Fr.Gobbi's Messages-An Eschatological Analysis In the light of the recent discussions concerning the error of millenarianism and the obvious support for the theory promoted by Mark Mallett and seemingly a few people on this forum, I would like to show how the idea that modern prophetic mystics are saying the same thing is not true. The revelations to Fr Gobbi-( and I leave my personal opinion out of it on their authenticity) do not support this view –even though Fr Gobbi himself supported this millennial view. Nowhere in the revelations does Our Lady make any mention of Revelation ch 20. Nowhere does she state a temporal era with an end is coming. What she does say is exactly in line with the version of events as contained in the Catechism and the teachings of the Pope-of which I have promoted recently. In fact at this point, I would stress one of the biggest signs of authenticity is that Our Lady doesn’t say anything like Fr Gobbi’s own interpretation of the messages (see his June 24 1996 speech on the Second Coming at the MMP USA website) she states no first resurrection of the saints and no millennium. If Fr Gobbi was making it up, surely he would have made sure the message fitted his interpretation! 1) Second Coming-spiritual or physical? The condemned theory of millenarianism says that Jesus will reign on earth physically for a thousand years before the end.. One of the ways supporters of this theory get round it is to state it is a spiritual manifestation an”intermediate coming”.In the book, Our Lady states on December 8 1990:Live in love and holiness because Jesus Christ, our Redeemer, our saviour and our King is about to come to you in the splendour of His glorious Body" Also on April 14,1990,Holy Saturday the Blessed Virgin stated:" Watch with Me in expectation and be sure in the hope that Jesus will return on the clouds of Heaven, in the splendour of His glorious Body" Therefore, immediately to suggest these revelations do not refer to the end of the world would be millenarianism in its purest form .There is no room for manoeuvre here. Jesus coming in His glorious body is prophesied as about to happen. 2) Another aspect that concerns the ultimate end of the world is the defeat of satan. The era of peace before the end theory states that satan will be bound during it ( to a great extent) then let loose for one last assault on the Church. However in the book, the Blessed Virgin clearly states that satan will be defeated forever at the end of this trial. On April 16, 1995, Our Lady stated:" But the moment is at hand in which the Risen Christ will manifest Himself in all His power. Evil will be destroyed, Satan will be defeated forever" In a message entitled "The Holy City" on December 8, 1992, Mary stated:"Jesus will return in glory, to bring back the whole of creation to the full splendour of its new earthly paradise.The sinful city will now have vanished and so the whole of creation will open up with joy to welcome the Holy City, the new Jerusalem come down from Heaven". Also in the same message it is stated:"Finally, the Holy City must gather together humanity which has been redeemed and saved, after it has been completely freed from the slavery to Satan, sin and evil". How can this be if there is a time still to come in the future in which Satan will be allowed to test humanity again. The Blessed Virgin clearly teaches that Satan's defeat soon will be complete, and forever. This is in total opposition to Mark Mallett stating that sin will remain in the era to come. Our Lady states no such thing. “Completely freed from the slavery to Satan, sin and evil. No temporal era there then. 3 If we are facing the final judgement soon , then we obviously turn our thoughts to the Resurrection from the dead. The Blessed Virgin also addresses this area in the book. We know the times to come are called the "New Times", a phrase used often by Pope John Paul the Great (New in theological language means final perfection). On March 29, 1991, Mary said:"He is the man of the new times. Because it is only in Him that all who have lived, died, been buried and fallen away to dry dust will rise again".There is a clear message here that the new times bring forth the raising of the dead, otherwise why would Our Lady link the new times with Jesus ability to raise the dead? On April 15, 1995, we read: "It is the Saturday of its long sepulchre (humanity).Soon it will come forth from the tomb in which it is lying, when Jesus will come back in glory and will lead it into the new garden of His Resurrection. The great miracle of the Divine mercy is in preparation. It will repeat for the whole of humanity that which came about for my Son Jesus." Another aspect of this mystery is the freeing of humanity from the corruption of death for those still alive .Mary stated on September 8, 1990:"Then the whole of creation, freed from the slavery of sin and death will know the splendour of a second earthly paradise in which God will dwell with you, will wipe away every tear,and there will no longer be day or night for you because the earlier things have passed away and your light will be that of the Lamb and of the new Jerusalem come down from