That is exactly what Fr. Amorth is saying. And it is true. Mary told us at Fatima how to stem the tide of evil with prayer. Pope Leo XIII saw the devil being given full sway for a century. This is our century. Mary came to tell us what weapons would be most effective in this battle. Thousands of people saw the Miracle of the Sun in Fatima. The pictures were carried in newspapers all over the world. Thousands were aware of what needed to be done, and knew what they needed to share with others. Just because Popes make some major mistakes doesn't mean that they were not Holy men. They, like us, can be swayed by others. Rather than viewing it as a punishment from God because the Popes didn't act, I see this as Satan using all his powers to stop an act that would destroy his influence. If you read Father Amorth's books, this is clearly what he believes.
I suppose it sounds terrible but I have always wanted to witness an exorcism. Though I suppose its not too good to see something like that out of curiousity. My Spiritual Director, Fr Bernard did one once and told me all about it, I was fascinated. I admire people like Fr Amaroth immensely , this stuff takes real courage.
I've never seen an exorcism. But I've seen satanic ceremonies performed in my apartment by my room mates in grad school. It took a lot of prayer, and years of work and study, and many confessions to overcome the influence of those days. I still feel the influence sometimes, and just have to pray some more. The sad thing is, I've never found a priest who would offer help with an exorcism, although it might have saved time. What Fr. Amorth says about the need for more exorcists is very true. And since prayers never hurt, maybe priests should be more open to offering prayers of deliverance when asked. I know my current Pastor, Father Damien Cook will do this for me, and has at times of crisis.
RantingCatholicMom, then your answer is that due to the failure of the last 9 Popes that did not consecrate specifically Russia to our Blessed Mother, atheism, abortion and all those bad things were spreading through the world. Right? Sorry, but it does not make sense to me. That was a private revelation and I cannot see God punishing or, if you like, "not-avoiding" the bad to the whole of His children just because a couple of people did not accomplish a request from a private revelation. Nor can I accept the development of the WWII being avoidable by God and occurring just as a general consequence of our sins (the humanity) and not of those who really pursued it.
Well, often things that seem small but are really big Jose. Look at the archangel Gabriel who was sent to a peasant girl in Nazareth with a simply request, that she should have a child. Now imagine Mary had just said, 'No', what would the consequences have been? All this from a small, 'Yes'. I am curious do you not believe in the apparitions at Fatima at all? Or just part of it?
Its kind of ironic, RCM that Satanists believe in Lucifer and very often Catholics don't . Even most Catholic priests don't in any real meaningful way that impacts on lives. Padre Pio was asked one time if their were many devils in the world. He looked up to the sky and said ,'So many they block out the sun.'
You know me, Padraig, I am agnostic regarding apparitions and the Church does not force me to believe them.
No you do not have to. But it reminds me of having a Christmas tree without the decorations. Kinda sad, without the magic. But one day you will meet her yourself in person and all the decorations in the tree of your heart will light up all at once.
Now, seriously, I have a problem with the theological derivations of this quote and of this one: I have to leave now, I will check later your answers...
Jose, What I'm saying is that these were not private revelations. The miracle of the sun was witnessed by more people than the Resurrection, the Ascension, probably even more than the crowds at Pentecost. It was public so that the media would spread the message of our Lady. I do not believe that the Lord or Our Lady have stopped communicating to us since Biblical times. That would wipe out all of the teachings of the Fathers of our church and all of the Saints. Fatima was a very public revelation, not a private one.
Padraig, The devil is very real, and those of us who do not engage in the battle run the risk of being cornered in our comfortable places with out the arms to protect ourselves. Yes, even priests.
Stephen, I don't get what you are trying to do by starting another argument. You spoke volumes of your position and Mark Mallet did as well. At this point you are not going to convince anyone your direction by a fruitless persute of arguments. Really, there is nothing else to say on this subject that has not already been said. That is why Mark left the discussion.
jose, saying NO to God has it's consequences. Now every Pope from 1917 on has done, or not done, whatever they felt they could or should do in reference to the consercration to the Immaculte Heart of Mary. As Father Amorth stated, the consercration as Mary requested has not been done. Our Lord told St. Lucia that it would come, but it would be late. Late for what? Our Lady of Garabandal told us what "late" means, as she made clear to the seers of Garabandal that Communism would return, but this time throughout the whole world and when it is at its worst, the Warning, (when everyone will see their soul as God sees it) would come.
