but I think that sinodality is aimed precisely at weakening papal authority, in the face of the deliberative power of bishops and even lay people in the Church, this was well evidenced by Cardinal Mario Grech (general secretary of the synod of bishops) when he suggested last year that the synod's final document should be sent first to dioceses around the world, rather than immediately to the pope: "He also suggested that the assembly might decide not to submit its final document immediately to the Pope, but to send it instead to dioceses around the world. “In this case, the final document would reach the Bishop of Rome, who has always been recognized by all as the one who issues the decrees established by councils and synods, already accompanied by the consensus of all the Churches,” he said." https://www.ncregister.com/cna/pope-francis-path-to-2023-synod-on-synodality-faces-3-risks
Yes. It seems to me that Synodality is the path to destruction of the Church. A move to implement some kind of democratic governing principle in the Church, as others have said. I remember reading a biography of St. John Henry Newman by author Kerr. He said that when St. John Henry was not happy with the direction of Anglicanism in England, he started a reform movement and the writing of Tracts setting out his ideas. However, he was constantly put under pressure to make things more democratic and to set up committees and governing structures for the movement. I don't think that St. John Henry knew at this stage that his reforn was going to lead him and his movement out of Anglicanism into the Roman Catholic Church; however, Kerr says he was wise enough and doggedly determined enough to stubbornly resist any attempts to set up these committees. St. John Henry was of the firm opinion that once committees and Chairmen etc. were set up it would stifle the whole reform movement and dissipate any achievements they had made up to that.
There are indeed shape shifters hidden in plain sight in our communities, even in our on-line communities.
Yes, and we can recognize the "shape shifters" as those people who, at times, profess the teachings of the Catholic Faith taught in the Magisterium and, at other times, contradict the teachings of the Catholic Faith taught in the Magisterium. But to recognize them, we must take the time to inform ourselves about the authentic Magisterium. What Father so-and-so said said at mass on Sunday or in a youtube video, must be verified against the true standard of the Magisterium of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church, which we can conveniently find in the Catechism of the Catholic Church published by JPII or in the Roman Catechism of Trent or in the Catechism of St. Pius X.
Padraig, Pope Francis is 86 years old and not in the best of health. I think that he genuinely cares about the poor which means that there must be some good in him no matter how he comes across. Nobody really knows his motives but I think he truly believes that he is doing good. He hasn't many years left. He probably intends to retire after the Synod. It all looks hopeless now, but we don't know what will transpire before the Synod takes place. By that time, the Bishops and Pope could have totally different priorities than what the Europeans are pushing. Some people say that depravity usually precedes the collapse of a civilisation and there's plenty of depravity in Europe. Even if the Germans get everything they want at the Synod, we'll likely have a new Pope within the next ten years. Nobody can predict how the Conclave will vote but there's a good chance the new Pope won't be European or a Jesuit. This could be the last hurrah for the heterodox of our time. Years ago, pundits would say that most organisations, politicians, etc. think (plan) in terms of years or decades but that the Catholic Church thinks in terms of hundreds or thousands of years. They would say it with a kind of grudging admiration. I don't think that they understood that the mind of the Church is for all time. The Holy Spirit never deserts the Church. God lets us humans make a mess of it for ages and then manages to somehow get us back on track. We'll get a saintly, straight talking Pope, even if it takes more than one conclave for the Cardinal electors to choose the right man. Meanwhile, all we can do is our best, trusting always that God sees the bigger picture and will ensure that the barque stays afloat until Jesus returns. We don't know what Pope Francis experienced in his 86 years that shaped the man he is today. We'd best keep in mind that the measure we apply to others will be the one used for us. Enough from me on this topic. I only meant to seek advice on how to save the pipes from freezing if we have electricity cuts in the winter. I'll post the question on a prepper thread.
The Church survived the Arian crisis so will survive this crisis of modernism, the synthesis of all heresies and it infects the Church like a cancer. What the Church is experiencing is worse than the Arian crisis. Serious surgery is needed which will occur because we are entering the period of the Justice of God. Christ with His might sword of Light and Truth will intervene and dispel the darkness and error that infects His Church.
