Do I have to believe that because the Popes ( having the power to do and undo from Heaven) did not consecrate Russia to the Virgin we are going through a period of atheism, abortion, persecution etc...? Only because the Pope decided that it would be not good to do so due to perhaps political reasons? Is, (God forgive me) our heavenly Father so ... that He would punish Christianity and humanity because this consecration did not happen? Is not enough with our daily fight against ourself and the temptations of the flesh and the devil? Why does God need an act of consecration to preserve His Church from the big evil it is going through? Why does this request coming from a private apparition and not belonging to the revelation (which by the way is already completed) that all Catholics are due to believe can have such grave consequences? It is suggested here that God could have prevented the horrible things Hitler carried out but He did not do it because we did not deserve it? Or as a punishment due to our sins? Is it true that if humanity would have been more religious or would have "reacted" to the dance of the Sun in Fatima God would have impaired the violent death of 25 million people during WWII? Sorry but I do not understand the theology behind.
Thomas, My room mates were influenced by a professor who was a Wicca priestess. She taught them ceremonies to call upon spirits to give them certain attributes; luck, success, sex appeal, etc. This was at a university where I was studying and working as an actress in the late 1980's. Much of our exercises in acting were based on the introductory practices, past lives remembrances, yoga, channeling... This is not uncommon in actor training. It is one of the reasons so many actors lead dark lives. Method acting is really asking yourself to be possessed in many ways. (Based on the work of Stanislavsky, a Russian, by the way!) Anyway, when I was having trouble with sleeping and nightmares and sleep-walking, my room mates thought they could help me by performing a ceremony in my absence to call down spirits to protect me. When I returned, firefighters were in my apartment, but everyone else had run away. The apartment was a mess with crazy winds blowing in unexposed places on a still day. Needless to say, my problems got much worse. Years of agonizing confessions, prayers, etc. finally freed me from this influence, but I'm very cautious now as a result. And Studying what Father Amorth has to say helped me to understand what happened and how to deal with it. That's my experience. How common it is, well I think we see the fruits of this kind of thing everywhere. Read his books and you will understand. I DO NOT RECOMMEND TAKING THINGS INTO YOUR OWN HANDS. It is a dangerous kind of spiritual pride to think you can fight evil alone. I credit the prayers of my sisters for most of my healing. I wouldn't be here without them
Jose, the way I see it. You don't have to believe in Fatima or any private revalation as long as you abide by the One, Holy Catholic, Apostolic Faith and live in the state of grace according to one state in life. We as Catholic's are not required to believe in any private revelation as we are in the case of Catholic Dogma. With regard to the consecration.. just look at what happened in Frace in 1789. The King of Frace was ordered by St Margaret Mary Alacoque in 1689 to consecrate the Kingdom of Frace to the Sacred Heart of Jesus( nor he or his sons performed the consecration). 100 years to the day the King of Frace was relived of power and eventually was executed by the Third estate. I see something silimar between the revelations of Saint Margaret Mary Alacoque and Fatima. The Sacred Heart of Jesus and the Immaculate Heart of Mary are intertwined and I believe if the consecration is not done by 2017 we all will face what took place during what has become known as" the reign of terror". It is your choice weather to believe in Fatima or not, but we are clearly living in extraordinary times... for me it is better to believe in Fatima than not. O Mary, conceived without sin, pray for me a sinner.
On May 13, 1846 the United States Bishops petitioned the Holy See to make Mary Immaculate the Patroness of the United States and they decided to make the Conception of the Blessed Virgin a solemn feast day (This was 12 years before the Virgin told Bernadette Soubirous that she was the Immaculate Conception). The bishops wrote, "We take this occasion, brethren, to communicate to you the determination, unanimously adopted by us, to place ourselves and all entrusted to our charge throughout the United States, under the special patronage of the holy Mother of God, whose Immaculate Conception is venerated by the piety of the faithful throughout the Catholic Church. By the aid of her prayers, we entertain the confident hope that we will be strengthened to perform the arduous duties of our ministry, and that you will be enabled to practice the sublime virtues, of which her life presents the most perfect example." Although that proclamation was not called a consecration, it was an act of entrustment that has spiritually benefitted the USA and although it is in moral decline at this time, the Virgin Mary in locution to Father Gobbi stated "...soon you will flower again, when my Immaculate Heart will have its triumph, and your light will return to shine with such intensity that it will draw all those who live in this great continent."(May 17, 1987) Consecration to the Virgin Mary is very important for the times we live in.
