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You could do the good Christian thing and allow everyone else to get it before you and by the time it's your turn it will be all over

 

Astounding!

 

That's my intention. I'll be under terrible pressure from my family. All my siblings are in the high risk category, some of them extremely high risk. They tell me that I'm high risk too but I'm not convinced. The thought of it gives me a headache and increases the number of cigarettes I smoke (I get enough lectures about that).

 

A crude calculator to assess your possible morbidity if you were to contract the virus....

https://covid19risktools.com:8443/

 

Getting the vaccine does not prevent you from being a spreader of covid.

You still have to wear a mask and socially distance after a vaccine.

 

It is is his opinion. The opinion of a man. He is talking about something he has no expertise in.

He is out of his depth in this area.

It also contradicts reason.

So, it is not even ordinary magisterium.

 

Good questions.

I would imagine having covid gives you a certain immunity for a certain period until the next seasonal virus comes along.

But they will probably suggest you get the vaccine even if you have had covid.

They are vaccine fetishists.

 

Terry, this post is right on the money.

The vaccine is a ruse.

This covid situation is now all about control.

The first stage is well under way - people have lost many of their civil liberties. Many are imprisoned in their own homes. Use of fear.

The vaccine will be used to coerce and control. Use of coercion is a tactic of dictatorship.

When you lose civil liberties they are hard to get back.

There is something of darkness in this whole covid plandemic.

 

I suspect that Corona will wax and wane for some years to come. We will probably see it seeming to disappear at times and then rear it's ugly head again from place to place causing a bit of a panic in those places.
There's more at work here than just a simple cold virus as Garabandal mentioned and it like President Trump scares the hell out of a certain class of people. I believe that the vaccines that are ethical will go to market as a result purely from the self interest of those people to attempt to keep the rest of us from spreading it to them. Most of us have nothing to fear.

 

Well, IF the vaccine prevents you from getting COVID, it prevents you from spreading it.

 

There is a danger here in dismissing out of hand what the Pope says. We as Catholics are obligated to respect the Ordinary Magisteriam, and normally obey.

This does not mean that everything he says is to be considered infallible. He is not speaking Ex Cathredra here. But we are to respect that he is the Vicar of Christ and can not dismiss out of hand what he says about ethical issues.

He mentions that our "obligation" to obtain the vaccine touches on a matter of ethics. We do have a duty generally to gaurd against spreading desease for the common good. In this aspect we need to repect his authority as the Church teaches about the Ordinary Magisterium.

You are correct that he is not an expert in medicine. And in his brief interview, he mentions IF doctors say there are no ill side effects, and IF it doctors say it is effective we would have an ethical duty to take the vaccine.

I wonder how sheltered he is from receiving contradictory advice and evidence from other doctors, and experts. It seems by his comments that he believes there are no possible negitive side effects, which is not the case....
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His comments below...

"According to the transcript, the pope added, “I don’t understand why some say, ‘No, vaccines are dangerous.’ If it is presented by doctors as a thing that can go well, that has no special dangers, why not take it? There is a suicidal denial that I wouldn’t know how to explain.”
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It has been reported that...."Seventeen people have had a ‘life threatening’ reaction to the COVID-19 shot. Two reactions were so bad they led to a ‘permanent disability.’"
https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/c...s-to-er-according-to-us-govt-reporting-system

Also the number of people hospitalized for adverse reactions is already in the hundreds.

If this is the case, then still respecting and taking into account his authority in ethical matters, we could reasonably conclude that a statement by him requiring us to take the vaccine on ethical grounds MIGHT be based on incomplete or inaccurate evidence, and so it would loose it's Magisterial weight.

I am not an anti-vaccine advocate, nor am I lobbying for it. I am still deciding if I will take it. I just want truth and not spin.

 

No, the pope here is wrong in his opinion. One cannot be obligated to cooperate with evil as the current vaccine do.

 

Will the vaccine protect you?
The COVID-19 vaccination will reduce the chance of you suffering from COVID-19 disease. It may take a week or two for your body to build up some protection from the first dose of vaccine.