'Pope Francis is 86 years old and not in the best of health'. Adolph Hitler before he committed suicide was in the last stages of Tertiary Syphilis. Heinrich Himmler, before he killed himself suffered from Renal Cancer. I would be at a loss as to why if someone is , 'Not in the best of health', they should somehow not be subject to Critique. However moving on from this, which appears to suggest that I am not being nice, 'I think that he genuinely cares about the poor '. So too did Karl Marx, Frederic Engles, Che Guvera, Joe Stalin et al. All professed love for the poor . However Communism wiped out , by modern estimates : https://www.quora.com/How-many-people-died-due-to-communism 65 million in the People's Republic of China 20 million in the Soviet Union 2 million in Cambodia 2 million in North Korea 1.7 million in Ethiopia 1.5 million in Afghanistan 1 million in the Communist states of Eastern Europe 1 million in Vietnam 150,000 in Latin America mainly Cuba 10,000 deaths "resulting from actions of the international Communist movement and Communist parties not in power." Total number of deaths according to the authors is 94 million. North Korean numbers have certainly risen by then. 'He hasn't many years left' I am at a loss as to why this should make a difference to critique? Hitler and Himmler were both on the way out when they died? 'Even if the Germans get everything they want at the Synod, we'll likely have a new Pope within the next ten years.' Again I am at a loss with this. So after feeling sorry for Pope Francis because he is old and maybe not very well, I am maybe to leave him be as I might be gone in the next ten years? I mean really? 'Nobody can predict how the Conclave will vote but there's a good chance the new Pope won't be European or a Jesuit. This could be the last hurrah for the heterodox of our time.' But how on Earth can you know this? Pope Francis has created 121 cardinals from 66 countries; there are currently 226 Cardinals. He has the Conclave stacked in his favour. Stacked. 'We don't know what Pope Francis experienced in his 86 years that shaped the man he is today' What difference does it make if we can see the result? 'We'd best keep in mind that the measure we apply to others will be the one used for us. ' Really, if we all kept that kind of attitude to calling out evil for what it is we'd have nothing to say about anything or anyone. Of course calling out evil for what it is involves risk. Including being called a hypocrite. Why should it not? Honestly you're a very intelligent woman indeed. The only reason where I can see a post like this coming from you is some kind of false guilt. A kinda ,''He's the Pope leave him alone, you can't be not nice to a Pope if you're Catholic', kinda deal. As a result you place forward arguments full of logical flaws. A kind of Catholic Papal guilt deal. But on the contrary I would say, 'He's the Pope don't leave him alone'. I'm surprised at you. But then again Pope Frankie is a hard horse to provide backing to, so I make allowances. 'He's old, he's not well, he likes the poor, he'll be gone soon, you're maybe not wonderful yourself'. I mean really? Really? You can't do any better than this? In many ways your post is the very worst condemnation of Pope Frankie that I have ever read. For if this is the very best you can find to say about him the guy is totally buried.
Most people here, I would guess, are avoiding the heretic/anti-pope conclusion, but would rate this pope wicked, to varying degrees. He is very careful not to cross the line regarding heresy, but Pachamama is grave, as also his change in the Cathechism regarding capital punishment. He was too clever by half with Amoris laetitia.
I don't care if he is an anti Pope or not. I'll leave that to the angels and the Bishops to fight over. He's a wicked, bad Pope and that's all I need to know. If a dog turns on me whether he bites me on the ankle or my big toe, that dog is still in trouble. Best avoided or dealt with. Give the bad dog any kinda label you like, a bad dog is a bad dog and must be treated accordingly.
I think you misunderstood what I was trying to say. What I'm trying to say is that the Francis papacy is just the blink of an eye in the life of the Church. The Church has survived bad Popes in the past and will survive Francis. The only reason I posted on this thread is that I suspect that people who don't have the Church's best interests at heart are manipulating Catholics. And, before you ask, I don't think that you are manipulated. There's no doubt that some more conservative news outlets paint Pope Francis in the worst possible light. There's also no doubt that the vast majority of news outlets that have always opposed the Church paint him as the great reformer who is changing everything they don't like about Church teaching. Both serve only to undermine the papacy and the Church. That Francis is the gift that keeps on giving to them doesn't mitigate the harm being done to the Church. Yes, Francis, by his ambiguity and failure to defend the Faith, is causing souls to be led astray now. But Francis will be gone soon enough to be replaced, hopefully, by a straight talking saintly Pope. What then, for that new Pope when we all remind everyone about Papal authority and infallibility, pointing out that for all his "Who am I to judge" talk, Francis didn't actually change the teaching? Led by very powerful interests there will be a different, much larger "resist" contingent reminding their opponents about what they call Francis haters. We know that in the supposedly free, democratic West, our religious liberties are under attack. That will get worse. Constitutions or Bills of Rights won't protect us. Written, enacted and interpreted by man, they can be changed by man. The Strasbourg judgment is only the tip of the iceberg. I watched a Q&A session with Putin shortly before I saw this thread. On the face of it, he's very impressive, all about traditional values. Asked a question about a new religion, he said some nice things about the Orthodox Church and went on to say that there are four religions in Russia and four is enough. Christianity is one of those religions but to him and most Russians, Christianity means the Orthodox Church. The Chinese attitude to religion is no secret. To all of them, religious organisations should be subordinate to the State. When it comes to Christianity, especially Catholicism, there's really little difference between the Western and Eastern powers. Different methods but the same underlying suspicion. So, whatever song the fat lady sings in the not too distant future, persecutions are coming. Undermining the authority of the dodgy leader we have now could weaken the authority of a good, future Pope. You see evil in Pope Francis. I see an old man who lived through hard times and probably felt his mission to the faithful hindered by those in authority over him. He seems to think he is righting past wrongs. If so, that doesn't make him evil. Cunning and devious maybe but not evil. Every leader, especially the despotic type, claims to care about the poor. I believe that Pope Francis's concern is genuine. And you're right that I feel guilt although in my case it's entirely deserved. The reminder about being judged by my own measure is more for myself than anyone. I'm sorry now that I got involved in this discussion. Sorry, too, if I upset you.
