiveness, we HAVE TO LET GO AND LET GOD have our sins. (many of us never really let go...) He absorbs them into himself who is ALL LOVE AND ALL LIFE and all forgiveness...BECAUSE HE TRULY IS THE ONLY ONE who takes away the sins of the world! I am awed at how literate and well read in scripture so many are on this forum. I wish I was better....
Ah! Pope Francis! He certainly keeps our attention doesn't he? I've noticed that the Pope seems to try to bring everything back to a personal intimate encounter with Christ. I see the same thing here (although he uses language that wouldn't be my first choice, especially about sinning again). He wants to make sure that we don't see confession as a mechanical kind of transaction between us and God. Do X and Y follows. To me it seem that the Pope is using this scripture by Paul to emphasize the living person of Jesus who is at the heart of the sacrament of confession. Its always personal. Its always about Jesus. Its always about mercy (for now at least!)
This also comes to my mind in Revelations... Message to the Church in Philadelphia …10Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.11'I am coming quickly; hold fast what you have, so that no one will take your crown. 12'He who overcomes, I will make him a pillar in the temple of My God, and he will not go out from it anymore; and I will write on him the name of My God, and the name of the city of My God, the new Jerusalem, which comes down out of heaven from My God, and My new name.… It certainly appears we are going through the trial,..we all need to be very careful. Charity must always come first... We all need to pray for the Holy Father,..the boat appears to be in some choppy waters
Speaking of struggling...as we can clearly see in the world, God's grace is abundant in some places, in others he is taking his grace away. I was reading the newest messages of locutions.org last night and was seriously convicted about a civil war within the U.S. I've said before that Mark Mallett had a vision during his partial illumination of conscience in Los Angeles a few years ago. He saw something that was no less than RWANDA within the U.S./Canada. Serious stuff....it grips my heart and that feeling of fight or flight kicks in and then I go pray and all comes back to center and there is peace. I am no where near ready spiritually and the evil one reminds me on a daily basis...uggg I have a little book some of you might have heard of called 'All through Mary'- Our Lady's Message of Mercy to the World. Some just call it the little blue book. You pray to the Holy Spirit, open it up to any page and read the page. I know this sound like 'holy spirit roulette', but it is AMAZING how it works. I've been shocked how spot on it is. Yesterday our Lady said, "Why do you stand around looking for me, I am right here. Get on your knees and pray and spend time with the Lord. He wants to give you abundant graces, but you are talking to much and not praying enough. Pray and the graces will come abundantly!" Trust me! Enough said!
MS7 said...I have a little book some of you might have heard of called 'All through Mary'- Our Lady's Message of Mercy to the World. Some just call it the little blue book. You pray to the Holy Spirit, open it up to any page and read the page. I know this sound like 'holy spirit roulette', but it is AMAZING how it works. I've been shocked how spot on it is.[are these in any way approved MS?] I still do that with 'THE IMITATION OF CHRIST,' works wonderfully.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Imitation_of_Christ
There used to be a very holy habit in the Monastery whom I never really got on with. Goodness know why, we were just different . This was particularly hard in a monastery as the Abbot is supposed to be in a very real way a Spiritual Father. One further along the spiritual way who can instruct and lead you. But I had my own Spiritual Director outside a Passionist priest whom I stayed in touch with. He had been my Director since I was 15 and well..he was , he really was a Spiritual Father. So maybe that is why, partly, I didn't jump ship to the Abbott. But also....well...we just didn't click. There was also a priest in the monastery who was in a constant state of being ..well... furious with me. So much so that on one occasion he accused me of a whole list of grevious things in front of the whole community. I think but do not know that this was because I had been in prison just before I entered the monastery, but I do not know. He always seemed so very angry I was afraid to ask, in case I started him off hollering. ( But make no mistake this angry priest was very holy, perhaps even he was quite right to be angry and complain about me; who knows?} I think we see this so well in the life of St Paul , he seemed to fall out with every one from Pope St Peter on down at one time or another. What I mean is , it is perfectly natural to struggle with our sisters and brothers even if they are by rights our spiritual Mothers or Fathers. Of all the Popes I loves St John 23rd best. He always seemed such a grandfatherly figure to me. So sweet and gentle and kind. He won my heart when he visited the prisoners in Queen of Heaven prison in Rome. The other Popes , well of course I respected and listened to them but my heart never took fire as it did with St John.So in our fallen condition there will always be..at times a certain struggle...even like St Paul, between even the saints, never mind we poor sinners http://www.latimes.com/obituaries/la-me-sister-antonia-brenner-20131018,0,7399930.story
Thank you Fatima for your words and perspective. I did not mean to be uncharitable toward you or anyone else here and if it came out that way then I ask your pardon. I know what drew me to this site and what keeps me here is people like you and the many others who love The Lord, His Blessed Mother and the Holy Church. We are in unique times and I know from time to time we may all see it a bit differently but I also know we all in union and brother and sisters of the same Jesus. Peace and Happy Sunday!
I too have the, 'Little Blue Book' and I too have been amazed by it. You are ,as you say supposed to pray and open it at random to get a massage from Our Lady. Well for many years when I opened the book and believe it or not ALWAYS opened at the same page, referring to an area of sin in my life that needed healing. The only time it did not open at that specific page was when I was in real need of immediate advice. The visionary who wrote the Blue Book is an Irish lady from Dublin...now living in England called Olive Dawson. http://catholictopics.yuku.com/topic/380/Olive-Dawson-Marian-visionary I had a couple of friends called over to visit her. She is a married lady with a large family. Apparently she has eaten nothing but the the Eucharist for many years. When they were in her home she was frying a steak for her husband and they asked her if she didn't feel hungry cooking it after not eating for so long? She said didn't. Amazing. But I got a massage a while back which I never followed up on mentioning Olive had gotten in trouble with the Church. I never followed up on this, though I should have at the time. I can only say that up to now my experience with, 'The Blue Book' has been very positive, a good kick up the ass when I needed it. I would very much recommend it, though you might like to be more careful than me and check up on this row she was supposed to have. I wouldn't let it freak me out till you check. I see Ron Conte gives the thumbs down http://www.catholicplanet.com/apparitions/false185.htm (That's her with the scarf)
Miker, I appreciate your correction and insight in to Pope Francis. I have thought and prayed allot about these words of Francis being discussed. I was totally thrown by these words regarding sin, but received enough wisdom from yourself and others to accept them as inspired and truthful. I have been trying to align Francis' words with Christ's words and seeing in them charity and truth. He seems to leave enough mystery, at least for me, that I have to pray and ponder his words before speaking. I am a black and white person. I have no problem with hard truths, which the church proclaims. I do struggle with 'mushy' mystical talk. For instance, JPII and Benedict were very clear in their teachings on liberation theology. Francis seems to support it and gives it another spin without much clarification on his differences from our previous two popes. I know we are not speaking of doctrine here, but nonetheless I do not understand everything he is saying. What I do know is that I have at times really struggled to read his mind and heart. I guess the apostles often times struggled understanding the Lord and that is where I am at with Francis at times. He does however have my complete fidelity and I pray often for him and myself to understand him. I am now giving it over to Mary to help my understand her Pope.
