Yes, I agree, the Mother of God is never wrong. The question is, who is appearing in Medjugorje, the Mother of God or something else? The messages appear a bit fluffy, in contrast to Our Lady's approved warnings at Quito, Fatima, Akita, and La Salette. I would trust the Saints more than the questionable messages from Medjugorje, and what comes out of the Vatican after Pope Benedict went into exile. This would keep us on the safe side.
I take a more open attitude towards not-yet-approved apparitions though the vast majority of those are probably products of the subconscious or private musings or worse. But I think those like yourself and others who take a more cautious stance bring a sort of balance to the forum and therefore make an invaluable contribution. You help us avoid going overboard and concentrating too much on what is not essential. I believe in Medjugorje and Garabandal but since they contain secrets to be revealed time will tell if they are credible. But the apparitions you mention are certainly among the most extraordinary, most credible manifestations of Heaven ever recorded.
Totally agree Blizzard!! Taking a "do or die" stance on any of the apparitions talked about on this forum...whether that position is staunchly pro or staunchly con is just plain foolish! What is forbidden by the church today ...may not be so in the future. Padre Pio is a perfect example....as is St Faustina and the Divine Mercy. There are many more, formerly condemned.... then whole heartily embraced seers/apparitions...scattered through out the history of the Church. To insist that you are correct in your position is erroneous ...no mater how many "facts" that you have to back up your stance. Here today...gone tomorrow. Besides the obvious reasoning here about how we should approach particular seers/apparitions..there's the heavy demonic influence evident in these troubling times . We have been told over and over...THERE WILL BE CONFUSION! in those dark days! I have to admit after reading almost all the well researched.... apparently solid facts supporting both sides of the apparitions discussed on this thread.... I'm more confused than ever???? I have taken... and continue to take a "back off ....wait and see" mind set regarding these topics. As Blizzard stated ...these apparitions,etc. are not "essential" to the growth of our own personal Faith. There's PLENTY of available material for us to use for that purpose . So I say to my fellow travelers on the road to Heaven... Back off!! Be at peace with the knowledge of how and what to do that you already have and.... leave the rest alone!! I think I should have posted this in another thread. However....If the shoe fits....
The problem with that, Ellen, is that your viewpoint takes away the group’s right to know where the Church stands, and to go through the process of discernment. Going through the process of discernment is given to the Church, especially the hierarchy, but also the laity. You said yourself that things can change over time. Well, we only have right now. Sufficient unto the day is the troubles thereof. It’s a process! There’s nothing wrong with your choice to wait and see, it’s just not for everyone. You can choose to avoid threads that make you want to say”back off.”
I was reading a funny thing today, which made me smile. Mother Marianna and Brother Pedro (who carved the statue) were missing but the nuns found them levitating high above the ground in ecstasy after having just seen a vision of Our Lady. The nuns brought a ladder and tried to wake Mother Marianna up by pulling her habit, But without success, So they closed the doors and left hem both to it. I wish to goodness I had been there. So beautiful.
This is not usually the way such approval works. Approval of such phenomena is farmed out to the local Diocesan (the Bishop of the local Diocese) who approves or disapproves such phenomena. In the case of Medugorje the Vatican took these powers into their own hands, but this is very,very exceptional indeed. It is nearly always the local Bishop who takes care of things, that is the way the Church works. As Regards the position of the local Archbishop (Diocesan) please see PDF, I believe it is self explanatory: https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/1...ionofMarianSanctuary.pdf?10811914710553614168
Maybe so HH .... the laity may have a right to engage in such activities as you suggest ....but what I have seen posted here by participants in that "process" is far from "discernment" . It appears to be a battle of wills more than the unveiling of the truth . Why isn't it sufficient to wait and see what the Church decides??? The reason I avoid these threads is because... for me to engage in these postings would not only be sinful ...my anger and pride would take over and then I'm doomed! Not only that....the time I would spend online searching for "back up" material would be precious time taken away from the vastly more pressing " spiritual battle" that is now taking place in the world!! My time is better spent praying the rosary than engaging in this( small in comparison) "process of discernment"! And with that .... I'm "backing out"!!