Mark, Padraig restarted this up yesterday by saying Mark was right- as well as suggesting falsely that I got personal, so I have asked him a simple question. I am just waiting for the answer that he seems unable to give
I was thinking and praying about this when I was walking the dog there, Jose and my mind went back to God asking Issac to sacrifice his only son. Genesis 22:2 Then God said, "Take your son, your only son, whom you love--Isaac--and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you." Isaac was asked to step out in faith, just as the Bishops of the World and the Holy Father is/was being asked to step out in faith. It seems to me that the crisis of faith in the Church, especially the Church in the West is one than turns from the Mystical towards the 'rationale' and the perfect remedy for this is Devotion to Our Lady.If the Bishops had ,'Sacrificed' their own lack of Faith on the altar of the Consecration then the doorway to God, to Heaven would have been opened for them as it was to Isaac. The irony is that on the one hand they claim it to be a very small thing yet although they say it is small they raise a thousand 'sensible' objections to doing it....
1. What is meant by “the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary”? A: At Fatima, on July 13, 1917, Our Lady told Sister Lucy that “God is about to punish the world for its crimes, by means of war, famine, and persecutions of the Church and of the Holy Father. To prevent this, I shall come to ask for the Communions of reparation and for the consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart ... In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph.” Our Lady’s request is very simple: Russia—the fount of so much evil in the 20th Century—must be set apart and made sacred by its consecration to the Mother of God. 2. Why is it necessary to consecrate Russia in particular? A: Because God wills it. As Our Lady told Sister Lucy at Fatima: “Russia will be the instrument of chastisement chosen by Heaven to punish the whole world if we do not beforehand obtain the conversion of that poor nation ...” And as Sister Lucy disclosed in her published memoirs and letters, Our Lord Himself confided to her that He would not convert Russia unless the consecration were done, “Because I want My whole Church to recognize that consecration as a triumph of the Immaculate Heart of Mary, so that it may extend its cult later on, and put the devotion to this Immaculate Heart beside the devotion to My Sacred Heart.” Sister Lucy has explained that because Russia is a well-defined territory, the conversion of Russia after its consecration to the Immaculate Heart would be undeniable proof that the conversion resulted from the consecration and nothing else. The establishment in the world of devotion to the Immaculate Heart would thus be confirmed by God Himself in the most dramatic manner. 3. How exactly is this consecration supposed to be accomplished? A: True to Her word at Fatima, Our Lady appeared to Sister Lucy at Tuy, Spain, on June 13, 1929, to say that: “The moment has come when God asks the Holy Father to make, in union with all the bishops of the world, the consecration of Russia to My Immaculate Heart, promising to save it by this means.” The phrase “by this means” is crucial, because it signifies that the consecration is not merely a symbol of the coming conversion of Russia, but the very means by which it will be accomplished. Thus, without the act of consecration there will be no conversion of Russia, and without the conversion of Russia, Russia’s errors will continue to infest the world, producing the persecution of the Church, the martyrdom of the good, the suffering of the Holy Father and ultimately the annihilation of nations forewarned at Fatima. Over the ensuing decades, Sister Lucy has explained time and again that the act of consecration requires that the Pope “choose a date upon which His Holiness commands the bishops of the entire world to make, each in his own Cathedral, and at the same time as the Pope, a solemn and public ceremony of Reparation and consecration of Russia ...” 4. But isn’t Fatima just a private apparition no Catholic has to believe? A: Far from it. The apparitions at Fatima were confirmed by a public miracle witnessed by 70,000 people—the Miracle of the Sun. Pope John Paul II himself declared at Fatima in 1982 that the Message of Fatima“imposes an obligation on the Church”, and he publicly attributed to Our Lady of Fatima his escape from death in the assassination attempt of May 13, 1981—the very anniversary of Our Lady of Fatima. 