Taking the Vaccine in Obedience to the Church

A friend of mine ( a devout Catholic) who works with the homeless, decided to give in and receive the vaccine due to obedience to the Church. (Although I believe it was because of peer pressure from where he worked). He quoted some old sources as to his decision like the following.
Getting vaccinated against the coronavirus “ought to be understood as an act of charity toward the other members of our community,” the U.S. bishops conference officials said.
and
Pope Francis suggested that people have a moral obligation to receive one of the new coronavirus vaccines as soon as possible, revealing in a new interview that he expects to get his own first dose this week.

"I believe that morally everyone must take the vaccine," the pontiff said in a Jan. 10 interview for Italy's TG5 news program. "It is the moral choice because it is about your life but also the lives of others."

Are more and more Catholics caving in and taking the vaccine before they come out with a vaccine that has no affiliation with aborted fetuses?

I have talked to so many Southern Baptists recently and they are so Adamant about not taking the vaccine. But the reason that they are not taking it is because of the Government telling them to take it and of the health risks (rushed job with out extensive testing), but not because it is morally unethical. 99% of them that I have talked to, don’t even know of the affiliation of the vaccine via aborted cell lines.



https://apnews.com/article/europe-coronavirus-pandemic-vatican-city-pope-francis-476fedf6a30e32c4c3d294027dd3c606

https://www.ncronline.org/news/vati...ave-moral-obligation-take-coronavirus-vaccine

 

Actually, scientists associated with the John Paul II Institute are developing an untainted vaccine that will hopefully be a one-time vaccine like polio. I await that.

Safe in the Refuge of the Immaculate Heart!

 

Oh my, that is distressing to hear. I will pray for your friend to persevere. This is another example of how a false understanding of obedience is as great of a problem in the Church today as disobedience to the true Magisterium. Diabolical disorientation abounds, but we were fairly warned these days would come.

 

Well, I have just had a pre op telephone interview, and thank God was not asked about whither I had the covid injection. It is not a vaccine as one expert explained it is a genetic experiment injection on the general public, and we won't know for up to a year or two whither millions of injected people will die when they are exposed to other virus's, like the animals in the original experiments.

People need to be prepared to consider waiting for a more ethical, moral vaccine to be developed using the traditional minimal exposure in a vaccine to jump start their immune system should they be exposed to the virus. This is what I intend to say should the hospital ask me if I have had the jab.

 

Does the fact that the vaccines don't stop contraction or transmission but only reduce symptoms factor into how taking it helps others?

 

Yep, and consider that people are actually thinking they are vaccinated but instead received an experimental gene therapy, with unknown results of what that entails down the road. Prayers for clarity and fortitude for all those faced with having to make a choice amidst pressures from jobs, family, governments and more prayers for those who will undergo persecution for the choices they make.

 

Excellent point.

It is possible that many of those who take the vaccine become asymptomatic carriers!

 

Catholics owe obedience to the magisterium only in matters of faith and morals.

When Church leaders try to comment on prudential medical/scientific issues or decisions for which they have no competence, or for which they’re just blatantly wrong - like this gene therapy treatment (NOT a vaccine) - we owe them in conscience no level of “obedience” whatsoever.

The Church cannot bind anyone’s conscience over a purely experimental and frankly mortally dangerous treatment such as this.

 

Hey Brian,

You're quoting a post I deleted earlier. I wanted to do more research on vaccines before posting.

My post--now only existing in relation to your post--was aimed at what I see as a very dangerous trend of deciding for ourselves that there is a True Magisterium, and that if we decide on our own that something violates our idea of True Magisterium, we can safely ignore it.

My understand has always been that we need to show great respect and seriously consider the point of view of the Church when it has spoken. Only in unusual cases, after serious consideration, and with an honest investigation of an issue, should we make a judgment to ignore the Church's guidance. For myself, I would discuss this matter with an orthodox priest whom I trust.

