Wars and rumors of wars on the TLM and Summorum Pontificum”?

I'm beginning to realise that it was used to marginalise lovers of the TLM from early on. When the changes in the liturgy were first introduced we still had the old altars and the difference wasn't so striking and reverent Masses were the norm. We still had ad orientem, altar rails and Communion on the tongue. Protesters did appear to be making a fuss about what seemed to be sensible changes. They got the extremist label and by the time the changes were fully implemented, most people just accepted them. Anyone with reservations probably didn't want to be seen as an extremist opposed to the Council and the Pope. Very few people would have known that the Council didn't intend for all the Mass to be in the vernacular or that it be offered versus populum. I think that many priests may not have realised that some changes went too far.

I do think that some TLM supporters are OTT in their criticisms of the NO but the vast majority are people like Purple Flower who simply love the old Mass because they find it more spiritually beneficial.

 

Agree.

 

If current problems in the Middle East have to deal with Islam, and religion plays a part in the perennial conflict in Israel/Palestine.

Then, maybe one should look at Europe; 2 World Wars. The supreme followers of the Latin Mass can blame that on Novus Ordo too, I suppose.

Lots of stone throwing happens, how does one fit Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany in this, two countries with large Catholic populations. Might as well be narrow-minded as well.

 

We had very holy Popes during the two world wars. Our Lady at Fatima in 1917 warned about what would happen if we did not heed her warnings. You are making some really egregious statements about the Holy Mass on Our Lady's Forum, an orthodox Catholic forum.

 

Are you saying that the world wars were because of the Mass? I am not a theologian, but did you know that Pope Leo XIII experienced a locution after Mass wherein he heard Lucifer ask the Lord for permission to attack the Church for 100 years? The Lord granted that. History has shown that. In Scripture, satan offered Jesus (in the desert) his whole kingdom of the world if Jesus would bow down and serve him. Jesus has said that His Kingdom, that is the Kingdom of God, is not of this world. There will be wars and rumors of wars.......
The rot in society began in the Garden of Eden.

 

ND professor addresses Pope Benedict and Buddhism - Irish Rover

A Straight Shot of Politics: This Is An Emergency Post

Cardinal Ratzinger may have referred to Buddhism as "Godless Self-Absorption", I'm finding it hard to find the exact quotes. As said before, if one goes to many Buddhist Temples, finding a real reverence is not difficult there as well.

I think we can reflect on that.

Better to feed the poor in my view, no matter how much one tears into current Catholicism, a lot of people who would go hungry are fed and some are fed but probably not that many, by the Traditionalists, Father Altier being a prime example.

And actually, Buddhists through charity feed many as well.

Incense burning, chants, the big statue of Buddha or Quan Shih Yin, a bit like Our Lady of Lavang (if not being the same)... easy to find reverence as well. Scrolls as old as the ages.

 

There is no salvation outside the Catholic Church. It's in the Catechism.

 

Don't stop there. You left out the Boxer rebellion, the Great Depression, the San Francisco earthquake, Bonnie & Clyde, Al Capone, apartheid in South Africa, and the Vietnam war. May as well throw in the sinking of the Titanic as well as the Kennedy and MLK assassinations in case they would be useful in supporting your argument on whatever you think this thread is about.

 

What is this thread about? Some crazy statements being bandied about. What is goinģ on?

 

By all means, name people then, "crazy statements" so be it.

I really appreciate the Christian attitude of helping our fellowman.

What's this thread about? "Self-absorption" as Pope Benedict once said mainly.

 

Please give an example of where any follower of the Latin Mass blamed the world wars upon a rite that didn't come into existence until after them. Fascism and Nazism were atheistic anti-Christian movements. Such movements were unheard of throughout many centuries of European history until the onset of the anti-Christian, and more emphatically anti-Catholic, 'Enlightenment'.

It is currently common to blame Catholicism for all the ills of the world, such as denying the people of the Americas the opportunity of being butchered by such as the Aztecs and Incas. We have enough of that without seeing it perpetrated here.

Do you accept the Nicean Creed?

 

Hoo boy, now that we are getting you holier than thou trads and your pesky Latin Mass out of the way (and your little dog Toto, too), we can really get rolling on the agenda: https://newwalden.org/archives/30267

"...very big news if true. Italian journalist Marco Tosatti reports that sources at the Vatican are telling him that the pope is now pushing for intercommunion:

Dear friends and enemies . . . , a friend from inside the Vatican Walls tells us – and naturally the news still needs to be verified – that the reigning Pontiff wants to return to concerning himself with Intercommunion, that is, making it possible for the faithful of other non-Catholic Christian confessions to participate in the Eucharist."

 

You've defined an ad hom attack. I will not say one more thing.

I've saved 3 lives in my life, people dying from carbon monoxide poisoning, I will put that against anything someone insults others by.

 

I do not get where all this, (and excuse me if I'm wrong but what seems to me) anger towards the Catholic Church and Catholics/ Christians is coming from.

If someone does not see a difference in a Buddhist Ceremony and a Catholic Mass (regardless of whether NO or TLM), I'm concerned.
I'm sure the Canaanite Priests were very reverent in their services to Baal.
But I'm sure God was not pleased with the service.

 

You are right Anachal. The Church magisterium is very clear on this. Such ceremonies are a serious grave violation if the first commandment.

 

.

New liturgy coming.