Heaven onto the earth, ready as a bride for her Bridegroom." Also on November 1st,1989, the Blessed Virgin said:" there will no longer be death, mourning, weeping or sighing, because the former things have passed away."If we compare these two statements with the Catechism we can see how they refer to the same event: "At the end of time, the Kingdom of God will come in its fullness. After the universal judgment, the righteous will reign for ever with Christ, glorified in body and soul. The universe itself will be renewed:The Church . . . will receive her perfection only in the glory of heaven, when will come the time of the renewal of all things. At that time, together with the human race, the universe itself, which is so closely related to man and which attains its destiny through him, will be perfectly re-established in Christ.631""In this new universe, the heavenly Jerusalem, God will have his dwelling among men.634 "He will wipe away every tear from their eyes, and death shall be no more, neither shall there be mourning nor crying nor pain any more, for the former things have passed away."635 So we see Our Lady restates exactly what the catechism says refers to the era of peace after the Last Judgment, Just as I have tried to show in the papal magisterium. One further passage refers to the end of history and time as we know it. On December 24, 1997 we read: "Enter with me into the fullness of times, which will come about when Jesus returns in the splendour of His divine glory. This His first coming reaches its full significance only in His second coming. This Holy Night is directed towards the radiant day without nightfall. My Divine Babe, whom you are now contemplating in the manger, weeping and trembling because of the cold, will come back one day in the power of His divine glory and will bring to their fullness both time and history. Time and history will have their fulfilment; with His divine and glorious presence, He will make all things new" continued on next page...
At no stage does Our Lady mention two aspects of the Day of the Lord as Mark Mallett teaches. “His second birth is at hand. With Me, live through the final hours of this second advent: in confidence, in prayer, in suffering which is welcomed and enlightened, in waiting for the great day of the Lord to come soon” (24 Dec 1983) Also just a clear is the message of Sept 8 1990 in which She states” I am the dawn which announces the stupendous event of your salvation, and who prepares all of you for the coming of the great day of the Lord” (at this point let us remember Hebrews 9:28 so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him”) Later in the same message the whole idea of a new age, new times is explained as pertaining to the period after the end of the world “In fact the immense sorrow of these last times is preparing for the birth of a new age, of new times, in which Jesus will come in the splendor of His glory and will establish His reign in the world. Then the whole of creation, freed from the slavery of sin and death will know the splendour of a second earthly paradise in which God will dwell with you, will wipe away every tear,and there will no longer be day or night for you because the earlier things have passed away and your light will be that of the Lamb and of the new Jerusalem come down from Heaven onto the earth, ready as a bride for her Bridegroom” Message 453 also reiterates this point “The new era, which I am preparing for you, coincides with the defeat of Satan and of his universal dominion. All of his power is destroyed. He is bound with all the evil spirits, and enclosed in Hell, from which he will not be able to get out to do harm in the world. In it Christ reigns, in the Splendour of his glorious Body”-Again here if this does NOT refer to the final coming and time after the last judgment, it is pure millenarianism condemned by the Church. Also Our Lady is absolutely clear: it is the end of Satan. The coming of the Antichrist. In the view of promoters of the temporary Kingdom, the Antichrist comes not as the end of the world as defined clearly in the Catechsim and Magisterium of the Popes but before the supposed millennium. What does Our Lady tell Fr Gobbi? “They are the times foretold by Divine Scripture as those of the great apostasy and of the coming of the Antichrist. They are the times of great tribulation and innumerable sufferings for everyone, which will lead you to live through the final events in preparation for the second coming of Jesus in glory” (May 19 1991) Also in message 485, entitled The End of Times, the Antichrist is explained as one of the signs of the end. Matthew chapter 24 is continually used by Our Lady as a biblical reference point for this message, and as Pope John Paul stated in the general audience of 27 April 1988, this text refers to the end of the world. In fact I would urge the reading of this general audience because the Pope gives a very detailed explanation concerning the coming of the Kingdom and the fulfillment of the Our Father http://www.vatican.va/holy_father/john_paul_ii/audiences/alpha/data/aud19880427en.html The triumph of the Immaculate Heart. Does it lead to a temporal