The Vatican Has Fallen

Discussion in 'Church Critique' started by padraig, Dec 31, 2016.

  1. The IRISH....you've gotta LOVE Em! Brothers in arms, in Spirit with the Scottish. The Tribes of Israel at last, will be UNITED!

    braveheart irish scenes - YouTube
     
  2. Whatever

    Whatever Powers

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    No. Because it's the truth. Jesus is the source and summit of our Faith and the Blessed Eucharist is Jesus.
     
  3. BrianK

    BrianK Powers Staff Member

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    It’s not theologically “problematic” per se, just exceedingly weak in expressing a truly profound and awe inspiring central reality IMO.

    I just don’t think it’s an improvement on any pre VII expressions of this pivotal reality in any way whatsoever.
     
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  4. "For assuredly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, one jot or one tittle will by no means pass from the law till all is fulfilled." Matt. 5:8

    As the cup of abominations fills to over-flowing, the Cup of Salvation clinks with it, out-pouring.
     
  5. Whatever

    Whatever Powers

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    His concerns would sound more genuine had he added a mea culpa or ten.
     
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  6. His countenance betrays the wickedness within.
     
  7. Speaking of mea culpas...the culpas runneth over! Those Irish, again, the Chief Inspectors ever uncovering the source of sin.


    Minute 2:12 on the surveillance screen...is that La Palma..rend in twain?
     
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  8. AED

    AED Powers

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    Magnum Mysterium. That was the Name in medieval times. It is a phrase full of grandeur and awe.
     
  9. DeGaulle

    DeGaulle Powers

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    I think the main weakness of the phrase 'Source and Summit' is that it's too abstract and impersonal. Our God is primarily Personal. Before everything, the Trinity Is. Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity is indicative of a Person and His Personal Sacrifice. The former phrase is True, but more in an Aristotelian Sense; the latter is The Way, The Truth and The Life. Maybe too much Philosophy and Theology, and not enough humble prayer went into that formula.
     
  10. Adoremus

    Adoremus Powers

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    What were some of the pre VII expressions?

    I'll never forget being at one of these diocesan "listening process" meetings (never again, BTW) where one elderly woman asked "is mass really the be all and end all of our faith?":eek: It occurred to me that Source and Summit is a pretty close approximation of be all and end all. But then, if the average Catholic can no longer even grasp that concept in simple terms, things have gone very far awry.
     
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  11. BrianK

    BrianK Powers Staff Member

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    The Vatican version of the phrase, out of VII’s Lumen gentium 11, is “fount and apex.”

    “Fount and apex” is certainly better phraseology than “source and summit”, which seems underwhelming and trite, IMO.

    But it still is nothing compared to “Magnum mysterium”!!
     
  12. BrianK

    BrianK Powers Staff Member

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    Perfect!
     
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  13. Mario

    Mario Powers

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    Yes, I believe that too, though we must remember this Synod actually encompasses three annual synods culminating in the fall of 2023.

    Safe in the Refuge of the Immaculate Heart!
     
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  14. maryrose

    maryrose Powers

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    When at Adoration this morning the thought came to me that Jesus was an observant Jew who prayed the psalms devoutly, went up to Jerusalem to celebrate the holy festivals and attended the synagogue singing the holy psalms. His disciples did the same except they met in their homes for the breaking of bread in remembrance of Jesus just as He had requested. They didn't see themselves initially as separate. The Jewish authorities viewed them with suspicion and eventually expelled them from the temple. You could call it a schism. This is the place where we are now. The TLM is being gradually pushed out also clergy who refuse to compromise on homosexuality, adultery, abortion, contraception etc. The Jewish leaders of the day believed that God's promises to His people were for them but God's promises went with those who had been expelled. The official Church left them but God was with his remnant. That's how it will be now. The official Church will leave us but God's promise to defend his church against the gates of Hell will be with us the remnant.
     
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  15. Clare A

    Clare A Powers

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    This is how a Pope should sound (and look). Oh how I miss him.

     
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  16. Luan Ribeiro

    Luan Ribeiro Powers

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    I think that if synodality applies to the liturgy we can have dioceses celebrating sacrilegious Masses and others becoming a refuge from the traditional liturgy.
     
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  17. Jason Fernando

    Jason Fernando Powers

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    Pope Francis says EVERYONE IS SAVED: More Heresy - Dr. Taylor Marshall Podcast
     
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  18. AED

    AED Powers

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    Maryrose I believe Our Lord showed that to you. So clear and simple. And so true.
     
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  19. Beth B

    Beth B Beth Marie

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    Exactly! Mine too!
     
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  20. Muzhik

    Muzhik Powers

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    Which brings an interesting question re: "valid matter". The host is supposed to be made of pure wheat flour and water only -- no flavorings or additives beyond what is needed to preserve the bread, so long as it does not change the nature of the bread.

    There is currently a fungus, a rust, spreading worldwide that is decimating wheat crops: UG99, discovered in Uganda in 1999. There is currently no effective treatment and no way to prevent its spread other than by burning affected fields and rigorous checks on imported grain. One method that is being investigated is to try to genetically alter wheat to have some characteristics of rye, which is resistant to wheat rust. IOW, genetic modification.

    My question is if such modified wheat would qualify as valid matter for making the host?
     
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