I also placed my remarks in the context of private revelation, which is where I see most diabolical distortion going on these days, and the most disobedience among the faithful. If one were to quote an unapproved seer as warning against a vaccine, that would not, in my view, constitute the very serious grounds one ought to have for rejecting Church guidance.

Edited to add: I mention private revelation because that's where I've seen the notion of "True Magisterium" raised.

The whole vaccine debate touches on morals and obligations to others. Rejection/acceptance should not be an easy call.

 

What makes you think we haven’t done all of the above already?

I’m a surgeon and I’ve been researching all these issues ad nauseum. I know more about the subject that most priests, given my medical and pro life background.

Churchmen have no more credibility in addressing prudential decisions regarding medical and scientific issues than well educated laymen. In fact, they have a positive duty to inform themselves of the knowledge of competent laity in matters on which they don’t naturally have competence.

If this were a traditional vaccine like the tetanus vaccine, yes, we should give their opinion on the subject greater weight.

But it’s not.

It is a purely experimental gene therapy, not a vaccine, that does not have human trials or FDA approval to justify making recourse to medical treatment tainted by the use of fetal stem cell lines in the development, production and/or testing of those medications.

Please stop implying that this in any way represents “obedience” to the “magisterium.”

It does not in any way, and you risk leading astray MOG members and lurkers.

 

The point that Brian makes is a valid one, imho. For one thing, these vaccines and/or genetic manipulation are unknowns right now. No one knows how they will act on the human body in the long run. My body is a temple of the Holy Spirit. Once I put an unknown quantity inside it , it can’t be removed. I’m listening to that fact right now.
I had a bad experience a few years back when I needed a tetanus booster. I specifically asked for the one that was not derived from aborted fetal tissue. I’m pretty sure I received the dose of the one that was. It said it on a paper I received. I’m not going through that agony again. I’m just not.

 

I never said you or anyone else haven't done their homework. Or that your or anyone else haven't made an informed decision. I said an informed decision was necessary before making a decision to reject Church advice. That's a comment on process. It doesn't address the facts of this particular situation. Two different areas.

I believe we have an ordinary duty to respect guidance issued by the Church in documents below magisterial level. We need to have some reasonable grounds for rejection. That was the point.

FWIW, I am sure you made the right/moral decision. Right on the facts.

I also told you I previously deleted that post.
.

 

AMEN Brian!

 

The factor is when enough people get the injection for covid (it is not a vaccine), it is experimental gene therapy; then those who do not want the injection will no doubt be shamed in the hope of forced acquieseance. Since it is a political move not a medically sound vaccine, we can expect to be shamed into giving in.

We all need to pray for one another, and ask dear God to direct us in accepting each other regardless of the decision we make.

 

Right, Julia. It is all part of the plan and we are pawns. Yes, we must pray for one another. I do remember the members and their families in my rosaries. God is keeping us informed and enlightened and Blessed Mother is with us every step of the way.

 

Heavenly the same happened to my baby daughter years ago with the chicken pox vaccine. I didn’t know it contained abortive cell lines. She ended up later with atopic dermatitis.

 

How awful. But none of us knew about it when we were having children. I hope she is doing well managing the condition. We can’t blame ourselves for not knowing.

 

Well, what if that Church leader is the pope and he's claiming it's a moral obligation?

That is the really big issue that can't be glossed over. Is the pope justified in his comments about this being a moral issue? How many Catholics worldwide will get the vax because THE POPE said it's a MORAL obligation?

 

I do not consider his personal prudential decision regarding fetal cell line tainted, untested, unproven, not FDA approved and wholly experimental gene therapy from which thousands of people are dying, to be anything beyond his personal uninformed opinion.

No, his opinion on these experimental and mortally dangerous gene therapies is in no way, shape or form “magisterial” or “binding” on our conscience.

 

You are a lot more educated about these matters than probably 98% of Catholics. This forum is much better for having your input.