I understand what you are saying. But it’s up to each individual to decide how to approach the situation. It seems to be a battle of wills because people have strong feelings. I don’t blame you for backing out. The Bible condemns factions, but without people speaking up and posting the Church’s decisions , those threads would be outside of the Church’s rulings. People are, really, not supposed to go online and publish Luisa’s writings. You are correct in asking: why isn’t it sufficient to wait to see what the Church decides. Except there are people who don’t wait. Not just here. Read what St Paul says in Galatians 5:20 I can’t link from here
“but if the source is God, you will not be able to overthrow them; or else you may even be found fighting against God.” Acts 5:39
Yes, but the local Bishop has the authority to rule, and the Bishop of Trani has ruled that no one can publish Luisa’s writings. That includes online. Plus, it is ruled that prayer groups should be under the jurisdiction of the Bishop. That’s the official Church standing. We owe obedience to that.
I would say unapproved apparitions and messages should be considered with great care. It is not foolish to dismiss them entirely. The Church's stance on private revelation is that even approved apparitions do not represent dogma, although I personally do follow approved apparitions such as Quito, Akita, Fatima. But I think with her stance on private revalation, our Holy Church is trying to protect us from sliding down a slippery slope, the Church is recommending a conservative approach to prophecy, limited to what she has tested thoroughly and approved. We are not in that position to judge, it is the local Bishop's authority. Yes, most prophecy such as Divine Mercy by St. Faustina has been approved years later. But we are simply not in the position to judge apparitions. We would be taking a great risk in following unapproved messages because the devil is behind most of them, that is apparently how he likes to mislead the devout (the wordly, he misleads them differently of course, with money, sex, power, etc.). Statisics show that only a handful of apparitions turn out to be approved, so we can assume the devil is behind most unapproved prophecy. We are risking our soul by following unapproved apparitions. Take for example Medjugorje: The messages appear soft, in stark contrast to the warnings of our Lady at Quito, Akita, Fatima, La Salette. The liturgy in Medjugorje is strictly Novus Ordo. What if reality is not soft? What if many people do in fact go to hell? What if modernism is indeed a heresy (as has been officially declared by the Church), what if the purpose of the change in liturgy after Vatican II was precisely to convey a softness, which may actually be dangerous for the soul? The fact that time after time the local Yugoslav Bishops have not approved Medjugorje speaks volumes. Pope Benedict appointed a commission to revisit Medjugorje, but fled from the wolves before their work was completed. The commission's report was published under Pope Francis, which could trigger a mental reservation. Pope Francis has apparently approved the first Medjugorje apparitions but at the same time dismissed the whole thing of Medjugorje by saying Our Lady is not a radio station who constantly talks. So he is sowing confusion, catering to all sides. That is what he often tends to do, isn't it? Personally, I agree with his latter point, Our Lady is not a radio station. How succint are Her approved messages of Akita and Fatima, Quito, La Salette! How strong are Her warnings! No words of "my dear children", and "thank you for having listened to my call". In kindness, with charity, may God bless you all and this wonderful forum. Keeping the members and their families in my Rosaries.
Pray the rosary daily. There are 15 Promises which Heaven has attached to those who pray it. That is the truth. Our Lady promised that the rosary will defeat heresy. That’s the third promise, I think. And I know Ellen prays a lot of rosaries.
Quito apparitions were approved by almost every local Bishop in succession. There is probably no apparition with more approval. And the Vatican didn't even get involved.
One thing I love about authentic apparitions is that the there is a very great deal of very straight talking indeed from Jesus and from Mary. A for instance Mary spoke of a group of nuns and named names saying that they would be going to hell after death for their horrendous goings on. The Bishop at the time of the apparitions Bishop Rivera was a case in point. He appears to have been a devout racist, very uncomfortable with the face that many of his flock were of , 'mixed blood' and also seems to have been something of a Spanish aristocratic snob. It appears also that he was more than a little of a feather blowing in the wind with very little of common sense or discernment. Jesus in an apparition implies that he will escape hell more nor less by the very skin of his teeth. Saved by being a Dominican and learned to say the rosary and agreeing to have to have the statue of Our Lady of Good Success made. When Mother Mariana told him Mary had foretold he was to die in two years time and to get himself set, he shuddered and repeatedly asked for more time on Earth, which was not granted. Jesus warned that, even though saved, he would be burning in Purgatory for a very, very long time indeed. I love this kind of hard edge stuff; where do you ever get it today? The Bishop must have been like a cat on a hot tin roof with all this this. We get far, far too much of sugar sweet and all things nice today. I really, really enjoy a good dose of salt in my reading.