All true private revelation adds nothing new to the Deposit of Faith for all public revelation was completed upon the death of the last Apostle [Jude 3]. Private revelation [prophecy] merely brings to light and helps understand the signs of the times in which we live. Thus Fatima, was ordained by God for this generation to call the world back to conversion. So far as the heart of the Fatima message goes, meaning prayer, penance, reparation and the compassionate Immaculate Heart of Mary — the Church's approval here is absolute. No Catholic is free to reject these key aspects of Christian belief and practise. The Church's judgment here is infallible because these are matters that affect the very core of our Christian and Catholic life. Pope John Paul II made a public statement about the Message of Fatima: On May 13, 1982, while in Fatima, the Holy Father stated in his sermon the following words, "the Message of Fatima is so deeply rooted in the Gospel and the whole of tradition, that the Church feels that the Message imposes a commitment on her. I have respect for those who doubt. Perhaps I am misinterpreting what you say but I detect a degree of cynicism in your writings concerning explicit actions that God willed through our Lady for the Church perform in His Holy name; namely the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. This is love for God: to obey his commands. And his commands are not burdensome, (I John 5:3) I would say that no Catholic has a right to despise the prophecies of Fatima for in doing so you cause offence and also you might be very well opposing the will of God Himself. It is true that you do not have to give consent to private revelation but to criticise or oppose it is a different thing. Public, prophetic revelation must not be despised. The Virgin Mary's prophecy was confirmed by a public miracle and authenticated by a whole line of Popes. Also, its predictions have come true. So, while belief in the Message of Fatima may not strictly be required of Catholics as an article of faith, one would be very foolish to disregard such an obviously authentic message from Heaven. As St. Paul taught: "Despise not prophecies, but prove all things; hold fast to that which is good." (1 Thess. 5:20-21) The prophecy of Fatima has been proven worthy of belief. We should not despise it, but rather hold fast to what Our Lady told us at Fatima.
Hey RCM, that is pretty scary stuff!! I don't think I would have returned to the apartment, ever. Thanks for your clarifications on what occurred. Thanks also for the info on Stanislovsky -- I did not know that and it is enlightening. It also makes sense as to why so many actors are leading dark lives. I've learned something new today.
You seem to be putting all the blame on the popes, but part of the fatima message is for catholics to practice the first Saturday devotion as an act of reparation. Perhaps if more people had stepped up to the plate all of these years and committed themselves to the first saturday devotion (myself included), the world just might look different and Russia may not have spread her errors as far. And also we should be praying for our popes to do this consecration...popes and priests are human like anyone else, and need our prayers. But all us catholics are partly responsible for the Fatima requests not being fulfilled. in terms of how you can't wrap your head around how God could let WWII happen just because the consecration was not done. well, sometimes we just have to admit we are not smart enough to fully understand God and His ways. There are some things we just have to wait until we get to heaven to fully understand. But it takes humility to accept and admit this...
Pope Leo had his famous vision in 1884 when satan asked for 100 years to do his worst. Our Lady at Fatima said the consecration of Russia to her Immaculate Heart would be done but late. Ok. The vision in 1884 occurred on October 13th. 33 years to the day was the final apparition at Fatima. And the consecration that Sr. Lucia said was accepted by heaven was made by Bl. John Paul II on March 25, 1984 almost 100 years after Pope Leo's vision. This consecration is said to have prevented a nuclear war that would have occurred in 1985. It also ended the communist stranglehold in many countries. BUT we have not done our part which was also part of the package. How many pray the rosary daily? How many have truly made the 5 First Saturdays in reparation to the Immaculate Heart? Just as the final miracle of Fatima on Oct. 13, 1917 was said not to have been as stupendous due to the disbelief of many and also how the children were treated. And so the results of the consecration may not have been what they could have been due to the small response to Our Lady's request. What do you think?
Is, (God forgive me) our heavenly Father so ... that He would punish Christianity and humanity because this consecration did not happen? God did not punish us with WWII or Russia, He knows all and knew where we were headed. He gave dominion over the earth to men. In His great love and mercy for us, He sent His Beloved Mother to us with with an answer to our problems, telling us how to avoid these wars which we bring about ourselves. One good example of this also is Immaculee's story of the Rwanda genocide "If Only We had Listened". The answer is simple enough, we must change ourselves, our own hearts first, accept the King of Peace in our hearts, with prayer and penance{fulfilling our station in life, our daily duties} with the sacraments of our Church, we must change and help change those around us. We catholics are meant to be the salt of the earth and it is we who have failed.
Jose, I'm going to put my 2 cents worth in here just for kicks.... If God knows everything and the church says that the Woman Clothed with the Sun IS THE BLESSED VIRGIN MARY, AND the Church and the Popes, Saints etc. have said that we are living in the 'end of times'...AND the Popes , saints etc. have said that 'these are the times of Mary' AND she keeps appearing all over the place , weeping tears of blood etc. WHY WOULDN'T YOU TRUST THE MOTHER TO GUIDE YOU? I don't know one great priest that doesn't have a great devotion to our Lady under 'whatever title' they feel drawn to....the Pope now, has a great devotion to 'Our Lady undoer of Knots'---which is an apparition.... It is ONLY the Catholic Church that has indulgences AND devotions....NO OTHER CHURCH OFFERS THESE PARTICULAR GRACES TO 'help the people of God speed up the process of sanctification and grace through the heart of the MOTHER TO THE SON....'