'There's no doubt that some more conservative news outlets paint Pope Francis in the worst possible light.' Perhaps so. But in my experience the very opposite is the case. He has the whole Church establishment . the money, the power people tied into jobs and security, the whole deal on his side. Those who do ask questions. Those who have the courage and wisdom and discernment to dare to ask questions are insulted and derided and called all kinds of names including at the lips of the Holy Father himself. Let me just give a list of the kind of grossly insulting terms that the Holy Father has used about people who dared to ask questions; his own Spiritual Children: 'Caso' (Italian for, 'F**k') https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo...-lets-a-vulgarity-slip-during-vatican-address 'Shit eaters' ' https://www.spectator.co.uk/article...ng-faeces-makes-me-wonder-if-he-should-retire "Rosary counter!" "Mr and Mrs Whiner!" Leprous courtier!" "Museum mummy!" The list goes on and on and on and on: http://popefrancisbookofinsults.blogspot.com/ "Long-faced, mournful funeral Christian!" "Long-faced, mournful funeral Christian!" 'But Francis will be gone soon enough to be replaced, hopefully, by a straight talking saintly Pope.' But will he replaced by such a person? How on Earth do you know this? What difference does it make anyway, he is here now. It does no harm at all to say what needs to be said, to speak out. 'I believe that Pope Francis's concern is genuine.' But how do you know this? How? You have not upset me. Why would you think that? I am responding blow by blow to the points you made.
You have nothing to be sorry for. You said much that might well be true. No punches are pulled on this forum, but nothing is personal. We are all trying to get at the Truth, yourself included.
No it's not personal. I am responding blow by blow to the points that were made. If I were upset it would become at once apparent . But things have become very,very,very grim indeed concerning the current Papacy. Time grows short. Sheep and Goats time. The British have a term, time to , 'Tie your flag up unto the flag staff'. Make your position quite clear. I'm tired of all the dragged out excuses. I don't care if he's old. I don't care if he is unwell. I don't care if he claims to love the poor. I don't care if I don't know all his back ground. I don't care that a better Pope may maybe, maybe come after him He is a wicked and evil old man. The worst Pope in all history. ...and that's all she wrote.
Padraig. I don't know. I can only give my own point of view. The only thing I know for certain is that God will protect the Church and in the end it will be a small, persecuted Church. That's my final word on this. I'm off now to ask about how to protect my pipes. If I'm going to freeze this winter, I hope that those German Bishops will have to walk or cycle to Rome for the Synod. The prospect of Cardinal Marx riding his bike over the mountains carrying a rainbow coloured backpack might be some comfort if I have to shiver through January and February.
What's done around here when the power is out is to turn on one tap at a very slow trickle. The "moving" water is less likely to freeze....
I would add to this "the grandmother of the west" baloney that was carried out here in Canada. No good will come from that, and frankly, it scares me how many thought/think it was sooooo nice. The Ten Commandments were never revoked, especially the First. How they reconcile that is beyond me...I honestly believe "the warning", whenever that happens, will straighten the paths of many.,..
Sometimes when the subject of Pope Frankie comes up , I feel like a Magistrate who has seen Pope Frankie brought up before the Bench on a Minor Charge of Shop Lifting. Maybe a bag of pop corn or two. His Lawyer reminds me that he is old, frail and unwell and reminds me that I have no idea of the family back ground. In which case the Lawyer stresses he will be dead soon and no further burden on the State. In which case, she goes on to state, a better resident may somehow be dwelling there soon. So let's hope for better days. I tend to take the charges rather more seriously; as well as the eventual outcome. This is not a bag or popcorn or two and thanks to Pope Frankie we may very well even face a worse guy next.