Kingdom or the definitive coming of the Kingdom at the end of the world? “You are living out the mystery of this second advent, which is preparing you to receive Jesus, when He returns to you on the clouds of Heaven. Only then will the second advent, through which you are living be fulfilled. Then time will reach its fullness. Then the Triumph of your Heavenly Mother will have its triumph in the definitive and glorious triumph of Her Son Jesus.” (24 Dec 1997) In Her very last message, Our Lady said “Everything has been revealed to you: my plan has been foretold to you especially in its marvelous and victorious fulfillment.I have announced to you the Triumph of My Immaculate Heart in the world.In the end my Immaculate Heart will triumph (Our Lady’s emphasis). This will come about in the greatest triumph of Jesus who will bring into the world His glorious reign of love, justice and peace and will make all things new. Open your hearts to hope.Throw open the doors to Christ who is coming to you in glory”. (31 Dec 1997) What is clear and absolutely unambiguous is that Our Lady states the triumph comes at the end (why did she emphasize it?)Time will reach its fullness and Jesus comes in His glorious Body-all in the same event of the Triumph. This is exactly the scenario I proposed in my book Heralds of the second Coming-confirmed by cardinals, bishops and professors of theology. In the revelations of Our Lady to Fr Gobbi there is no mention of an era of peace to come before the end of the world. This is confirmed by Her saying continually that Satan will be defeated forever at the end if this purification. She never once proclaims a first resurrection for the saints; she speaks of the complete and definitive coming of Jesus in His glorious Body-therefore its either millenarian heresy(in which case the Church would have condemned these messages long ago, or they refer to the end of the world. In my book I have a quote from Cardinal Ratzinger in a letter to Bishop Pavel Hnilica in which he states the 3rd secret of Fatima refers to the persecution until the end of the world. One last point. There is mention of a Eucharistic reign. In the book Our Lady states “This new era will coincide with the greatest triumph of the Eucharistic reign of Jesus” (26 Feb 1991). In the papal magisterium and the Tradition of the Church there is no mention of a Eucharistic reign which could be viewed as a separate era from the new heaven and new earth, or in the present age. So what do Our Lady’s words refer to? The closest papal teaching to this comes from an ad limina address to Bishops of the USA on Dec 9 1988” Any consideration of the eschatological dimension of the Church must necessarily include the Holy Eucharist. The Church constantly finds her nourishment in the Sacrament of the Body and Blood of the glorified Christ. At the end of time, the saving power of the Eucharist will attain its full effect when the holiness of the Church will be complete and the entire universe will be perfectly restored in Christ. Meanwhile, we “proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes”.The renewal of the Sacrifice of Christ on Calvary is at the same time the banquet of the Kingdom.” Therefore the pope places this idea in the firm context of the renewal of the Universe to come after the Last Judgment. In reality it is symbolic of the eschatological Banquet of the Kingdom of God. It cannot possibly be viewed as anything else, and Our Lady does not suggest another interpretation to it in the book. In fact in message 505, after giving a similar statement on the Eucharistic reign, she immediately says “towards these new heavens and this new earth your Heavenly Mother, who is gathering you today from every part of the world, to prepare you for the Lord who is coming, is leading you” (21 Nov 1993)
Could you then reply why revelation talks specifically of a thousand year reign? I don't speak against the catechism I would just want to know how we can explain away the possibility of a thousand year reign?
quote="our lady of confidence, post: 39152, member: 1722"]Could you then reply why revelation talks specifically of a thousand year reign? I don't speak against the catechism I would just want to know how we can explain away the possibility of a thousand year reign?[/quote] As the rest of the forum will probably put a warrant out for my arrest if I discuss this again here, can I point you to my website in which I have posted several articles about the correct understanding of the thousand years! I would be more than happy to get a discussion going there. God Bless www.divinemercypopes.com
First of all Stephen your definition of "millenarianism" is not the Catechism's definition. No further discussion is needed. Just read the Catechism! Second of all Our Lady never says there is no millenium; she does not contradict the Revelation!When Jesus comes in His Second Coming according to the Catechism is the Final Judgement.But the scripture also talks of a Final Accounting after the Reign of His Return. The Revelation and all the prophets speak of God Living with men in a Kingdom. Our Lord is NEVER spiritual without being PHYSICAL. HE IS GOD AND MAN FOREVER!
