I am not a theologian and so maybe do not understand the Doctrine of Papal Infallibility too well. But from what little I do understand we are assured by it that no Pope can issue false Doctrine. (I must maybe check on this with the Jesuits up the street ..but be careful in case they think I am hinting at their Pope Francis and they knock me out) If anyone could comment on this of Papal Infallibilty I would be most grateful. perhaps I misunderstand? On the other hand I suspect the time will come that a gentleman will sit on the Throne of Peter although he was not elected and is not the Pope at all , though he seems to be one and he will do terrible things. But not this one.
I think Kathy if we are honestly and genuinely trying to do the right thing and err then God will not be too hard on any of us. These are very,very difficult times and I suspect they are due to get loads worse. ( I am just writing this to cheer you up)
Jesus promised that the Holy Spirit will always Guide the Church and that Hell will never prevail against Her - I Trust in Jesus' promise!
Yes its a big promise and one to cling too. But the time will come when it will seem like she is beaten. A great night of evil will fall upon the face of the Earth and that the Light of goodness is forever extinguished and that Satan is everywhere triumphant.
Big questions for someone like me (and going beyond the scope of the thread) but I am convinced that Bl. Pope John was a truly saintly man but he was regarded by some of his advisers as overly optimistic and naive. I think that the hijacking of Vatican II indicates that their understanding of him was correct. He was also the Pope who should have publicised in full the third secret of Fatima in 1960 and Lucia said that his failure to do so had changed modern history (and our future) very much for the worse. I personally regard Vatican II as a total disaster and I agree with Bishop Athanius Schneider that it is time for a Pope to clarify the teaching in every part of the output because much of it is highly ambiguous and can be read (and is read) in different ways depending on the views of the reader.
For correct definition I always go to Servant of God Father John Hardon's Catholic Dictionary http://www.catholicreference.net/index.cfm?. Here is what it teaches on doctrine: DOCTRINE Any truth taught by the Church as necessary for acceptance by the faithful. The truth may be either formally revealed (as the Real Presence), or a theological conclusion (as the canonization of a saint), or part of the natural law (as the sinfulness of contraception). In any case, what makes it doctrine is that the Church authority teaches that it is to be believed. this teaching may be done either solemnly in ex cathedra pronouncements or ordinarily in the perennial exercise of the Church's magisterium or teaching authority. Dogmas are those doctrines which the Church proposes for belief as formally revealed by God. (Etym. Latin doctrina, teaching.) DOGMA Doctrine taught by the Church to be believed by all the faithful as part of divine revelation. All dogmas, therefore, are formally revealed truths and promulgated as such by the Church. they are revealed either in Scripture or tradition, either explicitly (as the Incarnation) or implicitly (as the Assumption). Moreover, their acceptance by the faithful must be proposed as necessary for salvation. they may be taught by the Church in a solemn manner, as with the definition of the Immaculate Conception, or in an ordinary way, as with the constant teaching on the malice of taking innocent human life. (Etym. Latin dogma; from Greek dogma, declaration, decree.) INFALLIBILITY Freedom from error in teaching the universal Churchin matters of faith or morals. As defined by the First Vatican Council, "The Roman Pontiff, when he speaks ex cathedra—that is, when in discharge of the office of pastor and teacher of all Christians, by virtue of his supreme apostolic authority, he defines a doctrine regarding faith or morals to be held by the universal Church, by the divine assistance promised to him in Blessed Peter, is possessed of that infallibility with which the divine Redeemer willed that his Church should be endowed in defining doctrine regarding faith or morals; and therefore such definitions are irreformable of themselves, and not in virtue of consent of the Church" (Denzinger 3074). The bearer of the infallibility is every lawful Pope as successor of Peter, the Prince of the Apostles. But the Pope alone is infallible, not others to whom he delegates a part of his teaching authority, for example, the Roman congregations. The object of his infallibility is his teaching of faith and morals. This means especially revealed doctrine like the Incarnation. But it also includes any nonrevealed teaching that is in any way connected with revelation. The condition of the infallibility is that the Pope speaks ex cathedra. For this is required that: 1. he have the intention of declaring something unchangeably true; and 2. he speak as shepherd and teacher of all the faithful with the full weightof his apostolic authority, and not merely as a private theologian or even merely for the people of Rome or some particular segment of the Church of God. The source of the infallibility is the supernatural assistance of the Holy Spirit, who protects the supreme teacher of the Churchfrom error and therefore from misleading the people of God. As a result, the ex cathedra pronouncements of the Pope are unchangeable "of themselves," that is, not because others in the Church either first instructed the Pope or agree to what he says. (Etym. Latin in-, not + fallibilis; from fallere, to deceive: infallibilis, not able to deceive, or err.)