5. Didn’t the Pope succeed in performing the consecration of Russia in 1984? A: No. As Sister Lucy herself declared in a September 1985 interview,the attempted consecration of March 25, 1984, did not satisfy Our Lady’s requests because “there was no participation of the bishops and there was no mention of Russia.” In consecrating the world in general on that date without mentioning Russia, the Holy Father himself acknowledged in the presence of tens of thousands of witnesses, both during and after the ceremony, that the people of Russia were still “awaiting our consecration and confiding.” The next day these statements were reported in the Pope’s own newspaper, L’Osservatore Romano, and the Italian Bishops’ publication, Avvenire. 6. Wasn’t the consecration of the world by the Pope in 1984 enough to fulfill Our Lady’s request? A: No. For her entire life since the apparitions of Our Lady of Fatima, Sister Lucy has insisted that Russia must be specifically mentioned. For example, in a 1978 interview with her confidant, Father Umberto Pasquale, and in a letter to Father Pasquale in 1980, Sister Lucy was asked the question: “Has Our Lady ever spoken to you about the consecration of the world?” During the interview, Sister Lucy answered: “No, Father Umberto! Never! At the Cova da Iria in 1917 Our Lady promised: ‘I shall come to ask for the consecration of Russia ...’ In 1929, at Tuy, as She had promised, Our Lady came to tell me that the moment had come to ask the Holy Father for the consecration of that country.” And, in the 1980 letter (dated April 13 of that year), Sister Lucy confirmed what she had said in the interview, stating in her own handwriting that “Our Lady of Fatima, in Her request, referred only to the consecration of Russia.” Both the 1978 interview and the 1980 letter (photographically reproduced) were published in the May 12, 1982, Italian edition of L’Osservatore Romano. Does not our own common sense tell us that if Our Lady of Fatima requested the consecration of Russia, then Russia must at least be mentioned in the act of consecration? We might also reasonably ask what possible reason there could be for not uttering one simple word—Russia—in the act of consecrating Russia. No explanation has ever been given for this mysterious omission in the attempted consecrations of 1982 and 1984.
7. Isn’t it too late for the consecration of Russia anyway, since Russia’s errors have already spread throughout the world? A: No! As Our Lord Himself confided to Sister Lucy at Rianjo in August of 1931: “They did not wish to heed My request! ... Like the King of France, they will repent of it, and they will do it, but it will be late.Russia will already have spread its errors in the world ...” So the consecration will ultimately be done, and, as Our Lady promised at Fatima, “In the end, My Immaculate Heart will triumph. The Holy Father will consecrate Russia to Me, which will be converted, and a period of peace will be given to mankind.” Our Lord Himself confided to Sister Lucy, regarding the consecration, that “It is never too late to have recourse to Jesus and Mary.” 8. What is so urgent about the consecration now? A: As Our Lady warned at Fatima: “If My requests are not granted, Russia will spread its errors throughout the world, raising up wars and persecutions against the Church. The good will be martyred, the Holy Father will have much to suffer, and various nations will be annihilated.” We have yet to witness the annihilation of nations foretold at Fatima. Must we wait until it happens before we finally do exactly what Our Lady commanded us to do in God’s name? In view of the accelerating decline of morality and the disintegration of social order around the world, simple prudence should tell us that we cannot delay even one moment longer the consecration of Russia, and only Russia, to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. 9. But if the Pope feels he has done the consecration, what right does anyone have to question him? A: The Pope has never publicly stated to all the members of the Church that he has performed the consecration of Russia to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. On the contrary, the Pope’s words as quoted inL’Osservatore Romano demonstrate that he knows the consecration has yet to be done. In view of this, the faithful have every right to petition their Pope for the definitive consecration of Russia. In fact, the God-given right of the faithful to petition the Supreme Pontiff in matters affecting the good of the Church was infallibly defined as Catholic doctrine by two ecumenical councils: Vatican I (1870) and the Second Council of Lyons (1274), and is also guaranteed by the current Code of Canon Law (Canon 212). The good of the Church and the safety of the whole world demand absolute certainty that the requests of Our Lady of Fatima have been carried out. The matter will be settled only when the definitive consecration is performed, or when the Pope declares in an official, binding way to the whole Church that he has already performed the consecration in a manner sufficient to satisfy Our Lady’s requests. Neither event has occurred, and therefore the matter remains open to petitions by the faithful, who have every right to address a matter of such obvious importance for the Church and the world.