Just to clarify, I spoke with two cardinal members of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. Both confirmed the idea that a future temporal Kingdom based on rev 20 is out of the question. The Kingdom of Christ is here and now and has been for 2 thousand years. In the Gospel when the Jews wanted to make Jesus King he refused and walked away because he didn't want that type of Kingdom. His is an eschatological one, one which will only be revealed after the final defeat of Satan and all evil. If there was a temporal Kingdom on earth before his final coming it would be contradictory to His actions just described above. It would be exactly what the Jews wanted in overthrowing evil (the Romans). His is not a Kingdom of this world. The Lord told us that. This is why we should not expect one .There is not one ounce of the millennium in the Gospels-in fact the parable of the wheat and tares tells us good and evil will grow together until the end of the world. Jesus specifically said don't pull up the weeds yet because you might pull up the wheat with it. What does that mean then if a temporal Kingdom was to come? Its a complete contradiction. Your last two sentences seem to suggest a physical reign of Jesus before the Last Judgment (please correct me If I have misunderstood) if that is the case it is millenarianism in its purest form
There is a period of time when the Lord will return in Glory and reign.He is always perfect God and Perfect Man.There does seem to be a difference between the time of Judgement and the time of accounting as when the jury finds one guilty and when the sentence is handed-out.We are talking of a reign in glory after all his enemies have been defeated.The final end is talked about by Peter when all is burned-up and created anew.
Compendium of the Catechism (approved by Pope Benedict XVI) "133. How does the Lord Jesus now reign? 668-674 680 As the Lord of the cosmos and of history, the Head of his Church, the glorified Christ mysteriously remains on earth where his kingdom is already present in seed and in its beginning in the Church. One day he will return in glory but we do not know the time. Because of this we live in watchful anticipation, praying “Come, Lord” (Revelation 22:20). 134. How will the coming of the Lord in glory happen? 675-677 680 After the final cosmic upheaval of this passing world the glorious coming of Christ will take place. Then will come the definitive triumph of God in the parousia and the Last Judgment. Thus the Kingdom of God will be realized.
Revelation 20,1-6 cannot be explained away.In the Marian Movement book Our Lady says Satan will be locked-up.There is not one thread of evidence that Father Stefano Gobbi ever contradicted the scriptures or Our Lady's inspired words to him.Just what do the words"and when the thousand years are ended" mean to you? When Satan comes again and deceives the nations and they gather for battle sounds mighty historical to me! this is all unimportant. We must be true followers of God Jesus and that is all that counts! God Bless All!
It is not explained away.What Our Lady says in the blue book is that Satan will be defeated forever at the end of this trial, therefore it cannot apply to Rev 20. Fr Gobbi, in an interview in August 1999 said that at the end of the world, it will be totally destroyed. This is not what the Catechism teaches. It will be renewed and transfigured .what I am saying is that Our Lady actually spoke in exactly the same way as the Popes and catechism do ie Antichrist comes soon alongside huge chastisments then the Antichrist and Satan will be defeated forever. At that moment the Second Coming occurs and the new heaven and new earth come. There is no contradiction-only Fr Gobbi's interpretation was completely different to what he was told by Our Lady. As far as the thousand years ended bit, I would say (and this is my understanding so maybe worthless) it refers to the time told in the vision of Leo XIII- a period of time from somewhere around the 20 century until the Lord's return in which Satan is given extended power. This is because people have shown they prefer darkness to the light therefore these times are the fruit of our own sinfulness and desire to build a new tower a Babel www.divinemercypopes.com
As far as the thousand years ended bit, I would say (and this is my understanding so maybe worthless) it refers to the time told in the vision of Leo XIII- a period of time from somewhere around the 20 century until the Lord's return in which Satan is given extended power Yes, that's what I thought you were saying all along, but I don't know that many people are grasping what you are saying here.