Like all medicines, no vaccine is completely effective – some people may still get COVID-19 despite having a vaccination, but this should be less severe.

Source:
https://www.gov.uk/government/publi...s/covid-19-vaccination-guide-for-older-adults

Note what it says from the government source - the vaccine only reduces your chance of suffering from covid and some people may still get covid even with the vaccine.

 

How effective is the COVID-19 vaccine?
The 1st dose of the COVID-19 vaccine should give you good protection from coronavirus. But you need to have the 2 doses of the vaccine to give you longer lasting protection.

There is a chance you might still get or spread coronavirus even if you have the vaccine.

This means it is important to:

• continue to follow social distancing guidance
• if you can, wear something that covers your nose and mouth in places where it's hard to stay away from other people

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coron...OP_4Abm-dclQCiZI4bomR4m1Om75LKOEaAuA_EALw_wcB

 

Our pope is pushingting the dictatorship:

“I think ethically that everyone should take the vaccine,” the Pope told Italian journalist Fabio Marchese Ragona in a television interview to be aired Sunday evening. “It should be done.” “It is not an option — ‘I think so, I don’t think so’ — it’s an ethical choice, because you gamble with your health, you gamble with your life, and you gamble with other people’s lives,” the pontiff declared. (source: Spirit Daily)

 

Ok. So some are saying that, despite the origin of some of the stuff in the vaccine, it's up to individual conscience to take the vaccine or not. The Pope says we should take the vaccine to guard our own health and that of others. But, some are saying that because the vaccine is built on the cells of unborn babies (either miscarried or aborted), that it is not morally sound to take the vaccine. Am I getting this right? If I were to catch the COVID virus, I'd probably get really sick and may even die of it because I'm at a higher risk of it than some others. But it also puts me in a dilemma because it may be immoral. So, would someone with some authority help out here? I think I'm more confused than ever.

 

I’m afraid there isn’t going to be much more help than what’s already on this thread. To summarize:

1) Some (like me) think that taking the vaccine is unethical and wrong. Any product that was produced and approved by using a murdered baby’s body parts is an absolute no go from me - regardless if the murder happened 40 years ago or just last week. Sickening to me, and I long for the good old days where Catholics would be repulsed by the very idea of this.

2) Some others say that because it happened so long ago that the cooperation is remote and can be taken for the “greater good”.

The popes comments in an interview are his personal opinion only and carry no magisterial weight in this decision - much like his approval of birth control during the Zika outbreak in a famous plane interview.

People can list the reasons for or against and what they would personally do all day long, but ultimately you are going to have to make the call.

 

An EWTN article (link below) discusses remote vs. material cooperation with evil, and the principle of double effect:

https://www.ewtn.com/vote/moral-cooperation-in-evil.asp

(OT) I read a discussion once about whether using information Nazi doctors had gained through heinous experimentation on prisoners was immoral. Whichever expert had written about it came to the conclusion that using the information was moral, because it could help others, and because we would never again have access to the same sorts of measurements (because no moral person would recreate the experiments).

I thought then how wonderful I would never have to make such difficult moral decisions...
.

 

Ok, the idea I'm getting is that this is a moral decision. If the "abortion" happened over 50 years ago, we didn't participate in it directly. The question, then, is would it still be considered participation in the act by using a vaccine derived from cells from that abortion? My first thought is that these cells are far removed from the event, so I probably wouldn't be considered as taking part in it. But, am I right? I'd like to get the vaccine because I don't want to get the virus. But the vaccine, for the first shot only, is only like 70% effective, or something like that. It takes a second shot for it to get anywhere near full immunity. So, two shots, taken some weeks apart, to get some kind of immunity from a virus I don't want to get because I'm in the higher risk category. Would I still be sinning by taking these two shots? I'm not sure. I don't agree with abortion, although before becoming Catholic I felt it was strictly up to the woman. But that was a misinformed opinion. So, I'm still in a quandary. I guess I'll ask someone I know from Church to see what they say. I don't want to get into trouble over this. But I don't want to get sick either. Geez! What a mess!