I dont like the sound of this.There cannot be a new way,only a Catholic way. I wonder that you are so soon removed from him that called you into the grace of Christ, unto another gospel. Which is not another, only there are some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ. [8] But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach a gospel to you besides that which we have preached to you, let him be anathema. [9] As we said before, so now I say again: If any one preach to you a gospel, besides that which you have received, let him be anathema. [10]For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? If I yet pleased men, I should not be the servant of Christ.
Padraig, I am stunned by your insight. May God be praised and His Mother honored for allowing you this to explain the complicated situation so simply and beautifully! Thank you!
It was me, Marti. I am stunned by my ignorance. ...and by Mary's gentleness and kindness. She is much greater than I ever thought. Gentle dove of God.
I'm so glad Our Lady spoke to us through Padraig regarding this thread. She is so loving, and Padraig, I can read through your posts how much you love her. I've always loved the song Gentle Woman, as it is so moving. We do need to give Pope Francis a break and a little bit of runway to grow into this new position that would make most people shrink like a wallflower and fold like a lawn chair. But he clearly loves Our Lady, is imploring her what to do, and I'm confident he'll lead the church where Our Lady instructs him to...which is of course always aligned with God's will.
R.I. priests try to interpret pope’s remarks on gays http://www.providencejournal.com/br...ts-try-to-interpret-popes-remarks-on-gays.ece This story pretty much sums up the confusion that the Pope's remarks of gay lifestyle have made. It seems we now live in a era where good people can not distinguish between the sinner (whom we must always love and pray for) and the sin (which should always be condemned). Poor priests do not know what to do in reference to giving communion to gay's, fornicators, adulterer's, pro-abortion advocates, or even pro-contraceptive advocates. So most simply never preach on these grave sins and give communion to everyone. It is no wonder the Church is such a mess...everything is grey, not black and white.
We had a substitute priest today. He spoke about SSM, clarified the Pope's remarks, and said that society is using the wrong definition of love....how it is not an emotion, it is a choice to do what is best for the other person, so SSM is not about love. He said we might as well say people can marry their pets because they love their pets, if we accept SSM. He said we need to not be afraid to stand up for the truth, no matter what.
Picadillo, It is so easy to become discouraged! We must remember Jesus' promise that the gates of Hades shall not prevail! The 50 years of Church history is small when referenced to Her entire history. We will soon witness Our Lady's Triumph and the difficulties of the past few decades will fade in the light to come! Resurrection always follows the Cross! Alleluia! Let God arise and his enemies be scattered! Safe in the Barque of Peter!
Picadillo, It is so easy to become discouraged! We must remember Jesus' promise that the gates of Hades shall not prevail! The 50 years of Church history is small when referenced to Her entire history. We will soon witness Our Lady's Triumph and the difficulties of the past few decades will fade in the light to come! Resurrection always follows the Cross! Alleluia! "The gates of Hades will not prevail". Could that mean something different than is generally perceived, such as "the gates of Hades will not prevail" against the sacraments of the church?
WE WILL SEE.....HMMMMM..... http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/4...rancesca-immacolata-chaouqui-bertone-pope.htm Vatican Corruption Tweets Return to Haunt Pope's PR Francesca Chaouqui Holy See publicity officer described Secretary of State Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone as corrupt and claimed Benedict XVI had leukaemia The Holy See has been embarrassed by claims that Pope Francis's new PR had accused a senior cleric of corruption and said that Pope Benedict XVI had leukaemia in tweets she made before she got the job. The Vatican has reportedly launched an inquiry into the hiring of Francesca Chaouqui, 30, who was appointed as PR officer for a new papal committee set up to overhaul the Vatican's financial administration in July. Before securing the job, Chaouqui had extensively tweeted about Vatican affairs, often not mincing her words, giving rise to speculation that she had access to some degree of confidential information. In a tweet in March Chaouqui described the Vatican's Secretary of State,Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone, as corrupt and claimed that he was involved in dubious business deals with an unnamed company from the Veneto region. In other messages she fuelled speculations over Pope Benedict XVI's resignation, saying he was seriously ill, and claimed that former Italian finance minister Giulio Tremonti was a homosexual. "I confirm: the Pope has been suffering from leukaemia for more than one year," Chaouqui tweeted in February. "Tremonti held a [bank] account with the IOR [the Vatican bank]. They shut it down upon finding out he is gay." After the tweets were republished in Italian media, her account was deleted. She claimed that other people had access to her Twitter account and claimed that images of her tweets that had been circulating were fabricated. "I'm not worried because the Holy Father is not worried," she told Il Corriere della Sera newspaper. She previously worked as management consultant with Ernst & Young in Rome.
