Creation or Evolution theories

We are obliged by faith to hold that Adam and Eve are two real historical persons. If there was no Adam, then:
a. there would be no original sin
b. we would not be in a fallen state
c. we would not need Baptism
d. we would not need to be reconciled to God by Christ
e. the Immaculate Conception, which preserved Mary from original sin, would be meaningless, null, and void.
Therefore, we must hold that both Adam and Eve existed as real historical persons, regardless of the assertions of any field of science. Furthermore, the dogmas taught by the Council of Trent explicitly require belief in Adam as the source of original sin, which we all inherit from him. So a denial of the historical existence of Adam and Eve implies a denial of several dogmas, indirectly.

 

???? I am not trying to start an argument.. and why again??? Where did that come from? It was the line where you said he is probably not there to listen to God and to try to find clues re creation.

That was wrong. I was pointing this out, I thought that you may have not realized what you were saying, but obviously you did. Now you have just accused me of starting an argument when I am simply discussing or pointing something out?

 

I would like that 600 times if I could Sunburst.

 

The Church has said that there is nothing against faith or morals in M.V.'s writings. The reason it was on the 'forbidden book list' (along with St. Faustina's writings) was because they got paperwork in late. PERIOD! (and if you want to know more, do a search on Maria Valtorta on the thread and I have researched it to death. My late spiritual father Bishop Roman Danylak read it backwards and forwards and used to recommend it as a penance in confession!) Now, as I understand it, the writings of Anne Catherine Emmerich have not been approved as mystical, only her life has been proved to be virtuous and worthy of immolation, which is why she became Blessed (Beatified).

 

I can't answer for Maria Valtora as my research hasn't been that thorough. Personally I keep away from her.

With regards to Catherine Emmerich being declared blessed, this would be stating that she was a good honest person yes, and therefore we can believe that she feels her locutions etc to be good and true. Also, I don't think she would have been declared blessed if there was any serious controversy over her visions?

 

Wrong. When it comes to locutions and visions these are taken into consideration LAST. There have been MANY saints and blesseds who have writings that were not even included in their 'review' of their sanctity and virtue. We cannot assume that. The Church does not.

 

But to endorse a saint would lead one to believe that they were free to believe and read their writings? There is much controversy over all these things.. I need a notebook, a pen and an interview with my parish priest.

 

I believe this. But this leaves us in a dilemma with regard to evolutionary theory - who were the 'parents' of Adam & Eve'?

And there is a genealogy of Jesus in Chapter 3 of Luke's gospel through Joseph who was the son of --- who was the son of -----

the son of Seth,
the son of Adam,
the son of God.
If we take the generations given it adds to over 70 generations or so.

 

Seth was the third child of Adam and Eve. They went on to have him after Cain and Abel, he was the one that carried on God's promise and blessing to future generations.

Adam and Eve didn't have any parents. Adam means first male. He was the first person that God made. R.C.I.A is based on this, all the other stories of salvation and the blessings being carried on from generation to generation only makes sense after the fall of Adam and Eve. Before they fell the world was perfect. No sickness, No suffering etc..

Can you imagine hearing God in the garden? How amazing. It is very sad, as they were in full knowledge of God and saw Him as He was/is.. How sad.. We lost all of that ..

 

FROM THE USCCB WEBSITE- SCRIPTURE --GENESIS 6 Origin of the Nephilim.*

1​

When human beings began to grow numerous on the earth and daughters were born to them,

2​

the sons of God* saw how beautiful the daughters of human beings were, and so they took for their wives whomever they pleased.a

3​

Then the LORD said: My spirit shall not remain in human beings forever, because they are only flesh. Their days shall comprise one hundred and twenty years.

4​

The Nephilim appeared on earth in those days, as well as later,* after the sons of God had intercourse with the daughters of human beings, who bore them sons. They were the heroes of old, the men of renown.b
Warning of the Flood.

5​

* When the LORD saw how great the wickedness of human beings was on earth, and how every desire that their heart conceived was always nothing but evil,c

6​

the LORD regretted making human beings on the earth, and his heart was grieved.*

7​

So the LORD said: I will wipe out from the earth the human beings I have created, and not only the human beings, but also the animals and the crawling things and the birds of the air, for I regret that I made them.*

8​

But Noah found favor with the LORD.

9​

These are the descendants of Noah. Noah was a righteous man and blameless in his generation;d Noah walked with God.

10​

Noah begot three sons: Shem, Ham, and Japheth.

11​

But the earth was corrupt* in the view of God and full of lawlessness.e

12​

When God saw how corrupt the earth had become, since all mortals had corrupted their ways on earth,f

13​

God said to Noah: I see that the end of all mortals has come, for the earth is full of lawlessness because of them. So I am going to destroy them with the earth.g
Preparation for the Flood.

14​

Make yourself an ark of gopherwood,* equip the ark with various compartments, and cover it inside and out with pitch.

15​

This is how you shall build it: the length of the ark will be three hundred cubits, its width fifty cubits, and its height thirty cubits.*

16​

Make an opening for daylight* and finish the ark a cubit above it. Put the ark’s entrance on its side; you will make it with bottom, second and third decks.

17​

I, on my part, am about to bring the flood waters on the earth, to destroy all creatures under the sky in which there is the breath of life; everything on earth shall perish.h

18​

I will establish my covenant with you. You shall go into the ark, you and your sons, your wife and your sons’ wives with you.i

19​

Of all living creatures you shall bring two of every kind into the ark, one male and one female*, to keep them alive along with you.

20​

Of every kind of bird, of every kind of animal, and of every kind of thing that crawls on the ground, two of each will come to you, that you may keep them alive.

21​

Moreover, you are to provide yourself with all the food that is to be eaten, and store it away, that it may serve as provisions for you and for them.

22​

Noah complied; he did just as God had commanded him.*
EXPLANATION ON NEXT LINE....

 

Did you know that every Patriarch had an EVE? Adam, Noah, Abraham, Isaiah, Jacob etc. These were the 'types' of Mary that came before the actual person of Mary....However, traditionally Noah's Eve is never described...so the EVE to Noah is 'WISDOM' (his heart)....

I found this to be beautiful and so full of God's grace!

 

What happened to the Sons of God and what are they now? and where?

( forgive me my ignorance, I am not well aquainted with Old Testament)

 

The bad ones are now demons and the good ones remained angels of God

 

Does it mean that at the beginning point Angels were marrying human women and had children with them? the ones which were giants?


When human beings began to grow numerous on the earth and daughters were born to them,

2​

the sons of God

3​

Then the LORD said: My spirit shall not remain in human beings forever, because they are only flesh. Their days shall comprise one hundred and twenty years.

4​

The Nephilim appeared on earth in those days, as well as later,* after the sons of God had intercourse with the daughters of human beings, who bore them sons. They were the heroes of old, the men of renown.b

 

Dear Carmel,

I have some studies in Theology. I have read with interest the Bible several times and I have never said, as you repeatedly mention, that I "do not want to read the Bible". But I thing you are missing the point here. The Church teaches that God made everything from nothing but it does not say how. The creationist believe that God created every single species separately. Well, that is not even written in the Bible that said that God made everything but not how He did it.

 

Sarah was a nightmare, I saw her as an awful woman to be honest.

 

Mary's Child,

You understand! And no, I had to leave because I cannot be the whole day answering posts.

 

There are many things that we will not know for sure until we die, and this and probably the very beginnings of creation are some of those things.

 

And one and the same dog.

 

As far as I know the writings of Maria Valtorta were in the index until 1966. This is exactly when the index was abolished and the writings could be read.