Magdalen... Please see Mac post above: 5. Didn’t the Pope succeed in performing the consecration of Russia in 1984? A: No. As Sister Lucy herself declared in a September 1985 interview,the attempted consecration of March 25, 1984, did not satisfy Our Lady’s requests because “there was no participation of the bishops and there was no mention of Russia.” In consecrating the world in general on that date without mentioning Russia, the Holy Father himself acknowledged in the presence of tens of thousands of witnesses, both during and after the ceremony, that the people of Russia were still “awaiting our consecration and confiding.” The next day these statements were reported in the Pope’s own newspaper, L’Osservatore Romano, and the Italian Bishops’ publication, Avvenire. There is much much more on this in the book i just read called Suddenly & Unexpectedly by T. Michael Fahy, which I recommend (more on this in the Book thread), which goes extensively into the fraud in what was given to the public, reportedly by Sister Lucia, which never took place.
It's so sad but I am more and more convinced that the Consecration of Russia has not been completed. Even if it has , what harm in redoing the whole hog just in case and do it EXACTLY as Our Lady asked. Russia clearly has such a huge influence in world events at the moment, for instance look at Syria and Iran.
I would recommend the book 'the fourth secret of Fatima' by Antonio Socci.[available in english] An Italian journalist, vatican journalist I think. He was sick and tired of ultra traditionalists who kept going on and on about the third secret [mostly Fr Gruner] conspiracy cover up by the vatican ,so he went into bat for the church and put an end to their nonsense. However the more he studied their arguements the more he could see the truth. It ended in a quite public brawl with Cardinal Bertone and makes fascinating reading.
I support your view and this interview does too http://www.ewtn.com/library/ISSUES/ZUGLUCIA.HTM Pope John Paul II didn't know how many bishops consecrated at the same time http://medjugorje.ie/bishop_hnilica.html
RCM mentioned WItchcraft/ New Age/ Satanism in the entertainment industry. This drew my attention because of something incredible that is happening in the UK at the moment. A very prominent media personality (and supposedly devout Catholic/philanthropist) Jimmy Saville died. After his death accusations were made against him of prolific sexual assaults on under aged girls. Now it turns out he assaulted literally hundreds of girls over decades. But because he was so powerful and famous no one could ever stop it or even want to stop it, even though rumours of his predatory activities were widespread. But the police continue to investigate and famous entertainer after famous entertainer are being exposed some of them world famous. Rolf Harris Jimmy Tarbuck In fact it has gotten so bad that I begin to wonder who was NOT involved in all this. But every time I hear of underage sex, the word, 'Satanism springs to mind. It reminds me of the old rumours about Satanism and Roman Polanski.
There is something about the secrets and prophecies of Fatima I would like to discuss here. The prophecies regarding WWII and the consecration of Russia belong to the second secret. The first two secrets were revealed in 1941 in a document written by Lúcia, at the request of José da Silva, Bishop of Leiria, to assist with the publication of a new edition of a book on Jacinta. When asked by the Bishop of Leiria in 1943 to reveal the third secret, Lúcia struggled for a short period, being "not yet convinced that God had clearly authorized her to act." However, in October 1943 the bishop of Leiria ordered her to put it in writing. Lúcia then wrote the secret down and sealed it in an envelope not to be opened until 1960, when "it will appear clearer." The text of the third secret was officially released by Pope John Paul II in 2000. The second secret was a statement that World War I would end and goes on to predict another war, World War II during the reign of Pope Pius XI, should men continue offending God and should Russia not convert. The second half requests that Russia be consecrated to the Immaculate Heart. From this, it is clear that the prophecy about WWII and Russia was a secret not revealed by Lúcia until 1941. Here is the complete text from the Vatican web site: We can see that humanity was not warned by God or the Virgin about WWII or Russia until 1941, it was a secret only told to Lúcia that God was going to punish humanity with a terrible war if people did not cease to offend Him. The consecration of Russia belongs to the same secret and it was neither disclosed by Lúcia until 1941 (after WWII had already begun). In this secret the Virgin said that “to prevent this” (God that he is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father) Russia should be consecrated to the Immaculate Heart. But if Lúcia did not published the request of the Virgin until 1941 how could the whole thing be avoided? If the only people knowing about the secret before 1941 were some Church officials or the Pope (something that it is not known) then is the Pope the only one who can be blamed (as F. Amorth does) for not having fulfilled the requests from heaven, and for the violent death of 25 million people and the spreading of atheism, abortion and persecution of the Church... (does it make sense? No to me). But a lot of controversy here as WWII had already started when the world knew about this secret. Why was this secret not revealed before 1939? or even before the election of Pius XI in 1922? Supposedly, the Virgin named this Pope by his election name already in 1917. It would have been overwhelmingly convincing if Lúcia would have revealed the secret before 1922!! Why prophecies are never revealed on time that no doubt can arise about them? Independently of the theological arguments in the secrets that I cannot understand, do you see also the other reasons why I doubt?
Jose said.. Is it true that if humanity would have been more religious or would have "reacted" to the dance of the Sun in Fatima God would have impaired the violent death of 25 million people during WWII?Sorry but I do not understand the theology behind.If humanity became more religious and'reacted' then yes Jose. Its pretty simple actually.No need to be a theologian.There are examples of penance turning away the wrath of God in the Old Testament. World War is a chastisement from God.If the Holy Father does as requested we may still avoid the 'ANNIHILATION OF NATIONS' which is soon upon us.