Jose - I notice the wink but as a brother in Christ & in Christian charity I am concerned for your thinking in regards to prophecy. You are too dismissive of Fatima because it does not fit in line with your thinking of God. You cannot just dismiss Fatima because it does not fit into your world-view. God punishes cities and nations because of sin [Sodom & Gommorah] and he spares cities and nations who repent [Nineveh]. Our Lady revealed at Fatima that the wars were punishments for the sins of the age. God does punish sin because God is Just. The first secret of Fatima also confirms Catholic teaching that individual sinners are punished in an everlasting fire'. ‘You have seen hell where the souls of poor sinners go'. Do not offend Our Lord any more; He is already much offended,” We are free to reject the prophecies of Fatima but we do not possess the right to do so. For there is nothing contrary to Catholic teaching and belief in authentic apparitions and prophecy. We are so influenced by modern ideas and modernism that we find it difficult to discern the workings of God and thus have a false understanding of freedom. The mystical is as real as the physical for we worship a God the Maker of all things visible and invisible. The Justice of God is the same as the Mercy of God. If you believe in His Mercy then you must believe in His Justice. He who receives pardon, says St. Augustine, is pardoned through the pure mercy of God; and they who are chastised, are justly punished. Apparitions add nothing to the deposit of faith because all has been revealed but what they do is give us perspective on the Faith for the times that we are living in. St Paul tells us that 'he who speaks prophecies speaks to men for edification and encouragement and consolation'. In addition he warns us 'not to despise or dismiss prophecies' or 'treat them with contempt'. In dismissing the words of Fatima you are in danger of doing exactly that. Sister Lucia has been raised to the altar of holiness and her words and actions are in line with the teachings of the Catholic faith. St Paul speaks of a conversion of the mind that is so important to understanding the workings of God. For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit. To set the mind on the flesh is death, but to set the mind on the Spirit is life and peace.Letter to the Romans 8:2-6
RCM, what was the background about this? Does this kind of thing happen more often than most of us are aware of? It seems like a huge step to take to actively worship the idiot downstairs. I have to admit that I wonder how many people actively engage in this kind of activity.
I think the great trouble with the Church is that its mystical heart is dying. Without this beating heart of Holiness and love what are we left with but an organisation, a set of structures and laws? Something apparently alive on the outside but dead and stale on the inside. Devotion to Our Blessed Lady is the perfect antidote I believe to this death of the holy. When I was asked in prayer to start this forum I did not want to, because Our Lady showed me that she wanted to concentrate on prayer and the mystical and I knew this would by its very nature mean I would reveal things about my own mystical life which I would much, much rather have kept quiet. I have found in my own prayer life that Devotion to the Blessed Virgin, The Mystical Rose has opened my eyes to a world beyond this one, that what we think of as the @real world' is nothing of the kind. As the poet Fr Manley Hopkins wrote, 'The world is charged with the beauty of God...' Gerard Manley Hopkins (1844–89). Poems. 1918. 7. God’s Grandeur THE WORLD is charged with the grandeur of God. It will flame out, like shining from shook foil; It gathers to a greatness, like the ooze of oil Crushed. Why do men then now not reck his rod? Generations have trod, have trod, have trod; 5 And all is seared with trade; bleared, smeared with toil; And wears man’s smudge and shares man’s smell: the soil Is bare now, nor can foot feel, being shod. And for all this, nature is never spent; There lives the dearest freshness deep down things; 10 And though the last lights off the black West went Oh, morning, at the brown brink eastward, springs— Because the Holy Ghost over the bent World broods with warm breast and with ah! bright wings. I think this is what Mary intended with the Consecration to open our mystical eyes to see, not with the head but with the heart...
